Mark Levinson 433 vs Parasound 51

[jinjuku]

In this case it's the amplifier's ability to control the two difficult Eton 12" bass drivers, I still believe it must have something to do with impedance matching in the 40 to 80 Hz region....

If that is the case you have an Amp problem. Any designer (Bob Carver) can design an amp to give out a sonic signature. There are plenty of DSP products that you can put uptream of the amp to do that.

Regardless an Amp should amplify the input as unmolested as possible and keep it's self together 20 to 20 inside it's design parameters. Phase Angle and Impedance.

 

[haraldo]

If that is the case you have an Amp problem

Yes I agree, it's why I don't have these amps

Regardless an Amp should amplify the input as unmolested as possible and keep it's self together 20 to 20 inside it's design parameters. Phase Angle and Impedance.

But for this you need an output impedance at 0.000000000000001 ohms and no amps can do that
So it will never be perfect

 

[jinjuku]

The underlying message that I interpret from the few prior posts is a seemingly stealth dismissal of pro-audio amps.

Do yourself a favor try out a well respected amp like the Crown Macro-Tech 1200.

From Crowns website:

The Crown® Macro-Tech® i Series continues the Macro-Tech legacy of unparalleled sonic accuracy and detail, putting sound quality above all else

This whole notion that Crown or QSC engineers are somehow morons, where as outfits like Classe, Krell, Bryston somehow attended EE school on Mars is just asinine.

I guarantee you a company like Crown has more institutional knowledge of the art of audio reproduction than a good deal of 'audiophile' outfits combined.

 

[haraldo]

About pro amps.....

How about the Yamaha P series amps, they are not very expensive and specs seem to be quite interesting....
P-S Series | Power Amps | Products | Yamaha

 

[psbfan9]

I have no doubt about the value of emotiva products. They would fit my budget better. I have read some comments that are confusing such as:

"No, the XPA-2 doesn’t treat my music with the kid gloves that my much more expensive $7k Denon POA-A1HDCI amplifier is able to do, but it shares many of its sonic virtues while also besting it in sheer output power"

So what does that really mean and is there any reasonable differences?

Hm, I have no idea what he meant. Is there a possibility you could ask him what he meant by this?

Bold: There is some debate/arguing over if amps of different brands sound different. It gets a little at rough at times, similar to discussing politics or religion. You will have to decide this for yourself. If you can hear a difference and choose one amp over another, then that's the right choice.

Good luck

 

[DenPureSound]

I noticed most of the PRO Amps do not have the 12Vdc Trigger on them.

Why is that?

 

[Irvrobinson]

You didn't understand: I am saying YOU CAN'T tell me which is the audiophile amp with any statistical significance in a 10 round test.

I completely agree with this statement. I've participated in DBTs and I can't tell the difference, nor can I discern a difference on single-blind or sighted comparisons with fast or slow switching, between any two well-designed solid-state amps operating within their typical parameters.

The problem is that tests like that don't tell me anything about my satisfaction with an amp over the course of a listening session. I've had people tell me I shouldn't have a preference, that I'm imagining whatever preference I have. Well, maybe, most measurements say I shouldn't have a preference, but I should ignore my preferences to spite myself? That's silly. Perhaps the tests are not what they claim to be.

 

[jinjuku]

I noticed most of the PRO Amps do not have the 12Vdc Trigger on them.

Why is that?

Because they are usually wired to something that controls outlet power like a power sequencer.

 

[jinjuku]

That's silly. Perhaps the tests are not what they claim to be.

Nor is aural memory. And the testing protocol doesn't claim to 'be anything'.

You can long term listen un-sighted and level matched. It would be a bit of work because at some point someone will need to sneak into your setup and alternate the amps. Say a 3 month period and simply take notes every listening session and see if impressions have an correlation to the change up.

Again I still think this is some form of at whim dismissal of product that doesn't carry an audiophile badge. At least I spent the money, lived the years with multiple styles of amps. Not too many can say that.

 

[DenPureSound]

The beauty of this hobby is to make an affordable system that makes you enjoy the music.... it's not so difficult to make an expensive system that sounds good but to make it affordable requires an audiophile ninja ....

From one Viking to another Viking, that is one key pt. to get the most that sounds excellent for the least $'s. And, with these newer Pro Amps w/ all that power, very little weight, low cost, how can one go wrong if the quality of sound is still there?

