Salk SoundScape 8

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, but the 12s use TWO inch cabinets.

That means that have tighter bass and cleaner midrange.

And since the Ultima2's are 2.5" thick cabinets, they will no doubt sound the best.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Has there been any 3rd party measurements on salk speakers? I'd like for Soundstage! to shoot these in their chamber so we can get a proper objective comparison to other high-end speakers. On-off axis and at increasing output levels 90db-95db compared to 75db.

 

[Nuance AH]

I haven't heard the Soundscape 8, obviously, so they may very well be as good as you say, but your fall back that the 12 is even better was just too predictable.

I did say that I'd probably have to hear them side by side to notice, though. I don't expect you to believe anything I or anyone else says in this forum. You need to listen for yourself. Your ridicule is unnecessary, though, especially since you haven't heard both speakers speakers in question. I've also stated many times on this forum that the truly good speakers sound more similar than not to my ears. I've not heard many open back midrange designs, though, and I seem to have fallen for the SS series signature. I'd happily take them over the speakers mentioned earlier. To each their own.

 

[Nuance AH]

Purely subjective, of course.

I'm sure some will disagree & some will agree concerning the SQ & aesthetics.

To each his own.

The only thing objective is the on-axis, off-axis, & other measurements.

My opinion is that they will sound great, but not any greater than any other great sounding speakers.

To quote yourself, "purely subjective." I think they do sound better (probably due to the open-back design...it sounds more accurate), but you may not. The most influential factor here is the price ($7999). I think folks will struggle finding a better speaker for the money. YMMV and to each their own, of course.

I know you like what you own, and it seems you're even getting a bit defensive about it (which is natural), but I'd be willing to bet you'd give up what you own for these (less costly) SS8's based purely on sound. If you factor in looks, well...those Revel's are probably the sexiest of the bunch.

Has there been any 3rd party measurements on salk speakers? I'd like for Soundstage! to shoot these in their chamber so we can get a proper objective comparison to other high-end speakers. On-off axis and at increasing output levels 90db-95db compared to 75db.

Audioholics has taken some, but they were in-room I believe. I too would love to see measurements from the chamber at the NRC. This applies to all speaker manufacturers. I don't know what it costs to "rent" the facility, but it'd be great to see something 3rd party.

 

[GranteedEV]

Since sensitivity is about the same I wonder if the advantages of two woofers is audible compared to the philharmonic speakers when using a sub below 100hz.

Would be interesting.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...I think they do sound better...

Just fun & friendly debating is all.

Your opinion is a fine opinion. I respect it.

Bob recently compared the Phil2 with his own SS10. He said he mostly preferred the BG Neo8 over the Accuton, which is also a fine opinion by Bob.

Of course, Bob also thinks his SS10 is better than the Salon2..........which............. is....... not...... a fine opinion at all I......... must........ say. I am deeply sadden & resent that and unless he retracts his incalculable statement, I will never speak to him ever and ever again.

 

[Nuance AH]

Just fun & friendly debating is all.

Your opinion is a fine opinion. I respect it.

Bob recently compared the Phil2 with his own SS10. He said he mostly preferred the BG Neo8 over the Accuton, which is also a fine opinion by Bob.

Of course, Bob also thinks his SS10 is better than the Salon2..........which............. is....... not...... a fine opinion at all I......... must........ say. I am deeply sadden & resent that and unless he retracts his incalculable statement, I will never speak to him ever and ever again.

LOL! No, I agree, we're just chatting/debating here. I don't take things personal; this hobby is way too subjective to get upset over differing opinions.

I'm with Bob - I like the SS's better than the Salon2, but that doesn't mean you will. Considering people have been saying the Philly's are very close to the SS's, I think you'll get a good idea about what I heard two days ago. Plus yours are that sexy red, just like the SS8's. I'm kind of wanting a pair of speakers in that color now.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

LOL! No, I agree, we're just chatting/debating here. I don't take things personal; this hobby is way too subjective to get upset over differing opinions.

