Mark Levinson 433 vs Parasound 51

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Oh, really? Then why were you complaining so much about your Salon 2s being made in Mexico?

I think they sound phenomenal even if they were assembled in Mexico, but of course I would like all my components to be made in the USA.

Just like I think components made in China can be great, but I wish they were all made in the USA.

The #1 thing is quality. Warranty is important. Aesthetics is important to some of us. Where they are made is not the most important. But we all have our personal preferences on this last point.

 

[jinjuku]

A custom installer told me to buy Crown. I scoffed. Guess the joke was on me (karma for pretending I know something about audio stuff ).

Can you imagine what the custom installer is thinking?

 

[psbfan9]

Maybe I missed it, but why hasn't anyone recommended the OP buy an Emotiva ( AH reviewer favorite) amp? Are Emotiva amps inferior to other brands mentioned?

 

[jinjuku]

Maybe I missed it, but why hasn't anyone recommended the OP buy an Emotiva ( AH reviewer favorite) amp? Are Emotiva amps inferior to other brands mentioned?

Ok, get three XPA-1's and call me in the morning I think they like Parasound and others around here too. Also the HK3490 Stereo receiver.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Maybe I missed it, but why hasn't anyone recommended the OP buy an Emotiva ( AH reviewer favorite) amp? Are Emotiva amps inferior to other brands mentioned?

The OP asked for our opinion about a choice between a used Levinson and a Parasound. The thread hasn't yet reached the point at which responses completely ignore the intent of the OP, but it's getting there.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I think they sound phenomenal even if they were assembled in Mexico, but of course I would like all my components to be made in the USA.

Just like I think components made in China can be great, but I wish they were all made in the USA.

The #1 thing is quality. Warranty is important. Aesthetics is important to some of us. Where they are made is not the most important. But we all have our personal preferences on this last point.

On these points we agree, but that wasn't my point at all. I think in Harman's case it is a classic hollowing out of a once great company (or actually a set of companies). For example, I haven't seen lower prices on the Salon 2 since the move to Mexico.

 

[jinjuku]

The OP asked for our opinion about a choice between a used Levinson and a Parasound. The thread hasn't yet reached the point at which responses completely ignore the intent of the OP, but it's getting there.

I would like to establish a point of order around here: Just because an OP asks for comments on A or B doesn't mean in the course of a thread mean that C or D will not or should not be explored.

Carry on...

 

[jinjuku]

On these points we agree, but that wasn't my point at all. I think in Harman's case it is a classic hollowing out of a once great company (or actually a set of companies).

Yep you will never see high end consumer grade out of Crown again. They can't have it competing with their audiophilic brands.

For example, I haven't seen lower prices on the Salon 2 since the move to Mexico.

We developed a controller in-house that our cost is $170 per vs the $400 we were paying. We didn't lower our price. Markets will charge what customers are willing to pay. We put in the effort, we reap the rewards.

BTW, it's built in the USA Send it to China and they simply run a '3rd shift' on it.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Yep you will never see high end consumer grade out of Crown again. They can't have it competing with their audiophilic brands.

What does this have to do with my comment? I can't see the connection. Of course, it also begs the question... do you work for Crown and set their product strategy? Otherwise, how can you make such an assertion?

 

[Irvrobinson]

We developed a controller in-house that our cost is $170 per vs the $400 we were paying. We didn't lower our price. Markets will charge what customers are willing to pay. We put in the effort, we reap the rewards.

Philosophically I completely agree. But with consumer products there is an additional factor. I was willing to pay more for the Revel *because* it was made in the US, silly as that sounds. If someone is going to use labor in a low cost geo for a consumer product I expect to see a lower price. Like with the Emotiva CD player I just bought. It was an amazing value. I realize that some people think there's a certain irrationality to my position, but this is *exactly* why there are very stringent laws in the US about what can be labelled made here and what can't. Or even just assembled here. There's a tangible market value to domestic manufacturing.

Frankly, I think I've taken this thread down a rat-hole, and I'll leave it be. There's no cheese here.

 

[jinjuku]

What does this have to do with my comment? I can't see the connection. Of course, it also begs the question... do you work for Crown and set their product strategy? Otherwise, how can you make such an assertion?

You said: I think in Harman's case it is a classic hollowing out of a once great company

It's just a hunch/guess on my part. I don't think you will ever see a serious, competitively price D/PS/MacroReference out of them again.

Even JBL doesn't have what I would consider a truly competitive amp line up any longer.

I think it is one case in point. I thought the same year Harman took over Crown the Macro-Reference was dropped.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

On these points we agree, but that wasn't my point at all. I think in Harman's case it is a classic hollowing out of a once great company (or actually a set of companies). For example, I haven't seen lower prices on the Salon 2 since the move to Mexico.

