Axiom Audio LFR1100 Tower Loudspeaker Preview

[gene]

Axiom is also designing and manufacturing an active DSP flagship speaker for Bryston.

Bryston Loudspeakers

I checked with my contact at Bryston on this, and there is no plans in the immediate future for an Axiom/Bryston speaker partnership. I believe this is just an experiment at this point.

 

[DS-21]

***Also, the frequency range that could most benefit from going cardioid is bass, and yet it's the bass woofers that seem to be lacking rear wave.

I gotta wonder what Axiom had in mind when they made this speaker. It's... odd.

Agreed on both counts.

But Canadians seem to like their bipoles, so...

In much more exciting news on the topic of cardioid, AJ in FLA's new speakers got rave reviews at Axpona last weekend!

I wish I had the weekend off, because I would've loved to pop down and hear AJ's speakers and the KEF Blades.

AJ's speakers are closed box up top, and cardoid (John K-style U-frame, not his earlier and super-cool dipole 18 and adjustable closed-box 12) in the bass where it helps most (as you wrote). That distinguishes it from Gradient's approach in the Revolution and subsequent speakers of putting the mid in a cardoid-ish box as well.

IMO he's a nice-looking stand with some sort of ball-joint adjustment from the most exciting expensive speaker around right now.

AJ said he got requests for distribution in Finland or something like that.

Just as the Canadians seem to love their bipoles, Finns love their cardoids...

lol.

Now if he used HIS choice of amps and cable, they would all be like

"MEH"

Sad but true.

I remember a DIY get-together in ATL a few years ago, maybe 2005. AJ came up from FL with his then-babies, which were a mostly-dipole (monopole tweeter) with a 12" BMS coax and a high-quality 18" woofer powered by an M&K plate amp (surplus from ApexJr, I assume) with sufficient boost to allow the low-FS woofer to actually play fairly low. (Very deep bass output was probably in line with a good closed-box 10).

On a flea-powered triode amp lovingly and expertly hand-crafted by one of the show attendees, it still sounded better than any of the any many 7" Dayton/Seas/ScanSpeak based 2-ways did, but it was hot hot hot up top because it was designed for use with a voltage-source amp.
(Note that I wrote expertly crafted; the design he used was not very good, because it had like half a watt and a low-z output.)

On the lowly mass-market H/K AVR that AJ brought, they were to my ears best sound of the gathering by far to my ears. He knows what he's doing when it comes to crossover design.

 

[ack_bak]

I suspect you would really need the right room placement for these big cabinets. Stick them to close to a wall, and it could really impact the sound.

Personally, I am just not sold on this design, but would like to hear it.

I am just not an Axiom fan.

 

[haraldo]

AJ said he got requests for distribution in Finland ........

People in Finland are crazy
and they will buy these speakers too...

sound from these speakers will probably be a complete mess of room reflections, with lots of out-of-phase energy

 

[scott911]

My grandfather had a pair of bookshelf type speakers- epi or human I think they traded by - that had some rear facing speakers - they actually pointed out at 45 degree from center back plane.

They were wonderful, so I say give 'em a chance.

 

[3db]

Agreed on both counts.

But Canadians seem to like their bipoles, so...

Based on what? Your opinion? It must be so then

 

[agarwalro]

Also, the frequency range that could most benefit from going cardioid is bass, and yet it's the bass woofers that seem to be lacking rear wave.

I cannot see it happening with 2 "woofers". The physics does not pan out. If there was more of an array scenario with ability to affect phase for each driver individually, perhaps.

Even the M80 is a 3-way speaker. That means six channels to drive it. Why do away with the passive if the active gets no better results?

That is a fair statement. Looking into it further, a hybrid network (passive crossover + active timing/phase correction and in-room eq.) will be easier and more user friendly. Unless, they plan to sell a DSP that also does speaker measurements and then auto room eq. (a config like the Tikandi + Deqx). If not anything else, there will be a huge psychological advantage from a marketing perspective. (Their crossover design and implementation being insufficient and cheap respectively, was the biggest issue if I recall correctly.)

 

[DS-21]

Based on what? Your opinion? It must be so then

As to the first point, the physics of bass reproduction in small rooms.

