Hi Everyone - need some sub advice on setup

[timoteo]

U571 is one of my favorites as well!! Good taste

Yeah that scene has some pretty low bass frequencies for sure!! What your getting with that 8" in NOTHING like it will be with the FV-12. Your Energy sub i probably rolling off somewhere around 30-35hz, the Fv-12 will be somewhere closer to 25hz. Plus the output & tactile effect will be much better. I have a feeling you are like the rest of us. Once you start to experience true bass you cant go back! not that you need to tear the walls down, because even nasty bass can shake things up. No, good bass just sounds great. Its detailed & powerful...sucks you into the movie more!!

You should read up about running dual subs. There are do's & dont's, one thing you shouldnt do is have 2 different size subs share the bass signal. The lesser performing sub will bring the quality of the better sub down. I run a 12" & a 15" BUT i split the bass signal into 2 parts. The 12" does the mid-bass & the 15" does the low-bass.

Also read up on subwoofer placement!! Having your sub in the right location makes ALL the difference. Read about the "bass crawl". This is a way of finding a good spot to place your sub. Trust me it works!!

A single sub if placed correctly can only be adjusted to give ONE seating location good bass. As you move seats the bass will change. This is due to the way bass waves react once in a room. This is why multiple subs can benefit you. If you place dual subs in the right spots, you will get better bass response across a larger seating area. But the subs have to be located in 2 different spots across the room for eachother. Not just any spots either, you have to figure out the 2 best spots, it depends on your room shape/size. Then if you have 3 or 4 subs you get even better coverage. But again, they have to be placed right & dialed in correctly. Multiple subs can hurt the bass if not placed right because of frequency cancellation. You want the 2 subs to help eachother out not fight against eachother. Anyways thats just a little lesson in multiple subs. There is A LOT to learn on this topic!!

 

[r_malvia]

Another snag

I was looking on the Rythmik site and it clearly stated that shipping is already included in the retail price. But that's not the case when you put it in the cart. There's still an additional $60 in shipping. Ouch. Now I'm really stretching my budget. I've emailed them and they said that shipping is extra. Think I'll call them and get them to retract that sentence on their website.

If that's the case, I'm seriously thinking of scaling back now to the HSU STF-2. At least this is $349 + $43 shipping. I know it's only a difference of $150, but I need to draw the line somewhere. If I didn't set a limit, I'll be ending up with a bunch of subs (hahaha). At least I can use this for a while and if I'm craving for the extra punch, I can budget for a larger sub in the future. Think this is money worth spent?

Others are telling me that since I have to pay for shipping and the time to pickup, I might consider the SVS PB12-NSD locally ($750). But that's still out of my league.

 

[Nuance AH]

The Rythmik is the better subwoofer, but you gotta do what you gotta do. That SVS is also very good for the money, but as you said it's out of your price range.

An extra $60 in shipping is well worth the extra performance you'll get from the Rythmik, but that's just my opinion.

 

[r_malvia]

BIC subs?

Anyone sample or have the BIC H-100 or PL-200? Supposedly they are the same as HSU? True?

 

[timoteo]

Those were designed with the help of Dr. Poh Hsu the owner of HSU Research. I would recommend the STF-2 over the BIC or PremierAcoustics but id also recommend the FV-12 over the STF-2. I understand having a budget & sticking to it. However!...could you wait another week or two in order to save up an extra $60? It would be WELL WORTH the extra few bucks!!

You have narrowed your choices down to some good subs. The Fv-12 is the best on your list. If you cant do the FV-12 now because of $60 then just wait until you can. You wont regret it!!

Id hate for you to get a different sub then be wondering "what if?"

 

[r_malvia]

Those were designed with the help of Dr. Poh Hsu the owner of HSU Research. I would recommend the STF-2 over the BIC or PremierAcoustics but id also recommend the FV-12 over the STF-2. I understand having a budget & sticking to it. However!...could you wait another week or two in order to save up an extra $60? It would be WELL WORTH the extra few bucks!!

You have narrowed your choices down to some good subs. The Fv-12 is the best on your list. If you cant do the FV-12 now because of $60 then just wait until you can. You wont regret it!!

Id hate for you to get a different sub then be wondering "what if?"

Yeah, I think I'll wait til the spring. But it's actually a difference of $160. The HSU is $400 shipped and the FV is $560 shipped. Thanks.

 

[timoteo]

I meant a difference of $60 going from $500 & adding $60 for shipping on the Rythmik. So yeah if it takes waiting till spring then its worth the wait. Well keep us informed on the buy & post pics when you do get your sub!!!....then save up for a second Fv-12!!

