Yamaha A-S200 vs Denon PMA-A100

[ACsGreens]

Comparison's?

I would like to see if someone has ever compared the Anthem to the 4311. I know, different uses for each, and obviously different opinions as well. I just don't think that the Denon will have the real power and current of the Anthem. Hey, different folks, different strokes. I take Anthem.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Unfortunately I can't find any measurements on the Anthem225 or Denon4311.

But here is the $1000 Anthem AVR:

"Anthem MRX 300...two channels driving 8-ohm loads...1 percent distortion at 116.3 watts. Into 4 ohms...1 percent distortion at 165.9 watts...THD+N...0.030 percent...Crosstalk was –72.23 decibels left to right and –71.65 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio...was –101.03 dBrA."
Anthem MRX 300 A/V Receiver HT Labs Measures | Home Theater

$2000 Anthem AVR:

" MRX 700...two channels driving 8-ohm loads...1 percent distortion at 160.2 watts. Into 4 ohms...1 percent distortion at 221.0 watts....THD+N...0.023 percent...Crosstalk was –73.01 decibels left to right and –72.06 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio...was –104.67 dBrA."

Anthem MRX 700 A/V Receiver HT Labs Measures | Home Theater

Yamaha $1500 AVR:

"RX-A2000...two channels...1 percent distortion at 189.3 watts. Into 4 ohms...1 percent distortion at 287.4 watts....THD+N...0.006 percent...Crosstalk...was –87.13 dB left to right and –83.44 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio...was –107.68 dBrA."

Yamaha Aventage RX-A2000 A/V Receiver HT Labs Measures | Home Theater

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Denon $900 AVR:
Denon AVR-2311CI A/V Receiver HT Labs Measures | Home Theater

"AVR-2311CI...two channels...8-ohm...1 percent distortion at 154.3 watts. Into 4 ohms...1 percent distortion at 198.8 watts...THD+N...0.005 percent...Crosstalk at 1 kHz driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load was –74.43 decibels left to right and –75.83 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio...–112.12 dBrA"

Denon 4310 (should be like 4311):

"AVR-4310CI...two channels driving 8-ohm loads...179.3 watts. Into 4 ohms...1 percent distortion...258.5 watts....THD+N...0.005%...Crosstalk...–89.37 dB left to right and –87.47 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio...was –112.28 dBrA."

$2000 Anthem AVR:

" MRX 700...two channels driving 8-ohm loads...1 percent distortion at 160.2 watts. Into 4 ohms...1 percent distortion at 221.0 watts....THD+N...0.023 percent...Crosstalk was –73.01 decibels left to right and –72.06 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio...was –104.67 dBrA."

As you can see, even a lowly Denon 2311 has almost the exact same power output as a $2,000 Anthem in 2ch, plus better THD, better crosstalk, and better SNR!

The Denon 4310 beats the $2K Anthem in 2ch power & THD, XTalk, SNR. And so would the 4311.

But no measurements of the $1500 Anthem 225.

 

[Spookyfoot]

No matter how you cut it, spending up to $1500-2500 on a 2ch integrated amp to drive $1500 speakers just does not make sense. If not for any other reason, then for loss of subwoofer crossover management and room correction. Most integrated amps will not have a sub out and if they do, the crossover management will not be nearly as flexable as even the budget surround receivers. (I concede that you are looking for a 2ch setup and not a 2.1 setup, but a sub is advisable none the less.) It does not matter how robust your amp is and with what authority it can plumb the low impedance curves, if your room/layout has introduced severe peaks and dips at the listening location. Taming those peaks and dips will do much more for the speakers/sound than high dollar electronics.

IMHO, if you must stay away from HT Receivers, go for a 2ch pre with a 2ch amp. For example, Emotiva USP-1 and XPA-2. The USP-1 has been reviewed to be an excellent pre with no sound coloring traits and the XPA-2 is a beast of an amp that needs no introduction (at least on AH).

Hope this helps and happy hunting .

