Hi Everyone - need some sub advice on setup

[r_malvia]

Hi there. I'm new to this forum, so don't flame me for asking dumb questions or being ignorant (thanks). Anyways, I just finished my basement home theatre. The room is basically 14' wide x 18' long with 8' high ceilings (no windows and one door). The back of the room is curved like a semi circle. I've fully insulated the walls and ceiling. Ran CAT6, HDMI and speaker wires behind the walls. Finished all the terminations with wall plates/connectors from Monoprice. The ceiling and carpet is charcoal grey with the walls being dark brown/beige. I put in a 6" high platform at the end of the room for my sofa with my loveseat on the main floor. I have 4 wall sconces on a dimmer switch and LED strip lighting on a protruding ceiling ledge (offset lighting that shines upwards to the ceiling). So here's my setup:

106" Mustang motorized projection screen
Optoma HD200x 1080p projector
Pioneer Elite SC-35
Energy EXL 2.5 mains
Energy EXL 1.5 rears
Athena AS-B2 rears
Energy EXL-c centre
Energy EXL S8 sub
Samsung BD5700 Blu-Ray
PS3
Xbox360 w/HD-DVD
Telus Optik HD cable box
Harmony One remote
Whalen 54" stand

I'm running the sub at about 8.75 out of 10 on the volume dial and the xover at 80 Hz. I'm getting pretty good bass with the Xbox and PS3 games. The movies are decent. Music is lacking, but I built this room for movies. I seriously do not know how much bass you are supposed to hear or feel. I have nothing to compare to. I think the one 8" is good for my taste. Do I just go with what I feel, or with what the experts say? If I need to upgrade the bass in the room, do I run 2 - 8" subs or one 10"? Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[j_garcia]

Welcome A single 8" is not sufficient for a room that size. Two of them might give you almost enough output, but probably not much extension. The crossover should be set to its highest point if you are using a typical A/V receiver and have set it accordingly (some or all speakers set to small, sub = yes, connected to LFE out). There aren't too many 10" subs on the market these days, so you'll most likely be looking at a 12". Most important question: What is the budget?

 

[timoteo]

Because you have only heard the 8" in your room i really think its a matter of "ignorance is bliss", no disrespect!!

That room needs a minimum of 1-2 12" subs IMHO. Once you experience true bass extention & output you will truly get that CINEMA EXPERIENCE that we have all grown to crave.

Yes please tell us your budget.

This topic has been discussed countless times so the research has been done time & again. The referals you get from us are going to be the real thing. Hopefully you are willing to spend a minimum of $500-$800. If you can budget more you will get into some serious bass that will truly transform your system.

Since you are coming from an 8" sub it wont be hard to improve on the bass you have now. But the goal should be to get the most sub for your money. You can always turn the sub down to taste. But once you have good bass you wont know how you ever did without it haha!

Here are a few of the typical referals we give because they are proven:

Rythmik FV-12 $500 shipped
HSU VTF2/MK4 $519 +shipping
HSU VTF3/MK4 $659 +shipping
Outlaw LFM1-Plus $550
Outlaw LFM1-EX $650
SVS PB-12NSD $770 shipped
HSU VTF-15H $879 (i own this & LOVE it)
Rythmik FV-15 $1050 +ship
Rythmik FV-15HP $1325 +ship
SVS PB-12 Plus $1400 shipped
SVs PB-13 Ultra $2000 shipped

I know its a big list but i pretty much listed them in order pricewise. These are all between 12"-15" subs. They have great output in each of their price point. All have clean, tight, accurate bass. It becomes a matter of how loud & how low they get. For the most part you get more bass for your money as you go down the list, somewhat!! Most of the similar priced subs here perform VERY similar. As you jump up $100+ you get more performance.

Think about going with dual subs if you can afford it & if you have space for duals. Placed together you get 6db more. Seperated you get 3dB more but with better coverage of the room for more people (IF PLACED CORRECTLY)

Once you decide on a sub/s we will help you place it correctly, set it up & dial it in if youd like us to.

 

[r_malvia]

Thanks for all the input so far. Yes, I have all the speakers set to small with sub = yes and to the LFE output. Wow, I guess ignorance is bliss; I can already shake the walls with my little 8" Energy. I'm still a bit hesistant to go with a 10" or double 8's. I'm just not into earth shattering subsonic bass; I'd rather like clean bass (if there's such a thing). Anyways, if I'm going with another 8", I'd like to get another Energy to match the existing. If I'm going 10", I'm thinking of a Velodyne or Energy again. I have to watch my budget here as I just built this new palace and the mortgage is killing me right now!! I'd probably just go $500 tops. I also have another hobby which is my fish tank, so I still need to pour a bit of money into that as well.