 

[r_malvia]

Don't tempt me on a second one just yet. I appreciate all the advice from everyone on this subject. Very well informed users on this site. I love it!!!!! Yes, I'll post once I pick this up. I'll probably need some advice on fine tuning it.

 

[r_malvia]

FV12 is on the way!!!!

Sold my Canucks/Leafs tixs this weekend so I can get this sub. Paid for about 75% of the sub!!! I was seriously considering the eD A2-300. Called them and they said there was about a 4 week turn around. Anyways, since I had the extra cash now, I went for the FV12. Can't wait til it comes!!!!

 

[timoteo]

Very cool & congradulations on the new sub!!!

I hope you know that its a big sub. But we are dealing with the laws of physics here so to get the most out of the driver, the box needs to be large. You may want to mock up the size with some cardboard. I did that b4 i got the VTF-15H because that sub is huge!

But it is well worth the size & price so i think once you get here fired up youll forget all about her size.

A couple things to keep in mind when the sub arrives:
1. Being brand new the sub will not sound its best right away. It will take approx 30-50hrs to break-in.
2. Placement is critical to get the most out of any sub. So do the "bass crawl" to locate a good spot. Use the Audioholics search to locate their writeup & read up on it.
3. You will want to START with the subs settings like this:
Volume 50%
Phase at 0
Crossover 100%
Bass Extention Damping - Mid
Bass Extention Frequency - 20hz
Then you want to run your receivers auto calibration. Go in & manually set all speakers to SMALL & crossover between 60hz & 120hz depending on taste.
Try playing with the subs placement & settings to fine tune. Come ask us if you have any questions.

Please let us know what you think of it & post more pics...we love those!

Again Congrats!!!

 

[r_malvia]

Thanks for the heads up! I'm impressed with the shipping from Rythmik. It's already in freight and will be arriving this Thurs. I few more sleepless nights... the anticipation is killing me!!

 

[Nuance AH]

Congrats - that is awesome!

 

[r_malvia]

I got it!!!

Hi everyone. The FV12 finally arrived!!! Actually, I thought it might have been a bit bigger, but anyways, it's a piece of art! Very well built and soild! Now, this is what's driving me crazy:

Did the "bass crawl" and didn't hear much difference at either location in the room, so I set it up in the same spot as my last sub.

I am running this sub with my Energy setup and powering it all is the Pioneer Elite SC-35. Tons of power on this receiver. I have a RCA Y-splitter connected to the R/L input on the sub, running back to subwoofer output on receiver. I set the initial sub settings to the following:

Volume 50%
Phase 0
Crossover 120 (max)
Bass Extension Damping - mid
Bass Extension Frequency - 20Hz

I ran the initial auto setup with MCACC. No problem. I had the bass and treble flat at zero. Then I changed the speaker settings to small and x-over at 80Hz. Re-ran the Auto EQ and choose to "keep speaker settings." First thing it did, check the subwoofer output. It said to turn up the volume. It's already at 50%.... so I turn it up to 75%.... still turn it up.... put it to full.. still said to turn it up. I just skipped this test then and continued with the rest of the setup. How can this be?!! My previous 8" Energy EXL S8 sub was only set at 50% intially and it told me to turn it down. Something is definetly wrong. I continued with the manual MCACC to mess around with the settings. Still not right. I played U571 on the chapter with the depth charges. Initially, got some boom, but then the next scene when they are being hammered underwater, very little bass. Even when I did the "bass crawl", I did not feel much bass with the volume at -15. Then I tried Avatar where they take down the "sacred tree" with missles. Got some very good bass, but drops off fast. Even throughout battle scenes, the bass seems very "stifled." The bass is just not consistently on. I found that my previous sub was constantly working. Right now, not to be crude, but it sounds like it's 'farting!' I definetly don't like the sound of that as I'm thinking it may damage the woofer, so I play the track to a minimal time.

I also tested it with (for those gamers out there) NFS - Hot Pursuit. When I activate the "EMP" during the game, the sub starts to fart again. But when I activate the "turbo", major earthquake rumble. Same goes for when the police chopper is flying overhead.... farting!

Another thing I noticed, is when I first intially turned on the system; I set the power switch to 'auto.' Played a track with some bass, it doesn't seem to register. I then switch it to 'on' so it's forced to turn on. Then I hear the bass. I then switch it back to 'auto.' It shouldn't be doing this. Right now, my old sub is sounding better and working properly. That shouldn't be the case. I don't think there's anything wrong with the sub itself. Has anyone had problems with their MCACC setups for sub setup? Very frustrating. Better yet, anyone with a SC-35 that had problems during setup? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!!!

 

[timoteo]

Well dont get too worried yet! We'll help you get this figured out.

