Aperion Audio Verus Grand Loudspeaker System Reviewed

[DenPureSound]

Wouldn't the anomalies & adverse effects show up on the measurements on Audioholics and HTM?

Those recessed edges have been addressed by the Aperion Engineering dept. and you are 100% correct they are in the measured plots for FR, as I just got off the phone w/ Aperion.

Oliver at Aperion states that the best measurements are with the Grills ON, not off, and that will work fine with me as I want the grills on.

BTW -- they recommend using a Microfiber cloth to clean the driver cones of any dust.

OK Facts --

Knowing the Speed of Sound = 1087 ft./sec. for medium=air, at 0 deg. C

So, for 20kHz.

(1087 ft/s) / (20,000 cyc/s) = [0.05435 ft. x 12 in./ft.] = 0.6522 inches [knowing cycles like radians are Dimensionless]

Now, even with a 0.25 inch recess on the front baffles edges, the wavelength at 20kHz. being much larger than the recess will not effect it.

Hopefully, this will technically explain that issue, but I am sure it should open up another Audiophiles perspective.

I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR DENNIS MURPHY'S EXPERIENCE IN THIS AREA OF EXPERTISE !!

 

[DenPureSound]

It is a good question - if we really were, maybe we would be spending
less time on the forums. To me, audiophile more or less means - I am
aiming for the next product that I want, and cannot afford. However,
if we can find that golden nugget, at a good price - maybe we can slow
the audioholic disease down.

Jim,

I like to look at it that we all want to DREAM on, and I really enjoy Xmas with a good bottle and some fine tunes, but I hate the morning after when I can't remember how good or bad the SQ was.

Den

 

[DenPureSound]

That certainly could be problematic. Is that rubber or wood? It does seem strange.

OK, here we have the right to disagree. My above post technically clarified why it is not even an issue at 20kHz. and below.

Why do you see it as Problematic?

The measured FR plots was with the grill on and doesn't show any effects I can see.

The enclosures are finished in Wood Veneer.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

if we really were, maybe we would be spending
less time on the forums.

I disagree with this. I feel that being on here is like hanging out with "the guys". It's part of the hobby.

 

[DenPureSound]

I disagree with this. I feel that being on here is like hanging out with "the guys". It's part of the hobby.

The fun is having the tunes ON, and sharing learning experiences and knowledge on our Journey to the "ULTIMATE" sound quality -- like you have ADTG -- flagship DENON's, SALON 2's, KEF's Reference Series... darn I am JEALOUS again.

 

[zieglj01]

I disagree with this. I feel that being on here is like hanging out with "the guys". It's part of the hobby.

We will never completely leave - I have to see where you are going next.
And what measurements, you will pull up.

 

[DenPureSound]

We will never completely leave - I have to see where you are going next.
And what measurements, you will pull up.

Next in line is ADTG's DM's Philharmonic Audio PHIL 3 review/writeup how nice they are with the ScanSpeak woof, BG planar, and RAAL Ribbon Tweeter.

Are you getting anxious there ADTG?

I hope for you and us, certainly by Xmas?

Do you have a scheduled Delivery Date on your Phil 3 Pair? I know one thing DM will not release them to you until they are TOTALLY DIALED IN ... YOU CAN COUNT ON THAT ONE.

 

[zieglj01]

Next in line is ADTG's DM's Philharmonic Audio PHIL 3 review/writeup how nice they are with the ScanSpeak woof, BG planar, and RAAL Ribbon Tweeter.

You never know - he may even change his name after this!

 

[DenPureSound]

You never know - he may even change his name after this!

Funny you stated that --

My better half changed his name this AM to -- Prescription for Sound !!

 

[Calvin Hobbes]

Those recessed edges have been addressed by the Aperion Engineering dept. and you are 100% correct they are in the measured plots for FR, as I just got off the phone w/ Aperion.

Oliver at Aperion states that the best measurements are with the Grills ON, not off, and that will work fine with me as I want the grills on.

BTW -- they recommend using a Microfiber cloth to clean the driver cones of any dust.