 

[timoteo]

By the way, WELCOME & Congrats on your new Home Theater!!

Many of us here would love to have a dedicated theater room!! You have a nice system but as you know, your sub is the weak link. Add the right sub/s & you are going to have a very impressive & fun system!!

Where do you live?

Sometimes there are others near you that are willing to demo their system so you can hear a sub your considering. SVS, HSU & others allow an in home demo time. If your not happy you can return their subs -shipping. They also have demorooms if you happen to live near one of them.

 

[timoteo]

I understand not wanting to tear the walls down with bass. However you have a room of a little over 2,000cuft (if not open to other areas) HSU has a room rating & yours is at the top of a medium room. A 10" is minimum id recommend. Its not just about output, a sub that isnt pushed to its limits sounds much cleaner. You have less distortion & more headroom for the dynamics that todays movies have. Just because you have a 10" or 12" doesnt mean you HAVE to turn it up to high. I alway try to get a little more sub than i need. This way i use them below their limits. They last longer & sound better this way.

Im not trying to talk you into somethingyou dont want. I just want to educate you on the subject in case you hadnt thought of it from this angle.

With a $500 budget you are much better off with an InternetDirect brand than Energy or even Velodyne. You get more product for your $. Energy makes better speakers than they do subs. You dont need to have a sub from the same brand. In fact, the brands mentioned are specific to subwoofers & make some of the best manufactured subs in the world.

For $500 id definately get the Rythmik FV-12

 

[j_garcia]

A single, quality 12" such as the FV-12 will be better than two average 8" subs and that can definitely be done at the $500 price point. As mentioned, you can dial it down, but quality bass shouldn't be ripping the walls down, it should just sound good

 

[r_malvia]

Golden Ear Force Field sub

Thanks for the advice. I stopped into an HT audio shop today and they recommended the Golden Ear "Force Field 3" sub. This is only an 8", but it was amazing!!! It reminds me of a Bazooka Tube Bass. It has a really long throw and an insane amp inside. The thing was turned down right down to minimum and we watched a scene from "War of the Worlds." Tested in a similar sized room volume as mine, except it was open on one end. It was awesome!! He said with my room being enclosed, I will be able to feel the low ends better. What do you guys think?

 

[timoteo]

I have heard both the 8" & 10" version of the GOldenEar subs. They werent that bad Overpriced but a decent performing sub. Just so you know, 99.9% of shops with demo rooms have the sub 6-10dB hot. This makes people hear the bass because studies show that the masses think audio sounds better with a lot of bass.

What was the price of that 8"?
What is the 10" versions price?

I remember liking them but i remember thinking that for the money i could get better.

I just dont want you to push an 8" into distortion when you could have had a larger sub for the same or less money & be getting cleaner bass.

But it sounds to me like you have your mind set on an 8" for whatever reason. I dont think its a good idea at all to get an 8" (unless in a small bedroom). You came here for advice, we are giving it but ultimately its your money. I say get a ported 12", run it at the level you like & enjoy low distortion, high headroom, long lasting bass....i have said my piece

BTW: the BazookaTube sound isnt a good thing, sorry

 

[r_malvia]

I'm located in Vancouver, BC. The place I went to was "The Sound Room." They mainly carried Definitive, Paradigm and Golden Ears.

As for the cost of the 8", it was $550. He asked what my budget was and that's what he showed me. Everything else was outta my range. The 10" was $750.

Yeah, I'm keeping an open mind. I know that both of you mentioned the Rythmik FV-12 for $500 shipped. If I was to ship that to Canada, ouchhhhhhh. The shipping costs will kill the deal. I guess I can ship to a parcel depot and pickup it up from there. Has anyone tested this sub? I'm thinking of leaning towards this route, but I don't want to pull the trigger without hearing it and where can I find this sub locally? Thanks

 

[gaby95]

I'm located in Vancouver, BC. The place I went to was "The Sound Room." They mainly carried Definitive, Paradigm and Golden Ears.

As for the cost of the 8", it was $550. He asked what my budget was and that's what he showed me. Everything else was outta my range. The 10" was $750.

Yeah, I'm keeping an open mind. I know that both of you mentioned the Rythmik FV-12 for $500 shipped. If I was to ship that to Canada, ouchhhhhhh. The shipping costs will kill the deal. I guess I can ship to a parcel depot and pickup it up from there. Has anyone tested this sub? I'm thinking of leaning towards this route, but I don't want to pull the trigger without hearing it and where can I find this sub locally? Thanks

As mentioned before, the recommendations here are based on a lot of research and user feedback. I wouldnt pay $550 for an 8" when you can get a LOT better performance with one of the 12" mentioned previously. They will easily outperform that one you heard.

