Mark Levinson 433 vs Parasound 51

[jinjuku]

It seems to me that all the pro amps have fans (which could add noise), and some of them don't offer the unbalanced RCA connection & regular speaker connection?

Some do (fan mods) some have temp controlled fans that don't come on all that often and when they do you can't hear them due to the submarine getting depth charged or Gandalf laying the smack down on some unwitting denizen of the deep.

When I redo my entertainment center all amplification is going in the garage with a dry contact controlled outlet.

 

[jinjuku]

My question is does anyone have experience w/ the Pro Audio amps vs. the Parasound, ML's, EMO's, etc. when running them in Stereo Mode.

I do. See my previous post.

 

[jinjuku]

One would have to get some Speakon connectors to hook up the 12AWG wire to speakers, I do not know if all speakon connectors can handle banana plugs, and some RCA Male to XLR Male cables to go from Pre-outs of AVR over to Amp inputs.

Speakon handle speakon's. They are connection type. They are quick connects with built in strain relief and are a few $$'s at Partsexpress. They are minimal tool design. You just need a screw driver and a utility knife.

Knife for the cable prep and driver to tighten them into the Speakon. You tube it.

 

[jinjuku]

Am in this research mode here, trying to figure out if the QSC PLX-1804 would match up w/ my two front Def. Tech. BP7001SC SuperTowers.

Def. Tech. rates this speaker at:

Recommended Associated Amplification = 20-600 Watts/channel.

Is that: To get the best sonic performance from your loudspeakers, QSC recommends that you power them with an amplifier that is rated for at least two times the loudspeaker's continuous power rating or equal to the loudspeaker's program power rating.
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Is the 600 watts RMS? The QSC is rated 4 ohm. The QSC is rated 600 watt RMS at 8ohm and probably good for 900-1100 watts peak.

 

[Irvrobinson]

The Mark Levinson may be like the old Jaguar E type I heard about, It's sensational when erything works but it's bl&%¤# expensive to service and you can get it all to work but not everything at the same time

btw it's not a long time since I saw a 2 channel Mark Levinson at a local shop here and I was shocked by the poor quality of the hardware, the terminals was poor plastic that seemed to eaily break if you twist too hard, the kind of stuff you'd expect in a $300 amplifier, this alone shocked me and would make me think twice before purchasing any ML products.... if it's so obviously poor quality on the outside, how about the inside that you don't see.... and you will never get schematics.... how do you know that there are no horrible shortcuts around there to save money.....

Not sure which ML model that is, could go back to shop and check........

Nope, a 43x-series ML isn't like that. Exudes quality, inside and out. And they aren't like an E-type either, but I bet you had fun writing that.

The only problem with Levinsons is the potential repair cost. If you can't afford it you shouldn't buy them.

 

[psbfan9]

The OP asked for our opinion about a choice between a used Levinson and a Parasound.

Good point.

The thing I like most about the AH forum is the that more expensive name brand isn't always the best value and suggestions for more bang for buck oriented components are usually given. Seems to me that for wattage per channel, Emotiva offers great value.

 

[canelli]

I have no doubt about the value of emotiva products. They would fit my budget better. I have read some comments that are confusing such as:

"No, the XPA-2 doesn’t treat my music with the kid gloves that my much more expensive $7k Denon POA-A1HDCI amplifier is able to do, but it shares many of its sonic virtues while also besting it in sheer output power"

So what does that really mean and is there any reasonable differences?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have no doubt about the value of emotiva products. They would fit my budget better. I have read some comments that are confusing such as:

"No, the XPA-2 doesn’t treat my music with the kid gloves that my much more expensive $7k Denon POA-A1HDCI amplifier is able to do, but it shares many of its sonic virtues while also besting it in sheer output power"

So what does that really mean and is there any reasonable differences?

Most people cannot tell the SQ difference between a 200 WPC Emotiva & any other 200wpc amp, especially if they measure the same.

Most of us believe that amps don't have a sound of their own unless they are defective or something else is wrong.

We look at things like warranty, aesthetics, features, etc.