I'm with Bob - I like the SS's better than the Salon2, but that doesn't mean you will. Considering people have been saying the Philly's are very close to the SS's, I think you'll get a good idea about what I heard two days ago. Plus yours are that sexy red, just like the SS8's. I'm kind of wanting a pair of speakers in that color now.

Shiny red hot is the way to go.

No doubt about it. Yummy.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Shiny red hot is the way to go.

No doubt about it. Yummy.

Our ears have similar taste, not our eyes.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Our ears have similar taste, not our eyes.

So your Salons are piano black?

Piano black would be my second favorite. That's pretty close.

 

[Nuance AH]

So your Salons are piano black?

Piano black would be my second favorite. That's pretty close.

He has Salons? Ahh...now his attitude towards me makes sense. I meant no offense by saying the SS8's are better than the Salon's, Irvrobinson. Both are fantastic speakers and are nicer than what I have now.

I have attached a pic of the speaker I took with my phone (completely naked - without grills). The color of red is actually deeper than it shows in the pic, as the flash on my phone lightened it up.

 

[GranteedEV]

whT are those 8" woofers anyways? Are they also EX-Anarchy?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

He has Salons? Ahh...now his attitude towards me makes sense. I meant no offense by saying the SS8's are better than the Salon's, Irvrobinson. Both are fantastic speakers and are nicer than what I have now.

It's not that we were offended because we both own Salon2 (& ATI AT3000 amp).

It's just that we all have heard that statement over and over again all the time.

It doesn't matter if it's coming from a friend, brother, father, priest. It's just that we've heard it too many times and each time it never really turned out the way we thought we heard.

I'm sure you hear it all the time as well - that some speakers sound better than some other speakers.

And unless you have heard it for yourself, you will have doubts because you've heard it once too many times.

 

[GranteedEV]

I think Salk needs something more round like Salon2, KEF 207/2, & B&W 800D.

Something shaped like KEF 201/2 bookshelf also.

I see no reason why they can't re-do the SS8s with a marlan head type design upon request.

Who's gonna fund it though?

 

[randyb]

To quote yourself, "purely subjective." I think they do sound better (probably due to the open-back design...it sounds more accurate), but you may not. The most influential factor here is the price ($7999). I think folks will struggle finding a better speaker for the money. YMMV and to each their own, of course.

I know you like what you own, and it seems you're even getting a bit defensive about it (which is natural), but I'd be willing to bet you'd give up what you own for these (less costly) SS8's based purely on sound. If you factor in looks, well...those Revel's are probably the sexiest of the bunch.



Audioholics has taken some, but they were in-room I believe. I too would love to see measurements from the chamber at the NRC. This applies to all speaker manufacturers. I don't know what it costs to "rent" the facility, but it'd be great to see something 3rd party.

Sean Olive mentioned the cost in one of Scott Wilkinson home theater geeks podcasts. As I recall it was 400-500 to have them test a pair of speakers. Perhaps we should take up a collection on something someone really wants tested.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For all we know, SS may be better sounding than all the speakers listed.

And it is perfectly fine for anyone to have an opinion. For or against. No harm done.

But for the sake of our friendly debate class 101, what evidence is there to present to the jury?

1) Besides the rounded edges, it is rather a very square shaped speaker. Some people will argue it is not the best shape for "optimum" sound reproduction (not I since I don't know much about speakers building theories ). Grant & other can chime in on speaker shapes. Like shapes of Salon2, KEF Reference, B&W Diamond....

2) It has a single on-axis measurement. One. The jury will not look favorably on an $8/9K speaker with just one measurement when a $1.6K Philharmonic speaker has like 10 times that?

3) There is not a single, not even one 3rd party measurement or review.

4) Some folks believe the BG Neo8 is better than the Accuton (like Bob).

5) Big giants like Harman & KEF have spent millions in research & development, while Salk uses OEM DIY drivers that anyone and their neighbors and high-school students can use. Salk does have one weapon that neither Harman nor KEF has -- Dennis Murphy Crossovers.

I think will kick myself in the parking lot for not buying the $20,000 KEF 207/2 for only $10,000 brand new from an authorized dealer. My damn room is not big enough.

Anyway, for all we know, the SS could be better than the $20K KEF Reference, $22K Salon2, & $15K Orion. But it is a hard pill for the jury to swallow given some of these points.