 

[lsiberian]

For 500 bucks you aren't gonna do great with subs.

I recommend 2 x Dayton Sub 120s. Those are fine for people who don't prioritize bass response.

 

[r_malvia]

WOW!!!!! The Dayton SUB120 is $99 with $14 shipping. Killer deal! Thanks for the info Lisberian. I assume that the Rythmik FV12 will sound better than this? But for the price difference, I might take the gamble and see. Anyone have any experience with this sub? There's also the Dayton SUB-1200 that's $129, any difference with this one?

I'm on a pretty tight budget currently. As mentioned before, I have a huge mortgage to pay off as well I need a new fish tank. My 100 gal. started leaking. I managed to save everyone in the tank; new tank I'm looking at is the cost of a sub and more.

 

[j_garcia]

The 1200 is the newer model and we haven't really heard from any actual owners on them yet. Based on the specs, it should be fairly similar to the older Sub120. No, it won't be anywhere near the quality of the FV-12.

You might split the difference a bit and consider this one: http://hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html

Will give you quality sound without breaking the bank or rattling the walls.

 

[Alex2507]

... new tank I'm looking at is the cost of a sub and more.

I say eat the fish and get two subs.

 

[Nuance AH]

I say eat the fish and get two subs.

At that price get four or five.

 

[timoteo]

I have heard the previous Dayton 10" version & was HIGHLY disappointed!!! The box was light the driver VERY cheap & amp just as bad. Sorry but i could never recommend the cheaper Dayton subs.

The issue is that its not about ouput alone. We are recommending certain subs that are accurate. The bass they create is very clean & detailed NOT just a blob of one-tone mush.

The FV-12 isnt going to give you insane bass. It will give you good bass that will get plenty loud if you want it to. But you said your looking for the low end to fill in not shake the house. The FV-12 will give you what you want at a decent $500. Not cheap but not expensive compared to most. I understand if shipping puts you over budget but i wouldnt go the Dayton route.

Have you contacted Rythmik, SVS or HSU to see if they will cut you a deal on shipping? They may work with you on that.

The HSU STF-2 & VTF-1 are good value subs!!!

 

[r_malvia]

Tough choices

Hi guys. Here's some photos of my HT room. Thanks for all the advice so far!!! You guys are great (especially Tiimoteo & j_garcia). I see the system setups that people have on this forum and they are insane!

Is a down firing or front firing sub be best for my room? I've read a few of the comments on this forum. Still not sure. My carpet is basically a matted berber (easy for clean ups).

I haven't contacted anyone as of yet cuz I'm still doing the researching. Do you think the HSU SFT-2 will be okay for my room size (14'W x 18'L x 8'H) or better to pony up the cash for the FV-12?

 

[timoteo]

Very nice theater room!! Great job on the layout, color & with the stadium seating!!

Ok so the STF-2 will be a step up from what you have for sure. The STF-2 is rated by HSU for your room size. The question of will it be enough however is a matter of perspective. I myself wouldnt feel the STF-2 would be enough. But i have a feeling that you & i have different requirements with bass. The STf-2 will sound good & will be better than you have.

The FV-12 is a step up from the STF-2. To me it is definately worth the extra $150 or so. Double check but i think youd need to pay shipping on the STF-2 but the FV-12 is $500 shipped. So the price may not be that different. In that case for sure step up to the FV-12.

Besides having more output, AKA volume, the FV-12 will go lower. So even if the 2 subs were playing at the same volume, you would hear lower frequencies with the Fv-12. So for instance, the WarOfTheWorlds scene you heard at the shop, that has some <20hz signals. The FV-12 will dig deeper & sound closer to what was meant to be heard.

Again, its not so much the extra volume we are recommending for you (youve made it clear you dont like that) its the lower bass & cleaner sound we want you to have. The FV-12 wont have to work near as hard as the Goldenear you heard. So distortion is minimized giving you smoother, grin inducing bass

 

[r_malvia]

Thanks for the advice Timoteo!!! You've opened my eyes to the world of BASS!!! Has anyone sampled U-571? There's the one scene where the Nazis are dropping a crap load of depth charges on them. I'm anxious to watch that scene (it's also my favorite movie). That should be sound awesome!
I might run the 8" on the other side of the room. Think that will aid or conflict with either sub I choose?

I do have another setup upstairs, but that's more for just casual listening. I was thinking of moving my 8" to that room. The speakers are Energy CF-30's (can you tell I like Energy). Actually I think they went downhill in quality since they got taken over by Klipsch. I used to have another awesome system with Paradign Titans, Atoms and NHT super 8.