 

[GranteedEV]

Canelli, your guess is as good as mine what that person means by kid gloves.

My suggestion is not to fret too much about what people subjectively hear in functional amps. The differences assuming there any, as minute enough that they won't affect your listening pleasure. More current/voltage however is tough to replace.

 

[DenPureSound]

Yes. I have a Parasound HCA1000A, I have a Crown XLS 402D. You are welcome to come over any time and stone cold tell me which is which with a towel thrown over them.

Well, this says a lot that one could not really tell the difference between a Pro Audio amp, sold at Musicians Friends or an Audiophile Amp sold by Parasound, etc.

Then why would one want to spend $1,000's for an amp vs. just spending less than $1000 to buy a PA Amp like Crown/QSC/Behringer iNUKE, etc. for Musical content and/or HT?

Not only the cost factor, the weight factor in most cases is Major. Why does one care if the amp is Class A, Class A/B, Class D, or Class H? Can one really hear the difference?

 

[haraldo]

Most people cannot tell the SQ difference between a 200 WPC Emotiva & any other 200wpc amp, especially if they measure the same.

Most of us believe that amps don't have a sound of their own unless they are defective or something else is wrong.

We look at things like warranty, aesthetics, features, etc.

There are definite differences between amps and even from same manufacturer
I can refer to an auditioning of Vienna Acoustics Mahler using first Electrocompaniet AW 180, this combo didn't sound good at all... when switching to Electrocompaniet NEMO, it was like a totally different set of speakers, bass was clearly tighter and better and it sounded like lightning was coming out of the speakers... definite difference... there must however be something measurable that explains this, I thought it could be about output impedance but they're almost the same.... EC Nemo is actually bridged AW 180's so how could this be?
Nemo: Output Impedance (20 Hz-20kHz) < 0,009 Ohm
AW180: Output Impedance (20 Hz - 20 kHz) < 0,008 ohm

There are differences, but sometimes they may be in your imagination, sometimes not

But I'm not buying this that there will be no audible difference between the above mentioned amps, perhaps it's negligible, perhaps not....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There are definite differences between amps and even from same manufacturer
I can refer to an auditioning of Vienna Acoustics Mahler using first Electrocompaniet AW 180, this combo didn't sound good at all... when switching to Electrocompaniet NEMO, it was like a totally different set of speakers, bass was clearly tighter and better and it sounded like lightning was coming out of the speakers... definite difference... there must however be something measurable that explains this, I thought it could be about output impedance but they're almost the same.... EC Nemo is actually bridged AW 180's so how could this be?
Nemo: Output Impedance (20 Hz-20kHz) < 0,009 Ohm
AW180: Output Impedance (20 Hz - 20 kHz) < 0,008 ohm

There are differences, but sometimes they may be in your imagination, sometimes not

But I'm not buying this that there will be no audible difference between the above mentioned amps, perhaps it's negligible, perhaps not....

If you can hear the improvement in SQ even with the levels matched, then it's worth the cost difference.

A lot of us can't hear any significant improvement in SQ.

But some of us listen @ 80dBA, and some of us listen @ 95dBA.

But I won't say that no one can hear the difference since some people believe they can.

I wish I could hear the improvement because then I would have more excuses to buy more amps.

 

[jinjuku]

There are definite differences between amps and even from same manufacturer
I can refer to an auditioning of Vienna Acoustics Mahler using first Electrocompaniet AW 180, this combo didn't sound good at all... when switching to Electrocompaniet NEMO, it was like a totally different set of speakers, bass was clearly tighter and better and it sounded like lightning was coming out of the speakers... definite difference... there must however be something measurable that explains this, I thought it could be about output impedance but they're almost the same.... EC Nemo is actually bridged AW 180's so how could this be?
Nemo: Output Impedance (20 Hz-20kHz) < 0,009 Ohm
AW180: Output Impedance (20 Hz - 20 kHz) < 0,008 ohm

There are differences, but sometimes they may be in your imagination, sometimes not

But I'm not buying this that there will be no audible difference between the above mentioned amps, perhaps it's negligible, perhaps not....

