Dream Speakers Under $6,000 Retail

[PENG]

The B&Ws are still voiced to sound correct in... a specific room. So in the right room i don't see why they wouldn't sound great. It's just that they'll sound different in other rooms. I suspect the Aperions and EMPs are mostly in this boat, as well as some of the Salks. And of course each speaker's sensitivity to the room varies - not cut and dry.

the KEFs / Pioneer EXs / Salk Soundscape / Revels / Philharmonics / Geddes / Genelecs should reasonably maintain their sound signature across different rooms. Not only sound signature, but perception of clarity with respect to intensity and response of reflections, toe in, and sweet spot.

So who knows... in the same room/seat you've heard the B&Ws in... ADTG might have liked them! In the same ones he heard them in, you might have hated them.

It's not just about getting some 2" panels to tame a tweeter... it's about the entire room / speaker interaction. Like TLS Guy pointes out - the best systems are ones where the room and speaker are in tune with each other. Speakers with smooth off axis like the Pioneer EX (hint hint hint hint) make that aspect easier. Speakers with very narrow directivity, like the geddes ones, reduce the room's impact. speakers with very wide directivity like the Linkwitz Pluto, illuminate the room more aggressively which can be a bad thing bit also a good thing if the room is correct for a job. So to simulatenously respond to accusation of mental masturbation - no, that ain't the point. The point is to find a speaker / room combination that works. If starting from scratch - why not?

If you look at the documentation for Pluto its placement requirements are very unique. not just 'put against wall and enjoy'. So i agree it ain't practical but that doesn't mean it can't be someone else's dream speaker. My approach would be to analyze every situation individually. Speakers without EXCELLENT off axis response need not apply-whether it's wide, or narrow pattern. Then audition them for yourself. If something's off, would EQ correct it... or not?

It all makes sense to me, I was just teasing ADTG with the B&W diamonds.

 

[PENG]

Please show me where I said the Sig 8's were in my top five. If I did say that, it was a mistake and I need to fix it. I'm so confused why I would have said that...

In post#358 you provide a list for DPS to research, S8 (used: and I asked you if you factored in their price as a reason for "used") was in the 4th. Looking at it now I thought it was your top 5 for speakers under $6K because in your opening paragraph your had mentioned "top 5". It is obviously my mistake so there is no need to fix it. I came in this thread late and didn't read it from the beginning.

 

[PENG]

So my rebuttal is this. What if the S6 sound great in the dealer's room because they match well there, but end up sounding mediocre in your room because they don't match well with your room?

You are confusing me. I thought your room is near perfect and it does not need any room EQ. My room is kind of like that too but likely not near as good as yours. Anyway if all those rooms are not near perfect then most things you said would make sense. End of debate??

 

[DenPureSound]

Anyone with a Pink Floyd Poster on the Wall knows their stuff... way to go Walter. Just got there remastered dual CD set here, and it is excellent.

As you know, I had 3 BMW's and they all fell apart at the seems, sold them all... I should of bought that LEXUS, hahaha... right on.

We used to have Harman Kardon, Akai, (2) Yamahas, SAE Amps, and SAE Racks with Altec Lansing and some custom speakers by Tom Gates from Canada as well and some really fine DWD speakers out of Fresno, CA. that we all rocked out w/ in the 70's - they were awesome also. We still have our Sansui TA-500 and it still is playing like brand new, now of course DENON and the KLIPSCH's we ALL LOVE that can ROCK OUT, but need a NEW ROCK OUT Upgrade, if that is even possible -- I wonder, not Aperion VGT's, maybe NHT Fours or maybe KEF Q900 or R900's, or maybe in the end run just go up the Klipsch lineup to the big bad boys RF-7II's (at $2.2K per Pair) -- the later will certainly Kick IT UP and UP AGAIN - some formula PWK had in his pocket when he died a few yrs. ago!

What other speaker has dual 10" drivers, w/ the 1 3/4" titanium tweeter/horn weighs in at 87 Pounds w/ 101dB Sensitivity and will handle 250W RMS or 1000W Peak, and will shake the walls w/ sound for $2200 per Pair delivered to your door?

I am all ears if that can be topped, but I certainly stayed way under the $6K thread limit imposed by the rich OP.

 

[Nuance AH]

I just thought I'd share the lovely private message (no longer private) that DenPureSound felt necessary to send me today:

Your just a BIG A_Hole eh...

Grow UP A_Hole -- do not appreciate your Crap, and quit Trolling

Get some education and learn something besides B.S.

The Accuton C90 is bigger than you think it is. Sd is ~80cm^2.

A 4" driver (e.g. the ScanSpeak Disco 10F or Audax HM100Z0) will be less than half of that.

Though I did think the crossover was higher than it is (I'll assume you're right), there will still not be what I'd consider an acceptable directivity match under those constraints. Certainly not one like to a concident/Dual Concentric driver with proper crossover, or a tweeter firing through a waveguide the same size as or slightly larger than the driver below it.