I've had a sub connected to my current system for years mainly because I had a pair of CSW M-80 bookshelf speakers for awhile and they definitely needed the sub. Since I replaced them with the KEF's, I don't really need the sub anymore due to the abilities of the Q900's. I'm a bit of a purist (despite utilizing an Olive music server vs. a turntable, lol), so having a sub connected isn't a necessity as long as the speakers can handle the low end which the KEF's have no problem doing. IMO the Q-900's can definitely compete with speakers much more expensive than their price point and are a tremendous performer.

As for the amp search...
I wouldn't say all integrated amps sound better than separates by any means, which is why I am considering the Denon, Yamaha & Anthem only at this point. All 3 of these units appear to be on the high end of integrated amps and some of the reviews I've read online specifically point out that they have outperformed many separates that have been tested before them. I don't want a ton of gear on display and want it to be clean and simple. So I'm leaning toward the route of an integrated amp to keep it to one unit, instead of adding more components. I already have 2 Sony 400 disc mega changers, the Olive and the DAC-Magic taking up shelf space.

I had a chance to hear the Anthem 225 on Saturday in Toledo driving a pair of Klipsch RF-7's and I was very impressed. I want to check out the Yamaha A-S2000 this weekend. There's a review on another audio blog that compares the Yamaha directly to the Anthem and the Yamaha outperformed the Anthem according to the review, so I want to seek it out and hear it for myself since I really liked the Anthem.

Thanks to everyone's advice, it's very helpful as I evaluate and research these amps!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

OK, if I were to pick one of those as the most "capable", I would choose the Denon since it is the only one I know that has been tested to be stable into 2 ohm (Audio Critic's PMA-2000). The Denon is also the only one that "double down" 80wpc-->160wpc.

Anthem 225 is 225wpc 8ohm/4 ohm stable /? RMS WPC 4ohm/ ? 2 ohm stable.

The Denon is 80wpc 8ohm/160wpc 4ohm/2 ohm stable (The Audio Critic's review of the PMA-2000).

The Yamaha is 90wpc 8ohm/? WPC 4ohm/ ? 2 ohm stable.

But, if the Anthem is $1500 and the Denon is $2500, and since the Q900 is easy enough to drive and is not a 2ohm speaker, I would have to go with Anthem.

 

[Spookyfoot]

OK, if I were to pick one of those as the most "capable", I would choose the Denon since it is the only one I know that has been tested to be stable into 2 ohm (Audio Critic's PMA-2000). The Denon is also the only one that "double down" 80wpc-->160wpc.

Anthem 225 is 225wpc 8ohm/4 ohm stable /? RMS WPC 4ohm/ ? 2 ohm stable.

The Denon is 80wpc 8ohm/160wpc 4ohm/2 ohm stable (The Audio Critic's review of the PMA-2000).

The Yamaha is 90wpc 8ohm/? WPC 4ohm/ ? 2 ohm stable.

But, if the Anthem is $1500 and the Denon is $2500, and since the Q900 is easy enough to drive and is not a 2ohm speaker, I would have to go with Anthem.

An advantage of the Denon & the Yamaha is the ability to bi-wire w/ 4 posts for each speaker on the unit, something the Anthem didn't have. And before everyone on the forum goes beserk about the validity of bi-wiring...I've heard systems where I honestly couldn't tell the difference and some, such as my previous Technics receiver, where it made a definite noticeable difference. So while it's not a deal breaker, I still chalk it up as an advantage as it gives me the choice to at least try it out both ways to see if I hear an improvement.

Big killer so far on the Denon is the price vs the other 2 and I can't track one down to actually hear it in action. And while all of them are very attractive units, I really like the "retro" look of the A-S200.

Hope to hear the Yamaha soon, and the Denon if I could find one.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

An advantage of the Denon & the Yamaha is the ability to bi-wire w/ 4 posts for each speaker on the unit, something the Anthem didn't have. And before everyone on the forum goes beserk about the validity of bi-wiring...I've heard systems where I honestly couldn't tell the difference and some, such as my previous Technics receiver, where it made a definite noticeable difference. So while it's not a deal breaker, I still chalk it up as an advantage as it gives me the choice to at least try it out both ways to see if I hear an improvement.