We now wait for the Salk Nation rebuttal.

 

[DS-21]

He has Salons? Ahh...now his attitude towards me makes sense. I meant no offense by saying the SS8's are better than the Salon's, Irvrobinson.

It is basically impossible that, whatever you thought of the sound, the measured performance is equal to the big Revels. The reason is that the Revels properly control tweeter dispersion at the bottom of its passband (see, e.g. Stereophile's horizontal off-axis measurements) and these do not.

[/QUOTE]

I do love those CSS passive radiators, though. (In concept, never used them admittedly.) It was a stroke of genius to design a PR that's tunable without removing it from the cabinet, and that also looks good.

whT are those 8" woofers anyways? Are they also EX-Anarchy?

No inside knowledge, but from appearance they look an awful lot like Dayton Reference 8's to me.

 

[Nuance AH]

It's not that we were offended because we both own Salon2 (& ATI AT3000 amp).

It's just that we all have heard that statement over and over again all the time.

It doesn't matter if it's coming from a friend, brother, father, priest. It's just that we've heard it too many times and each time it never really turned out the way we thought we heard.

I'm sure you hear it all the time as well - that some speakers sound better than some other speakers.

And unless you have heard it for yourself, you will have doubts because you've heard it once too many times.

I cannot argue with that.

I will not, however, respond to your attack on Salk speakers, as we all know you don't need to be a large corporation to build great speakers. This has been debated time and time again and neither side has ever definitively won the argument. As for the measurements, I'll ask Jim to post the off-axis stuff, just for you, even though you're "hatin'" on his stuff.

It is basically impossible that, whatever you thought of the sound, the measured performance is equal to the big Revels. The reason is that the Revels properly control tweeter dispersion at the bottom of its passband (see, e.g. Stereophile's horizontal off-axis measurements) and these do not.

I am not qualified to rebuttal to this, so I'll pass it along to Jim and Dennis and see what they have to say. Unfortunately I don't remember which drivers Jim used for the 8's, so I'll pass that along too.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I cannot argue with that.

I will not, however respond to your attack on Salk speakers, as we all know you don't need to be a large corporation to build great speakers. As for the measurements, I'll ask Jim to post the off-axis stuff, just for you, even though you're "hatin'" on his stuff.

ACDefguy is a good dude. He raises some legitimate points--but I don't see that this is worth the air time. No one is going to resolve which speaker is better without way more controlled tests than we have, or are likely to have. So let's just leave it that Nuance really likes them, and ACDefguy would like to see more measurements.

 

[Nuance AH]

4) Some folks believe the BG Neo8 is better than the Accuton (like Bob).

Okay, I couldn't pass up responding to this one. So if Bob's opinion is the one you're going to listen to, then by that logic the SoundScapes are better than your Salon2's, because Bob said they are. And since I also say they are better, then that's 2 to 1 in favor of the SoundScapes. We win. Oh wait, but you've never heard the SoundScapes, so if you subtract the opinions of those that haven't heard both speakers, we're down to 2 (Bob and myself). We win again. Oh snap! P.S. They cost less too!

HAHA! See - your logic is highly flawed. Using the best drivers in the entire world, paired with arguably the best crossover designer (Salk) goes against your argument as well. And even if you do call into question the cabinet's, perhaps you should reference Vanderhooy's and Lipshitz's findings about cabinet resonance and the audibility of it when listening. Oh - double snap! LOL! With that said, the Salk cabinets are super inert, plenty thick and very well braced. But you wouldn't know that, because you haven't heard them. So the moral of the story here is this: you can compare measurements and argue all day about which is better, but until you've actually heard all the speakers in question...well, your opinion is null and void. With that said, I'll ask Jim to provide more for measurements for you buddy. But I must warn you, when he does, your argument will be thrown further into the toilet

Sean Olive mentioned the cost in one of Scott Wilkinson home theater geeks podcasts. As I recall it was 400-500 to have them test a pair of speakers. Perhaps we should take up a collection on something someone really wants tested.

That's good to know. That's not too costly for larger manufacturers.