So despite Jim Salk's obvious woodworking chops and Dr. Murphy's crossover design skills and voicing talent, I still say that such a speaker is not of a kind with consistent-directivity narrow pattern speakers (GedLee, Tannoy, Genelec, JBL Synthesis, KEF*, Pioneer Elite/TAD*) or consistent-directivity wider pattern speakers (Revel, JBL LSR32/LSR6332).

*The KEF Uni-Q and progeny (Pioneer/TAD) tend to converge on a 90deg pattern, but lose pattern control higher in frequency than speakers with larger mids. Except for the smaller ones, which seem to have wider patterns.

Are you a speaker designer?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You are confusing me. I thought your room is near perfect and it does not need any room EQ. My room is kind of like that too but likely not near as good as yours. Anyway if all those rooms are not near perfect then most things you said would make sense. End of debate??

Debate over. Class dismiss.

 

[Nuance AH]

In post#358 you provide a list for DPS to research, S8 (used: and I asked you if you factored in their price as a reason for "used") was in the 4th. Looking at it now I thought it was your top 5 for speakers under $6K because in your opening paragraph your had mentioned "top 5". It is obviously my mistake so there is no need to fix it. I came in this thread late and didn't read it from the beginning.

Sorry for the confusion buddy; my statement should have been more clear. It's all good, though.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...I should of bought that LEXUS...

...I wonder, not Aperion VGT's, maybe NHT Fours or maybe KEF Q900 or R900's, or maybe in the end run just go up the Klipsch lineup to the big bad boys RF-7II's...

Yes, Lexus rules. I used to own the Lexus LS400, & they are sweet & reliable.

I think in the end, after you audition the Classic Four, ML, R900, & Q900, you will end up buying the Q900 + dual Rythmik FV12. You will also later add the Q200 center & Q100 surrounds.

 

[cpp]

Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post


...I should of bought that LEXUS..

We love ours GS-350 & LS-460

Den just buy the Kef's, you know you want them.

 

[walter duque]

Yes, Lexus rules. I used to own the Lexus LS400, & they are sweet & reliable.

I think in the end, after you audition the Classic Four, ML, R900, & Q900, you will end up buying the Q900 + dual Rythmik FV12. You will also later add the Q200 center & Q100 surrounds.

Besides that Lexus rules, that's a great choice of speakers. That combination should kick. I would go for it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

We love ours GS-350 & LS-460

Den just buy the Kef's, you know you want them.

Besides that Lexus rules, that's a great choice of speakers. Than combination should kick. I would go for it.

I believe DenPureSound will have to change his avatar back to KEF again.

Crystal clear sound & detail

Excellent measurements (per John Atkinson @ Stereophile & also Home Theater Mag)

Prestigious big name company

Big bold drivers & speakers

That is it for DenPureSound.

 

[PENG]

Yes, Lexus rules. I used to own the Lexus LS400, & they are sweet & reliable.

I think in the end, after you audition the Classic Four, ML, R900, & Q900, you will end up buying the Q900 + dual Rythmik FV12. You will also later add the Q200 center & Q100 surrounds.

I urged him to go for the R900, not the Q900. He said he could get it for $3,500? Assuming that comes with an original factory warranty it should be a no brainer. I have the feeling that the R900 will sound as good as the 203/2 for 2 to 3K less. What you lose is the great look of the 200 series.

The Q900 may be 2K cheaper but it could be a 1.5K mistake, like his previous experience with the one he just returned. Remember his objective is to gain in SQ without losing much volume, relative to his beloved Klipsch's.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I urged him to go for the R900, not the Q900. He said he could get it for $3,500? Assuming that comes with an original factory warranty it should be a no brainer. I have the feeling that the R900 will sound as good as the 203/2 for 2 to 3K less. What you lose is the great look of the 200 series.

The Q900 may be 2K cheaper but it could be a 1.5K mistake, like his previous experience with the one he just returned. Remember his objective is to gain in SQ without losing much volume, relative to his beloved Klipsch's.

Yes, the R900 can be had for $3500.

It is much nicer than the Q900. Definitely.

But the Q900 can be had brand new from the same place I PM you for like $1200, so it is more of a $2300 difference.

Here is the big question. For everyone.

What if you auditioned both the Q900 & R900 side by side, and you could not even tell the difference? Not one bit difference whatsoever?

Would you spend the extra $2300?

Or use it for dual FV12 + Q200 + dual Q100?

 

[billy p]

Yes, the R900 can be had for $3500.

It is much nicer than the Q900. Definitely.

But the Q900 can be had brand new from the same place I PM you for like $1200, so it is more of a $2300 difference.

Here is the big question. For everyone.

What if you auditioned both the Q900 & R900 side by side, and you could not even tell the difference? Not one bit difference whatsoever?