 

[jinjuku]

I've had people tell me I shouldn't have a preference, that I'm imagining whatever preference I have. Well, maybe, most measurements say I shouldn't have a preference, but I should ignore my preferences to spite myself?

You can have whatever preference you want. If you didn't come by it in an honest fashion however you are simply fooling yourself.

I lived with my Parasound and Crown matched for 3 months. The Crown stayed because while the both did stellar at low and moderate levels the Crown clearly had the upper hand when getting on it. Just more headroom.

 

[DenPureSound]

You didn't understand: I am saying YOU CAN'T tell me which is the audiophile amp with any statistical significance in a 10 round test.




That's a question anyone purchasing an amp should ask themselves. Have you setup a scenario with a well respected Pro-Audio amp and an Audiophile equivalent?

I've owned Adcom, Parasound. I've had NAD/Emo/Classe for audition. I own Crown/Behringer.

There is a lot of ignorance out there DPS...

No, I did understand what you were stating, and that is why you own Crown and Behringer, and that is why I was looking closely at the QSC PLX1804 amp -- a lot of amp for the money.

Geez, when you look at all the specs on these PA Amps, I see nothing that stands out as POOR, except the cost for a poorer man and the weight to move them for older men.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Nor is aural memory. And the testing protocol doesn't claim to 'be anything'.

Not true. The tests claim to determine equality and inequality.

You can long term listen un-sighted and level matched. It would be a bit of work because at some point someone will need to sneak into your setup and alternate the amps. Say a 3 month period and simply take notes every listening session and see if impressions have an correlation to the change up.

True, but why bother? Let's say that the tests indicated I showed no preference between amps that differ $2K in price. I'd rather spend the $2K than screw around for 3 months. Or 3 weeks, for that matter. Perhaps if I was convinced I needed a $10K amp, but I don't buy $10K amps.

Again I still think this is some form of at whim dismissal of product that doesn't carry an audiophile badge. At least I spent the money, lived the years with multiple styles of amps. Not too many can say that.

Baloney. I never said I was dismissing a Crown, for example, I said I was discerning between amplifiers. I haven't discussed what the brands were. You're making assumptions and condescending statements based on your assumptions of my experiences and biases.

 

[haraldo]

From one Viking to another Viking, that is one key pt. to get the most that sounds excellent for the least $'s. And, with these newer Pro Amps w/ all that power, very little weight, low cost, how can one go wrong if the quality of sound is still there?

Yes, the Yamaha amps seem like so good that it's very hard to go wrong and from what I heard they're along the most silent ones from the "pro family amps"

Other brands seem quite good too, some crown amps even have peq

I don't, however, see any class-d pro-amps, why is that?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

No, I did understand what you were stating, and that is why you own Crown and Behringer, and that is why I was looking closely at the QSC PLX1804 amp -- a lot of amp for the money.

Geez, when you look at all the specs on these PA Amps, I see nothing that stands out as POOR, except the cost for a poorer man and the weight to move them for older men.

A lot of points to look at.

The QSC PLX is 6 yr warranty, made in USA, has a lot of power, good price, lightweight. Looks like it also has the regular speaker posts on the picture from the QSC website. Did you ask QSC about the speaker posts on the PLX?

QSC - PLX2 Professional Power Amplifiers

 

[haraldo]

A lot of points to look at.

The QSC PLX is 6 yr warranty, made in USA, has a lot of power, good price, lightweight. Looks like it also has the regular speaker posts on the picture from the QSC website. Did you ask QSC about the speaker posts on the PLX?

QSC - PLX2 Professional Power Amplifiers

But they still have a fan, yes

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

But they still have a fan, yes

Do the Yamaha have fans?

 

[haraldo]

Do the Yamaha have fans?

Yes, they do have variable speed fans....

 

[jinjuku]

No, I did understand what you were stating, and that is why you own Crown and Behringer, and that is why I was looking closely at the QSC PLX1804 amp -- a lot of amp for the money.

Geez, when you look at all the specs on these PA Amps, I see nothing that stands out as POOR, except the cost for a poorer man and the weight to move them for older men.

Thx for the clarification. NOW I understand.... Sry.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, they do have variable speed fans....

Why oh why?

Cost savings, lightweight compared to heat sinks?

I hope my amps last 50 yrs.

But if they don't, I'm thinking Bryston if I can get them new for like 50% off.