As to the second, a Canadian speaker company (Mirage under Ian Paisley) were the first to popularize the bipole. (Definitive Technology later copied much of Mirage's work and aped Mirage's aesthetic wholesale. Though DT did add powered "subs" - inasmuch as a cheap Eminence 18" driver with ~4mm of xmax can be called a "sub" - to the sides.)

A lot of the other Canadian speaker makers followed Mirage's lead and introduced bipoles. I don't recall off-hand an Energy bipole, but Paradigm did them (Esprit BP?) as did a few smaller firms. Based on that, a person can reasonably infer that Canadians like their bipoles.

 

[haraldo]

As to the first point, the physics of bass reproduction in small rooms.

As to the second, a Canadian speaker company (Mirage under Ian Paisley) were the first to popularize the bipole. (Definitive Technology later copied much of Mirage's work and aped Mirage's aesthetic wholesale. Though DT did add powered "subs" - inasmuch as a cheap Eminence 18" driver with ~4mm of xmax can be called a "sub" - to the sides.)

A lot of the other Canadian speaker makers followed Mirage's lead and introduced bipoles. I don't recall off-hand an Energy bipole, but Paradigm did them (Esprit BP?) as did a few smaller firms. Based on that, a person can reasonably infer that Canadians like their bipoles.

IMHO the bipole speakers have nothing to do with genuine music reproduction to do, they're a disaster when it comes to simple sound quality, just a pure mess of reflections everywhere and it gives me no resemblance of how music is to me.... I sould shy away from this at any cost

 

[TLS Guy]

IMHO the bipole speakers have nothing to do with genuine music reproduction to do, they're a disaster when it comes to simple sound quality, just a pure mess of reflections everywhere and it gives me no resemblance of how music is to me.... I sould shy away from this at any cost

I agree. O'Toole really puffed up the Mirage omni speakers for reasons I that I suspect were related to panels of inexperienced listeners.

I carefully auditioned those. Sure they had a spacious sound stage, but with everything whether called for or not. There was no focus to the sound, and pianos stretched the width of the room! In terms of tonal balance though they passed muster. Not a speaker to live with though.

 

[gtpsuper24]

Based on Axiom pricing structure, we guesstimate these speakers will sell for around $2500/pair in standard finishes, but we'll have to wait to find out - that's just a guess.

Ian released the price for the new towers plus the new dsp boxes they will release for all the other Axiom speakers. New tower including DSP box $3,760. New dsp box will be $880 for a stereo pair and $1190 for the L/R plus center.

 

[TLS Guy]

Ian released the price for the new towers plus the new dsp boxes they will release for all the other Axiom speakers. New tower including DSP box $3,760. New dsp box will be $880 for a stereo pair and $1190 for the L/R plus center.

At those prices, they are starting to pee in the tall grass, so they had better deliver.

Around the 4K price point is where you start to see some pretty decent speakers.

 

[3db]

As to the first point, the physics of bass reproduction in small rooms.

As to the second, a Canadian speaker company (Mirage under Ian Paisley) were the first to popularize the bipole. (Definitive Technology later copied much of Mirage's work and aped Mirage's aesthetic wholesale. Though DT did add powered "subs" - inasmuch as a cheap Eminence 18" driver with ~4mm of xmax can be called a "sub" - to the sides.)

A lot of the other Canadian speaker makers followed Mirage's lead and introduced bipoles. I don't recall off-hand an Energy bipole, but Paradigm did them (Esprit BP?) as did a few smaller firms. Based on that, a person can reasonably infer that Canadians like their bipoles.

IHO, two or three Canadian speaker manufactures that make a bipole model doesn't constitute Cnadians loving bipole. Other than surround channels, I can name at least 5 or more speaker manufacturers that do not offer bipoles as a main left/right channel such as PSB, Totem, Energy, Hansen Audio, Focus Audio, Coinident, Gershman, etc.. .

 

[DS-21]

IHO, two or three Canadian speaker manufactures that make a bipole model doesn't constitute Cnadians loving bipole.