Would you spend the extra $2300?

Or use it for dual FV12 + Q200 + dual Q100?

I dunno....aesthetic play a major role but maybe not for 2300.00 as I've stated before the Q's are just plain ugly..imho.

 

[PENG]

I dunno....aesthetic play a major role but maybe not for 2300.00 as I've stated before the Q's are just plain ugly..imho.

I agree, their looks will take some time to get used to but that applies to the R as well, just slightly less so.

 

[PENG]

Yes, the R900 can be had for $3500.

It is much nicer than the Q900. Definitely.

But the Q900 can be had brand new from the same place I PM you for like $1200, so it is more of a $2300 difference.

Here is the big question. For everyone.

What if you auditioned both the Q900 & R900 side by side, and you could not even tell the difference? Not one bit difference whatsoever?

Would you spend the extra $2300?

Or use it for dual FV12 + Q200 + dual Q100?

No likely not, but that is a big IF. My bet is that side by side he can hear the difference.

 

[Warpdrv]

Yeah. You are probably right. But here is my rebuttal (we're in debate class)

Initially both Nuance & Warpdrv thought the S8v3 sounded great.

But after comparing the S8 to the Salk speakers, both thought the Salks sounded better. Now, to both of them, the S8 is no longer as great a speaker it once was.

Relativity. Thus it is very important to compare as many different speakers as possible.

It may be that after you've compared all the different speaker, you still love the sound of the S8.

But aren't you concerned at all that both Warpdrv & Nuance changed their minds after comparing to the Salk?

Yes I am concerned with the fact that Warp changed his mind. To debate this further, so what if Nuance and Warp changed their minds again, they did so once, or twice, so who knows.

WOW you guys really want to read into this way farther then needs to be read....

I will state that I HAVE NOT changed my mind on my S8's. They are going no-where and will remain in my home for a very long time... I love the sound from them, and they are extremely great performers both on axis and off.... If you don't like them, then don't.... They make many many different speakers for different reasons and buyers ears...

Do I like the Salks - hell yes, but there is no way in gods creation that they will ever fill the shoes of what I am getting out of the Digm's period... Do they sound sweeter then the S8's - YES.... but in the room I have my Digm's a speaker that is as inefficient as the Salks - they'll just never cut the mustard.

My great room for me is for entertaining - I have lots of people over to my house and things tend to get bumpin, and at times really loud. The Salks could never keep up and without stressing out the drivers from heat exhaustion, and at that point in time will more then likely sound like CR@P. I also run the Digm's for an explosive HT scenario, again something which the Salks could never keep up with...

My new Salks are spectacular with the intricacies of critical listening music - which is why they are relegated to my small room setup and I do love their sonic presention for such over the Digms...

Lets not try to put words in my mouth - I've already stated at other GTG's that I preferred the Salks before I even owned them in shootouts with the S8's... The S8's fit many peoples needs and wants, some are more discerning then others, and IMO I think they are a bit overpriced, thankfully I didn't pay anything near what they are asking these days for them....


FWIW - from what I recall, Def Tech's were the greatest speakers there ever were, and what happened to those things...?
You have been on a roll buying speakers

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

No likely not, but that is a big IF. My bet is that side by side he can hear the difference.

If DenPureSound thinks the R900 sounds even slightly better - more detail, resolution, accuracy, etc., then that is the clear choice.

But we will have to wait until sometime in January when the dealer gets the R900. They already have the Q900 now.

With the grills on, you guys think the R900 looks much better than Q900?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

FWIW - from what I recall, Def Tech's were the greatest speakers there ever were, and what happened to those things...?
You have been on a roll buying speakers

I still regret ever selling my DefTech BP7000.

I keep on thinking that one day soon Amazon will have a clearance on those 165lbs BP7000 towers for like 80% off & I will buy them again.

They can play loud. Much louder for parties than Orion, Philharmonic, or KEF.

The only thing they lack is some finer detail/accuracy/resolution in the midrange. Other than that they sound crystal clear with smooth highs and tremendous bass.

 

[Nuance AH]

Yes, the R900 can be had for $3500.

It is much nicer than the Q900. Definitely.

But the Q900 can be had brand new from the same place I PM you for like $1200, so it is more of a $2300 difference.

Here is the big question. For everyone.

What if you auditioned both the Q900 & R900 side by side, and you could not even tell the difference? Not one bit difference whatsoever?

Would you spend the extra $2300?

Or use it for dual FV12 + Q200 + dual Q100?

Heck no I wouldn't spend more on the R900's. I'd build two LMS5400 sealed subwoofers with the extra coin.

Hmm...the R900's look a little better compared to the Q's because the grill isn't a full one. They are both ugly looking speakers, though. Aesthetics are important, but sound comes first baby (my speakersn't aren't exactly sexy)!