Aperion Audio Verus Grand Loudspeaker System Reviewed

[gene]

I am quite familiar with your tech articles as i am also with all of Audioholics posted reviews on speakers.

AH states that it has a protocol, but each reviewer chooses to measure the speakers as he deems is the "best" method to measure said speaker. That choice of method introduces subjectivity. Some speakers are measured at 1/2 meter, 1 meter, or almost three meters. The mic location, room, and each reviewers tendencies as well as modifications to their testing protocol over time will introduce inconsistencies.

AH has even had the same speaker measured by two different reviewers. The results were such that it appeared that two different speakers were measured. The measuring of a speaker in a quasi-anechoic environment is open to the interpretation of the reviewer. Sometimes anomalies in those measurements are written off as artifacts without a solid reasoning behind the statement. It must be taken on faith.

Time gating measurements, is also determined by the reviewer based on his understanding of the room being used. If any of the parameters that the reviewer sets is slightly skewed it will influence the results. Also, frequency resolution is lost when time gating measurements. This would take a 1/12 resolution and start bringing towards the dreaded 1/3 octave resolution.

The use of summed near-field response should not be used at all. The technique is open to many flaws. As stated by Gene "More often than not, reviewers (myself included) tend to botch the summed low frequency response by being overly optimistic in the summation process between the bass drivers and the port(s)."

I disagree with Gene that I am providing misinformation. I am just making observations based on what is provided in the reviews.

The scientific method should be very systematic and should have repeatable results. It should be as objective as possible to reduce biased results.

Measuring multi driver loudspeakers is a lot more complex than measuring a single driver subwoofer or speaker. This is why measurements are often done at different distances to the speaker. When doing in-room measurements, you want to measure a speaker as closely as possible to minimize room interaction. A two-way bookshelf sums at 1/2 meter but a truncated line array like the RBH T30 doesn't till almost 3 meters. Since we aren't usually after max SPL this is a non issue. We often consult with the loudspeaker engineer for the particular product under review to get their recommendation for measuring their speaker most accurately.

Yes summed nearfield responses can be problematic and are often not done correctly. However most of the print magazines do just that and worse off their resolution is limited to 1/3 octave.

Almost all of our measurements, unless otherwise stated are 1/12 octave or higher resolution.

I recommend reading this article that discusses all of this:
Audio Measurements: The Useful vs. the Bogus in Consumer Audio — Reviews and News from Audioholics

Room artifacts vs speaker artifacts are usually easy to decipher if the reviewer also does nearfield driver measurements and impedance measurements to determine what is going on. We often do this but don't publish all the data to keep the review length readable. We also consult with the loudspeaker designer when possible to get their measured data to determine what is real vs artifact. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes the average reader likely doesn't realize.

We take the accuracy of our reporting very seriously and do our best to produce the best measurement data our reviewers and lab conditions provide.

In the case with the Aperion's we measured, our data closely matches what the engineers at Aperion have also provided us. This is usually the case when we measure loudspeakers and subwoofers which is why EVERY manufacturer gets to peer review our results prior to publishing.

You're "observations" seem a bit more cynical to me than you are implying in your posts so check your tone next time you try to broad brush our testing methodology. I take a very grim view of this given the enormous efforts my staff and I place on rigidly testing products and investing in the test equipment to do so.

 

[DenPureSound]

You don't plan to compare them to any other speaker on your list other than what you already have in your home?

I am sure most of us on AH would compare to other speakers, especially if other Mfg's. had Aperions 30 day trial period w/ paid for two-way shipping!

Aperion must feel that works for them, and they have one great speaker w/ very few returns.

They "Aperion" must be very confident in their speakers, and it would be nice to see all other Mfg's. having that "Audition Model".

 

[cschang]

I am sure most of us on AH would compare to other speakers, especially if other Mfg's. had Aperions 30 day trial period w/ paid for two-way shipping!

Aperion must feel that works for them, and they have one great speaker w/ very few returns.

They "Aperion" must be very confident in their speakers, and it would be nice to see all other Mfg's. having that "Audition Model".

So the answer is "no"?

You do realize, while it is a good model, that the cost of shipping is built into the selling price of the speaker, and that a percentage of returns is factored in.

 

[Nuance AH]

Nuance AH -- it is 27.7 deg. F outside air temp in the shade right now, so glad Aperion has a Velvet Bag around them.

Going to let them settle in to room temp. (72 deg. F) for some time ... before they get some Current running through them.

Then they are recommending about 40-50 hrs. of Break-In time.

Remember my baseline is DWD speakers in the late 70's, then Infinity RS-625/325, etc., then Yamaha HTIB, then Infinity Classias, then Klipsch Ref. '82ii Series, and now VGT's, and that is the Journey to my "Dream Speakers" so far...

Good call concerning letting them warm up.

40-50 hours of break-in? Hehe...

 

[DenPureSound]

So the answer is "no"?

You do realize, while it is a good model, that the cost of shipping is built into the selling price of the speaker, and that a percentage of returns is factored in.

What makes you state only a "Good" model, most think it is a "Great" model.

Excellent way to try out a set of speakers!

 

[DenPureSound]

So the answer is "no"?

You do realize, while it is a good model, that the cost of shipping is built into the selling price of the speaker, and that a percentage of returns is factored in.

Excellent way to try out a set of speakers -- maybe you should try them out, and writeup a review on them as I am sure most on AH would love to hear all your constructive knowledge/comments on the Verus Grand Towers (Oh, I forgot, your working for Ascend Acoustics!)

Verus Grand Towers earned the Audioholics coveted 2010 Product of the Year Award. Highly Recommended!, that to me says a lot as I trust Tom, and Gene and the others at Audioholics.

 

[DenPureSound]

Good call concerning letting them warm up.