And Genelec doesn't make cardoid speakers, though Gradient does, as do a few well-educated Finnish DIYers. Yet you didn't seem to take great offense at my statement that "Finns love their cardoids."

Though in all seriousness, can you name a speaker company that makes bipoles that isn't either Canadian or a selling blatant ripoff of a Canadian company's designs (e.g. DefTech's Mirage ripoffs)?

One could argue about AudioKinesis's offset bipoles, though I'm not sure if they have waveguides and compression drivers on both sides.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Americans love all kinds of speakers.

You know, I don't have a line-array yet.

 

[3db]

And Genelec doesn't make cardoid speakers, though Gradient does, as do a few well-educated Finnish DIYers. Yet you didn't seem to take great offense at my statement that "Finns love their cardoids."

Thats becausese I'm Canadian and I know bipoles aren't really a big thing here in Canada.

Though in all seriousness, can you name a speaker company that makes bipoles that isn't either Canadian or a selling blatant ripoff of a Canadian company's designs (e.g. DefTech's Mirage ripoffs)?

One could argue about AudioKinesis's offset bipoles, though I'm not sure if they have waveguides and compression drivers on both sides.

People in other countries ripping off (borrowing) ideas doesn't make it a love affair for us Canadians

 

[kini]

​

Ian released the price for the new towers plus the new dsp boxes they will release for all the other Axiom speakers. New tower including DSP box $3,760. New dsp box will be $880 for a stereo pair and $1190 for the L/R plus center.

They're out of their minds. $4K for a pair of speakers that look like they were thrown together with whatever parts they could find laying around.

Like the other poster stated that's a mighty high bridge they're trying to dangle their member from. I don't think it's going to reach the water.

Not at that price.

 

[gtpsuper24]

You also get to "upgrade" the drivers and tweeters in the new tower from the cheap stamped baskets to die cast baskets. Customize Yours, under Audio Jewerly. $40 for the tweeters, $120 for the woofers and another $80 for Bi Wire/Bi Amp Inputs. All this in not included in the $3,720.00 price.

But.......Axiom claims there is no SQ difference in upgrading

Andrew from Axiom:

"The reasoning for a die-cast option for the other drivers is more perception than anything else. Some manufacturers use very thin-walled stamped steel woofer baskets that can resonate at some frequencies. However, the standard Axiom baskets are made from very heavy gauge steel and do not "ring". You can expect identical performance from either the standard or die-cast option."

"I would wager that very few people have ever performed a controlled comparison of the two. It's pretty much impossible if you don't build drivers in-house and have an anechoic chamber to precisely match the drivers being compared. The test then needs to be performed blind, precisely level matched, and repeated multiple times to compensate for different speaker positions."

 

[DS-21]

People in other countries ripping off (borrowing) ideas doesn't make it a love affair for us Canadians

Fact remains, bipoles started in Canada, and every major Canadian speaker firm was doing one for a while.

Moreover, DefTech didn't just take the bipole idea, they ripped off Mirage's industrial design as well.

 

[ack_bak]

You also get to "upgrade" the drivers and tweeters in the new tower from the cheap stamped baskets to die cast baskets. Customize Yours, under Audio Jewerly. $40 for the tweeters, $120 for the woofers and another $80 for Bi Wire/Bi Amp Inputs. All this in not included in the $3,720.00 price.

But.......Axiom claims there is no SQ difference in upgrading

Andrew from Axiom:

"The reasoning for a die-cast option for the other drivers is more perception than anything else. Some manufacturers use very thin-walled stamped steel woofer baskets that can resonate at some frequencies. However, the standard Axiom baskets are made from very heavy gauge steel and do not "ring". You can expect identical performance from either the standard or die-cast option."

"I would wager that very few people have ever performed a controlled comparison of the two. It's pretty much impossible if you don't build drivers in-house and have an anechoic chamber to precisely match the drivers being compared. The test then needs to be performed blind, precisely level matched, and repeated multiple times to compensate for different speaker positions."

Yep, no sonic difference according to them, but they will gladly take your money if you want to give it to them. Honestly, I am surprised that die cast are not standard with a pair of speakers that are approaching $4k. These are not exactly budget speakers.