Big killer so far on the Denon is the price vs the other 2 and I can't track one down to actually hear it in action. And while all of them are very attractive units, I really like the "retro" look of the A-S200.

Hope to hear the Yamaha soon, and the Denon if I could find one.

When you are paying that much money for a preamp, I believe you have every right to want those features.

Have you considered the Denon PMA-2000R used? Back then I paid about $700 each used.

Or any of these IAs used?

I would never buy another used AVR or pre-pro because of their complexity. But these analog
integrated amps seem simple and a lot more reliable.

Or what about Cambridge Audio?

Amazon.com: Cambridge Audio Azur 840A Integrated Amplifier - black: Electronics

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CA840AV2

 

[Spookyfoot]

When you are paying that much money for a preamp, I believe you have every right to want those features.

Have you considered the Denon PMA-2000R used? Back then I paid about $700 each used.

Or any of these IAs used?

I would never buy another used AVR or pre-pro because of their complexity. But these analog
integrated amps seem simple and a lot more reliable.

Or what about Cambridge Audio?

Amazon.com: Cambridge Audio Azur 840A Integrated Amplifier - black: Electronics

Cambridge Audio - 840AV2 - Integrated Amplifier-Audio Advisor

Thanks for the suggestions! Unfortunately, I'm very leery of used equipment. I have no reason to be but I just am. I've never known anyone who has purchased used equipment and what their experience was like with it so it's unexplored territory for me.

I will have to read up on the Cambridge Audio IA. I do enjoy my DAC-Magic and feel for the price it was money well spent (It warmed up the sound coming from my Olive a bit).

Again, thanks for all your suggestions - I appreciate it!

 

[Spookyfoot]

OK, if I were to pick one of those as the most "capable", I would choose the Denon since it is the only one I know that has been tested to be stable into 2 ohm (Audio Critic's PMA-2000). The Denon is also the only one that "double down" 80wpc-->160wpc.

Anthem 225 is 225wpc 8ohm/4 ohm stable /? RMS WPC 4ohm/ ? 2 ohm stable.

The Denon is 80wpc 8ohm/160wpc 4ohm/2 ohm stable (The Audio Critic's review of the PMA-2000).

The Yamaha is 90wpc 8ohm/? WPC 4ohm/ ? 2 ohm stable.

But, if the Anthem is $1500 and the Denon is $2500, and since the Q900 is easy enough to drive and is not a 2ohm speaker, I would have to go with Anthem.

Here is the direct comparison between the Denon PMA-2000 & the Yamaha A-S2000

The Denon is 80wpc 8ohm/160wpc 4ohm/2 ohm stable

The Yamaha is 90 wpc 8ohm /150 wpc 4ohm/220 W 2ohm (dynamic power)

 

[Spookyfoot]

Actually, I just went to Denon's site to review the specs again for the PMA-A100 and it lists it as discontinued? I guess that removes that particular model as a contender

 

[slipperybidness]

Thanks for the suggestions! Unfortunately, I'm very leery of used equipment. I have no reason to be but I just am. I've never known anyone who has purchased used equipment and what their experience was like with it so it's unexplored territory for me.

I will have to read up on the Cambridge Audio IA. I do enjoy my DAC-Magic and feel for the price it was money well spent (It warmed up the sound coming from my Olive a bit).

Again, thanks for all your suggestions - I appreciate it!

Being leery is good, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't consider good used equipment. The key is to get it from a trusted source or one that has buyer protection or a good return policy. Also, you must be ready to check out all the features in a very few days so that you have confidence that it works correctly.

If you are looking at used and you have even 1 red-flag or bit of doubt, then run. If you know what you are looking for and have some checks in place to give you more confidence, then you really can't beat the money savings on used gear. It is just like a car, let the other chumps take the hit for depreciation and then scoop it up when they move to the next new item.