The Nemo has ~4.5dB more head room for petes sake. If you were getting on it, as the saying goes, No **** Sherlock.

Did you compare the AW180 to another amp that had the same 8 Ohm capability as the NEMO?

When you say 'Lightening' was coming out of the speakers I take that to mean the listening levels were up there.

 

[haraldo]

The Nemo has ~4.5dB more head room for petes sake. If you were getting on it, as the saying goes, No **** Sherlock.

Did you compare the AW180 to another amp that had the same 8 Ohm capability?

When you say 'Lightening' was coming out of the speakers I take that to mean the listening levels were up there.

I did not perform auditioning with everything calibrated to a reference level using a CERN certified SPL meter but I can say for 100% sure this is not due to differences in listening level as the main problem with the AW180 is that the bass is "hanging around in the room" and seeminlgy quite uncontrolled, while with the NEMO at same listening level it's not so, but clearly more musical... In this case it's not my imagination.... in other cases it can be due to listening levels and other apspects but in this case I will insist it's due to difference in amps

In this case it's the amplifier's ability to control the two difficult Eton 12" bass drivers, I still believe it must have something to do with impedance matching in the 40 to 80 Hz region....

I did never compare AW180 to other amps....

In the beginning when I compared AW180 to Nemo it was quite level matched, but as previosly stated not using NASA certified SPL meters to make it within 0.000000001 dB but by ear

So I cannot quantify this as a scientific evidence.....

After a while... later listening levels were up there.... yes

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well, this says a lot that one could not really tell the difference between a Pro Audio amp, sold at Musicians Friends or an Audiophile Amp sold by Parasound, etc.

Then why would one want to spend $1,000's for an amp vs. just spending less than $1000 to buy a PA Amp like Crown/QSC/Behringer iNUKE, etc. for Musical content and/or HT?

Not only the cost factor, the weight factor in most cases is Major. Why does one care if the amp is Class A, Class A/B, Class D, or Class H? Can one really hear the difference?

Endless debate regarding amp differences. It's a hobby. If friends believe they can tell the differences and improvements, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Just like bi-wiring and bi-amping. I will give all the benefit of the doubt. I can only speak of my own limitations based on my experiences.

The obvious difference to me are the logistics and aesthetics. Regular HT amps don't use speakon cables and will have at least the RCA unbalanced connections. Just one example.

 

[cpp]

Then why would one want to spend $1,000's for an amp vs. just spending less than $1000 to buy a PA Amp like Crown/QSC/Behringer iNUKE, etc. for Musical content and/or HT?

because they have the funds to buy what they want, not what people might think.

 

[haraldo]

because they have the funds to buy what they want, not what people might think.

The beauty of this hobby is to make an affordable system that makes you enjoy the music.... it's not so difficult to make an expensive system that sounds good but to make it affordable requires an audiophile ninja ....

 

[jinjuku]

Well, this says a lot that one could not really tell the difference between a Pro Audio amp, sold at Musicians Friends or an Audiophile Amp sold by Parasound, etc.

You didn't understand: I am saying YOU CAN'T tell me which is the audiophile amp with any statistical significance in a 10 round test.

Then why would one want to spend $1,000's for an amp vs. just spending less than $1000 to buy a PA Amp like Crown/QSC/Behringer iNUKE, etc. for Musical content and/or HT?

That's a question anyone purchasing an amp should ask themselves. Have you setup a scenario with a well respected Pro-Audio amp and an Audiophile equivalent?

I've owned Adcom, Parasound. I've had NAD/Emo/Classe for audition. I own Crown/Behringer.

There is a lot of ignorance out there DPS...

 

[jinjuku]

The beauty of this hobby is to make an affordable system that makes you enjoy the music.... it's not so difficult to make an expensive system that sounds good but to make it affordable requires an audiophile ninja ....

Actually a table saw, router, and soldering iron

 

[haraldo]

Actually a table saw, router, and soldering iron

yes, agree