OK Facts --

Knowing the Speed of Sound = 1087 ft./sec. for medium=air, at 0 deg. C

So, for 20kHz.

(1087 ft/s) / (20,000 cyc/s) = [0.05435 ft. x 12 in./ft.] = 0.6522 inches [knowing cycles like radians are Dimensionless]

Now, even with a 0.25 inch recess on the front baffles edges, the wavelength at 20kHz. being much larger than the recess will not effect it.

Hopefully, this will technically explain that issue, but I am sure it should open up another Audiophiles perspective.

I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR DENNIS MURPHY'S EXPERIENCE IN THIS AREA OF EXPERTISE !!

That is not quite how edge diffraction works...

I would also expect it to affect the midrange more than anything else. As with most things in life, there is usually more than one way to solve a problem. But why introduce the problem in the first place?

In room measurements are inherently flawed, in particular when measuring at a distance of one meter. This does not allow the speakers to sum correctly. MTM designs and PSB Synchrony's would be some types of speakers that would be greatly affected by this.

Audioholics measurements using non standard procedures by different people in different rooms should be taken with a grain of salt, if not altogether thrown out. It makes good conversation, but is ultimately a disservice to the public when it is stated that any measurements is better than none.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Next in line is ADTG's DM's Philharmonic Audio PHIL 3 review/writeup how nice they are with the ScanSpeak woof, BG planar, and RAAL Ribbon Tweeter.

Are you getting anxious there ADTG?

I hope for you and us, certainly by Xmas?

Do you have a scheduled Delivery Date on your Phil 3 Pair? I know one thing DM will not release them to you until they are TOTALLY DIALED IN ... YOU CAN COUNT ON THAT ONE.

I'm thinking next are the Philharmonic 3 & also another pair of KEF 201/2 to complete the original set.

Beyond that, probably a new house w/ custom HT room.

Then you guys can help me with the room treatments. Did.......... I............. just............say.....that?

 

[cschang]

That is not quite how edge diffraction works...

I would also expect it to affect the midrange more than anything else. As with most things in life, there is usually more than one way to solve a problem. But why introduce the problem in the first place?

In room measurements are inherently flawed, in particular when measuring at a distance of one meter. This does not allow the speakers to sum correctly. MTM designs and PSB Synchrony's would be some types of speakers that would be greatly affected by this.

Audioholics measurements using non standard procedures by different people in different rooms should be taken with a grain of salt, if not altogether thrown out. It makes good conversation, but is ultimately a disservice to the public when it is stated that any measurements is better than none.

In 100% agreement.

As far as edge diffraction, if it did work the way as Aperion explained, then there would be no reason for rounded corners, flush mounted drivers...or small waveguides on tweeters for that matter.

 

[Nuance AH]

Well, I did tell ADTG so here we go...

By this Weekend the Fed-X truck should show up with Two New Cherry Wood Finished Aperion Verus Grand Towers, in so that I can drag those "Shrilling" Klipsch Horns out of the room, and get some Great Mid-Range back.

Duuuuude, that rocks - congrats! I expect a full write-up ASAP.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Those recessed edges have been addressed by the Aperion Engineering dept. and you are 100% correct they are in the measured plots for FR, as I just got off the phone w/ Aperion.

Oliver at Aperion states that the best measurements are with the Grills ON, not off, and that will work fine with me as I want the grills on.

BTW -- they recommend using a Microfiber cloth to clean the driver cones of any dust.

OK Facts --

Knowing the Speed of Sound = 1087 ft./sec. for medium=air, at 0 deg. C

So, for 20kHz.

(1087 ft/s) / (20,000 cyc/s) = [0.05435 ft. x 12 in./ft.] = 0.6522 inches [knowing cycles like radians are Dimensionless]

Now, even with a 0.25 inch recess on the front baffles edges, the wavelength at 20kHz. being much larger than the recess will not effect it.

Hopefully, this will technically explain that issue, but I am sure it should open up another Audiophiles perspective.