B-stock and used gear with blemishes? My philosophy is "There's plenty more where that came from". Meaning that I will most likely scratch it myself eventually. If it already has a blemish (but sounds great), then oh well. If I put the first scratch on it, then i pout about it

 

[Spookyfoot]

Being leery is good, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't consider good used equipment. The key is to get it from a trusted source or one that has buyer protection or a good return policy. Also, you must be ready to check out all the features in a very few days so that you have confidence that it works correctly.

If you are looking at used and you have even 1 red-flag or bit of doubt, then run. If you know what you are looking for and have some checks in place to give you more confidence, then you really can't beat the money savings on used gear. It is just like a car, let the other chumps take the hit for depreciation and then scoop it up when they move to the next new item.

B-stock and used gear with blemishes? My philosophy is "There's plenty more where that came from". Meaning that I will most likely scratch it myself eventually. If it already has a blemish (but sounds great), then oh well. If I put the first scratch on it, then i pout about it

Great insight, thanks!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Actually, I just went to Denon's site to review the specs again for the PMA-A100 and it lists it as discontinued? I guess that removes that particular model as a contender

I think it's just the PMA-2000 dressed up for their 100th Anniversary. Amazon still has some left, but $2500 is a lot.

What if you could get the PMA-100 brand new for $ 1800 from Authorized dealer ?

Or Yamaha for $1800?

How much were you willing to spend on them?

 

[Spookyfoot]

I think it's just the PMA-2000 dressed up for their 100th Anniversary. Amazon still has some left, but $2500 is a lot.

What if you could get the PMA-100 brand new for $ 1800 from Authorized dealer ?

Or Yamaha for $1800?

How much were you willing to spend on them?

I'm comfortable being under $2k...$2500 is creeping up there. I want to hear them in the coming days and make my decision. I have already given up my receiver and streaming internet radio doesn't compare to a full sound system...I already have it planned it out...whatever I wind up with I'm going to lean back with some Johnny Walker Black, dim the lights and establish the new amp with a spin of Katy Lied from the 'Dan. Nice.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have already given up my receiver and streaming internet radio doesn't compare to a full sound system

I never cared about internet radio or Pandora or any of that stuff either. Most of them are MP3 or lossy.

But streaming lossless audio (WAV, WMA Lossless) sounds great to me. Same as playing from CD.

Only thing I don't like about WAV is that my Denon cannot display any tags on the WAV. I am going to try WMA Lossless today.

Originally I ripped all my CDs to WAV. I'll convert WAV to WMAL and see if I can keep the tags.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I never cared about internet radio or Pandora or any of that stuff either. Most of them are MP3 or lossy.

But streaming lossless audio (WAV, WMA Lossless) sounds great to me. Same as playing from CD.

Only thing I don't like about WAV is that my Denon cannot display any tags on the WAV. I am going to try WMA Lossless today.

Originally I ripped all my CDs to WAV. I'll convert WAV to WMAL and see if I can keep the tags.

I know what : Yes, my next receiver I should pay tipple price to support the Lossless WMA with Tags. The hell with my $100 Netgear box which already supports HD-FLAC (24/96) streaming with tags

 

[Grador]

I didn't even know you could tag a WAV....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I didn't even know you could tag a WAV....

Not tag. I meant info like 48kHz/24bit/WAV, etc.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I know what : Yes, my next receiver I should pay tipple price to support the Lossless WMA with Tags. The hell with my $100 Netgear box which already supports HD-FLAC (24/96) streaming with tags

Don't need to. All five of my Denon can play WMA Lossless with full tags. No problem.

 

[Spookyfoot]

The search is over my friends! I have decided on the Yamaha A-S200. It really had the most overall advantages of the units I was considering...good clean power, sounds incredible, built for bi-wiring with 4 posts for each speaker and trim adjustment for the headphone amp. Thanks again for everyone's input and advice, it's truly appreciated!