40-50 hours of break-in? Hehe...

Yeppers, KEF on the R Series from their Engr. Dept. told me to run them in around 100 hrs. until the dual 8" woofs start moving around 1-2mm.!

I like the 40-50 hrs. -- sounds better to me. That must be the diff. of Mag/Alum. vs. Woven Kevlar for the cone materials.

 

[Calvin Hobbes]

Yep! That cone material is breaking up...

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Yeppers, KEF on the R Series from their Engr. Dept. told me to run them in around 100 hrs. until the dual 8" woofs start moving around 1-2mm.!

I like the 40-50 hrs. -- sounds better to me. That must be the diff. of Mag/Alum. vs. Woven Kevlar for the cone materials.

I'm not doubting that the specs of heavy duty woofers will change somewhat with some play-in time to flex the surrounds and suspension. But 40-100 hours? Is there a scientific basis for that? And major changes? I've used some petty beefy woofers in my designs, and if anyone doesn't like what they hear when they first fire one up, then they just don't like my design. It's not going to change significantly in day 2 or day 100.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You do realize, while it is a good model, that the cost of shipping is built into the selling price of the speaker, and that a percentage of returns is factored in.

We all realize this. But at least we know where some of the money went.

With some companies, they just rip you off for no good reason. And they don't even sound good.

I like buying speakers from honest builders who are in it for the passion of music and speakers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yep! That cone material is breaking up...

While some of us do not believe in "breaking in" speakers, I suppose it doesn't hurt.

GranteedEV and DenPureSound know I don't believe in a lot of things.

......except for buying more speakers.

 

[GranteedEV]

I've had my maelstrom in action for a good 11 months now....
...
....I'm still waiting for that break in thing to happen

Actually I'd prefer no break ins. I paid good money for my gear. That's what burglar alarms are for. If it's only taking 50-100 hours for some theif to notice you've got new speakers, you must live in one dangerous area.

 

[cschang]

What makes you state only a "Good" model, most think it is a "Great" model.

Excellent way to try out a set of speakers!

Excellent way to try out a set of speakers -- maybe you should try them out, and writeup a review on them as I am sure most on AH would love to hear all your constructive knowledge/comments on the Verus Grand Towers (Oh, I forgot, your working for Ascend Acoustics!)

Verus Grand Towers earned the Audioholics coveted 2010 Product of the Year Award. Highly Recommended!, that to me says a lot as I trust Tom, and Gene and the others at Audioholics.

Don't work for Ascend...

Just trying to figure out after all your posts, why you don't want to compare.

 

[DenPureSound]

I'm not doubting that the specs of heavy duty woofers will change somewhat with some play-in time to flex the surrounds and suspension. But 40-100 hours? Is there a scientific basis for that? And major changes? I've used some petty beefy woofers in my designs, and if anyone doesn't like what they hear when they first fire one up, then they just don't like my design. It's not going to change significantly in day 2 or day 100.

DM, no one has supported any of their quotes for Break-In time mathematically, and/or from a test/meas. perspective.

Where they get these numbers from I have no idea, and totally agree with you, unless someone proves otherwise w/ some scientific basis supporting their claims.

Speaker Break In: Fact or Fiction? — Reviews and News from Audioholics

 

[rushwj]

I'd like to hear what people have compared these to in their evaluations or what they've switched from when they got them.

 

[Nuance AH]

I'd like to hear what people have compared these to in their evaluations or what they've switched from when they got them.

Just read the thread. Seriously, though, there are a few comparos if I'm not mistaken.

 

[zieglj01]

no one has supported any of their quotes for Break-In time mathematically, and/or from a test/meas. perspective.
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All I can say is, that from the many, many speakers which I have owned,
most of them have broken me in! Just to be fair, I will give them at least
13 min and 8.4697 seconds, to start with.

 

[rushwj]

Just read the thread. Seriously, though, there are a few comparos if I'm not mistaken.

I've kept up with a fair amount of the thread, but haven't seen any recent solid comparisons. Open to any good evaluations, but also really interested in comparisons with paradigm studio line.

 

[DenPureSound]

All I can say is, that from the many, many speakers which I have owned,
most of them have broken me in! Just to be fair, I will give them at least
13 min and 8.4697 seconds, to start with.

Aperion just sent me an email that states:

"3) Speaker Break-In. Your speakers should sound great right out of the box. But once they’ve been played for 50 100 hours (doesn’t matter what kind of music you use) they will start to sound more natural and balanced. This is known as break-in and is completely normal."

I do not believe in this at all, that is a Myth as many that have hundreds of years in the business will tell you that speaker break-in is not required.

My quote is "They are how they sound" -- if you like them, keep them, if not buy another speaker. The sound is not going to change after 50 or 100 hrs. at all, no way Jose!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Aperion just sent me an email that states:

"3) Speaker Break-In. Your speakers should sound great right out of the box. But once they’ve been played for 50 100 hours (doesn’t matter what kind of music you use) they will start to sound more natural and balanced. This is known as break-in and is completely normal."

I do not believe in this at all, that is a Myth as many that have hundreds of years in the business will tell you that speaker break-in is not required.

My quote is "They are how they sound" -- if you like them, keep them, if not buy another speaker. The sound is not going to change after 50 or 100 hrs. at all, no way Jose!

That is the second time Aperion has given false information IMO that I can recall.

The first time, I recall Aperion told someone that his Yamaha AVR (which I recall was highly rated w/ awesome measurements) wasn't GOOD enough! They recommended a different AVR - as if that would sweeten up the sound or something?

Now they recommend this BS about speaker break - in?

What's next? Aperion cables improve sound quality?

They are full of it. I just cannot wholeheartedly recommend Aperion anymore.