First just so you know, the Pioneer Elite is not powering the Rythmik. Yes the SC does have anlot of power but its only powering the speakers. The sub has its own amp & is self powered. In fact, the amp on it is designed & tweaked to work perfectly with the FV12's driver.

It sounds like you may have the sub in a bad location. If the sub is placed in a spot that creates a null at your seat then no matter how much you turn it up, those frequencies will just continue to cancel eachother out. This will also cause the sub to sound as if its "farting".

First try flipping the phase on it. I doubt this will help much but try it before moving it. If anything it will rule the phase out as being the problem.

Next try moving the sub to another location. Then rerun your MCACC.

Brand new subs will always sound a bit dry at first. The midbass will be lacking some & extention will be limited. But it shouldnt sound like a fart. When you did the bass crawl, how many locations did you check or crawl to? Did you place the sub in a corner?

If you have a test tone cd or a THX-Certified DVD (with frequency sweep) try playing it & listen to the sub up close to make sure its reproducing those tones properly. Because once dialed in & broken-in, the FV12 should be much better than the 8".

I dont know how your MCACC works with adjusting the sub but you really shoulnt have to have the volume knob set any higher than 50% maybe 75% max. You need some headroom for dynamics. Is there a sub trim in the Pioneer that allows you to adjust the volume being sent to the sub from the avr?

Placement is definately one of the most important things in getting the best bass you can. So try multiple locations to find the "sweet spot" & even try locations you might not actually leave it at just to see the performance difference.

 

[shadyJ]

There is no way the Rythmik won't blow away the 8" sub. The farting noise sounds like chuffing, however in my time with the FV12 I was never able to get it to chuff very audibly. I did have some resistance getting it to get loud, but I was able to. What I suggest is try running your setup without MCACC for a bit and see how the sub sounds. If the sub can sound reasonably loud without MCACC than MCACC may be the cause of the problems. From what I have read, MCACC has always been the worst room correction EQ at calibrating bass, but that was for older Pioneer models, I would have expected things to change by now. Also, are you sure you did the sub crawl method correctly? You would typically want to use test tones for that, or at least some kind of consistent sound, like a beat and bass line.

 

[r_malvia]

Don't you wish some days you can go step into a time machine and go back. That's how I feel for my previous post. When I tried to individually test the separates, the sw started fine for the first few seconds, then starts to splutter. I finally figured out what was wrong...... the sub cable. It was plugged all the way in, but it somehow did not sit properly. I wiggled it back and forth and you can hear the difference. Weird, how can that problem happen with two differrent wires. I ran the Mogami wires for the past few years and no problems. Anyways, it sounds pretty good now! Now I just need to fine tune the sucker. I re-ran MCACC and everything turned out fine. I have the receiver x-over at 80. Should I just leave the sub x-over at 120? The sub sounds fine where it is. Watched Battle Los Angeles last night and there's some very deep lows in that movie. Problem is that the kids are sleeping so I can't really crank it. Watched it at -32 on the volume. I also watched Star Wars: Phantom Menace.... pod racing scene. Awesome lows in that chapter.

I'll post some pics later.

 

[r_malvia]

Another problem

Ok. Now I have another problem with the setup. Now after more testing and swapping cables, it think it's the pre-out that's not right. When I was watching a bunch of movies with substantial bass, the sub seems to cut in and out (like mentioned before, not consistant bass). When the sub goes quiet, I wiggle the pre-out connection and then it comes back alive. That's why when I first power up the system, the sub does not auto detect the signal (probably due to the low signal strength and it won't trigger the sub on). I bet if I have a fully functional sub-out, the bass should sound pretty awesome. It's like having a V8 and running only on 6.

Has anyone had or heard of problems with their pre-out? I called Pioneer and they said I have to bring it in. It going to suck to take apart all the connections and then to re-wire everything again. I'm guessing it's a loose connection at the pre-out.

 

[timoteo]

So you wiggle the sub cable at the Pioneer's preout? Not the connection at the back of the sub itself?

Have you tried a brand new sub cable?

As far as the auto on function. I personally dont like them & i leave then in the On position. At night i shut off my APC line filter & everything shuts off. But if you want to use it then after you get it dialed in, turn the volume knob down a few dB on the plate amp but in turn, adjust the sub volume up in the Pioneer the same dB to compensate. This way the plate amp "sees" a stronger input signal from the avr & is triggered on more accurately.

 

[r_malvia]

Yes, it's the preout at the receiver. Don't know if I can do anything about it besides bringing it in for repairs.

 

[r_malvia]

I did try 2 existing cables and also a new cable. The one existing cable I'm using right now on a Pioneer VSX 921. The other one I'm using on a Yamaha RXV 496. Anyways, it's taken apart and off the the repair shop. Hopefully I'll get it back soon. I'll overwrite my settings and start from scratch again.