I see your point and I share your concerns.

I am disappointed that the Ultima2 assembly has moved to Mexico.

I hope Harman is able to maintain their quality and that this concern is only "superficial".

I can see that they have maintained their quality with the Salon2 & Studio2.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I was willing to pay more for the Revel *because* it was made in the US, silly as that sounds... I realize that some people think there's a certain irrationality to my position..

You are not the only one who feels this way for sure.

But who's going to listen to us?

At least your Salon2 were made in the USA!

 

[DenPureSound]

Now, back to the OP's question -- Mark Levinson 433 vs Parasound 51

or ?

Why would you go with a PA Amp, like QSC or Behringer iNUKE vs. an Integra/ML/Parasound/EMO, etc.

Do you really think the QSC specs. for their PA Amps are in line w/ the other Mfg's. Audiophile amps?

 

[jinjuku]

Now, back to the OP's question -- Mark Levinson 433 vs Parasound 51

or ?

Why would you go with a PA Amp, like QSC or Behringer iNUKE vs. an Integra/ML/Parasound/EMO, etc.

Do you really think the QSC specs. for their PA Amps are in line w/ the other Mfg's. Audiophile amps?

Yes. I have a Parasound HCA1000A, I have a Crown XLS 402D. You are welcome to come over any time and stone cold tell me which is which with a towel thrown over them.

 

[haraldo]

The Mark Levinson may be like the old Jaguar E type I heard about, It's sensational when erything works but it's bl&%¤# expensive to service and you can get it all to work but not everything at the same time

btw it's not a long time since I saw a 2 channel Mark Levinson at a local shop here and I was shocked by the poor quality of the hardware, the terminals was poor plastic that seemed to eaily break if you twist too hard, the kind of stuff you'd expect in a $300 amplifier, this alone shocked me and would make me think twice before purchasing any ML products.... if it's so obviously poor quality on the outside, how about the inside that you don't see.... and you will never get schematics.... how do you know that there are no horrible shortcuts around there to save money.....

Not sure which ML model that is, could go back to shop and check........

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It seems to me that all the pro amps have fans (which could add noise), and some of them don't offer the unbalanced RCA connection & regular speaker connection?

 

[canelli]

Can you imagine what the custom installer is thinking?

I tend to hide my ignorance well up until I start talking.

It's sensational when erything works but it's bl&%¤# expensive to service and you can get it all to work but not everything at the same time

With all the discussion about repair cost, I did some searches on ML reliability and customer service. Neither did I find inspiring. Seems ML stopped repairing their own products and broken down / used gear is service via outsourcing which happens to be only two or three repair places. As it would seem, limiting support to only a few places just allows over charging and that is exactly what everyone was complaining about.

The consensus was a life of 6-10 years before getting hit with huge repair costs.

Is this normal life expectancy for a power amp or is this a problem with a certain type of capacitor?:eek

As far as Emotiva, I have considered them over and over. I keep getting stuck on the fact that the 5 channel is not normally highly received for music. If I had a lot of space, I’d love to buy a tower of mono amps.

I spoke with someone from Parasound a while back. They suggested I try a A52 (their smaller 5 channel) with an upgrade path to add in their larger two channel the A21. What concerns me is how the imaging would work with such differently powered amps on the center and the mains.

 

[DenPureSound]

Am in this research mode here, trying to figure out if the QSC PLX-1804 would match up w/ my two front Def. Tech. BP7001SC SuperTowers.

Def. Tech. rates this speaker at:

Recommended Associated Amplification = 20-600 Watts/channel.

Is that: To get the best sonic performance from your loudspeakers, QSC recommends that you power them with an amplifier that is rated for at least two times the loudspeaker's continuous power rating or equal to the loudspeaker's program power rating.

Def. Tech. did not know the answer on this one. I would think it is the loudspeakers program power rating. So, from the QSC site the PLX-1804 hits it right in the center of the amps range if 8Ω, but the speaker is Nominally at 6Ω.

My question is does anyone have experience w/ the Pro Audio amps vs. the Parasound, ML's, EMO's, etc. when running them in Stereo Mode.

The specs. look excellent on the PLX-1804 from what I can tell. States 2-tier Class H, any good?

QSC - PLX1804 Specifications

 

[DenPureSound]

It seems to me that all the pro amps have fans (which could add noise), and some of them don't offer the unbalanced RCA connection & regular speaker connection?

One would have to get some Speakon connectors to hook up the 12AWG wire to speakers, I do not know if all speakon connectors can handle banana plugs, and some RCA Male to XLR Male cables to go from Pre-outs of AVR over to Amp inputs.