I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR DENNIS MURPHY'S EXPERIENCE IN THIS AREA OF EXPERTISE !!

I really couldn't comment on this without seeing the towers in person and investigating the surrounding surface that the tweeter and mids see with the grill attached. All I can say is that typical diffraction effects will occur at much lower frequencies than 20kHz. For tweeters, they're usually an issue in the 2k - 6k region. 20k is irrelevant. (And who could hear a diffraction effect at 20k even if it occurred?)

 

[gene]

Audioholics measurements using non standard procedures by different people in different rooms should be taken with a grain of salt, if not altogether thrown out. It makes good conversation, but is ultimately a disservice to the public when it is stated that any measurements is better than none.

Sorry but I disagree with your very ignorant and broad brushed statements about our measurement protocol. We do follow a measurement protocol for loudspeakers and subwoofers and if you spent more time reading our tech articles you would have already known that.

Some of our measurements are done in room simply b/c its not always practical to measure loudspeakers outdoors. However, we often do summed nearfield responses or gated measurements to compensate. Above 300Hz, you can still get relatively accurate in-room measurements of loudspeakers, at least accurate enough to note any problematic response issues. Also impedance/phase measurements are independent of the room you measure them in.

If you don't agree with our measurement methods than that is your prerogative, but please refrain from posting misinformation about how we measure products until you spend more time reading our articles and actually examining our measurements and related commentary.

Here is a prime example of a VERY LARGE speaker with a complex driver array that I measured in-room.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/rbh-t-30lse/rbh-t-30lse-measurements-analysis

this type of speaker is not practical to measure outdoors and we don't have access to an anechoic chamber which would still require measurements outdoors to get any accuracy below 60Hz anyways.

I suggest spending some time reading our Loudspeaker/Subwoofer measurement articles here:
http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics

 

[DenPureSound]

I really couldn't comment on this without seeing the towers in person and investigating the surrounding surface that the tweeter and mids see with the grill attached. All I can say is that typical diffraction effects will occur at much lower frequencies than 20kHz. For tweeters, they're usually an issue in the 2k - 6k region. 20k is irrelevant. (And who could hear a diffraction effect at 20k even if it occurred?)

All I do know is that per Aperions Verus Grand Tower Design Goal writeup, that under their general section states:

"Low Diffraction" design, including grille, front baffle and driver mounting for optimal performance with grilles on!"

So, their Engineers had that stated as one of their design goals, so it was looked at, and implemented -- so it seems to me.

 

[Calvin Hobbes]

Sorry but I disagree with your very ignorant and broad brushed statements about our measurement protocol. We do follow a measurement protocol for loudspeakers and subwoofers and if you spent more time reading our tech articles you would have already known that.

Some of our measurements are done in room simply b/c its not always practical to measure loudspeakers outdoors. However, we often do summed nearfield responses or gated measurements to compensate. Above 300Hz, you can still get relatively accurate in-room measurements of loudspeakers, at least accurate enough to note any problematic response issues. Also impedance/phase measurements are independent of the room you measure them in.

If you don't agree with our measurement methods than that is your prerogative, but please refrain from posting misinformation about how we measure products until you spend more time reading our articles and actually examining our measurements and related commentary.

Here is a prime example of a VERY LARGE speaker with a complex driver array that I measured in-room.

RBH T-30LSE Measurements & Analysis — Reviews and News from Audioholics

this type of speaker is not practical to measure outdoors and we don't have access to an anechoic chamber which would still require measurements outdoors to get any accuracy below 60Hz anyways.

I suggest spending some time reading our Loudspeaker/Subwoofer measurement articles here:
Loudspeaker Basics — Reviews and News from Audioholics

I am quite familiar with your tech articles as i am also with all of Audioholics posted reviews on speakers.

AH states that it has a protocol, but each reviewer chooses to measure the speakers as he deems is the "best" method to measure said speaker. That choice of method introduces subjectivity. Some speakers are measured at 1/2 meter, 1 meter, or almost three meters. The mic location, room, and each reviewers tendencies as well as modifications to their testing protocol over time will introduce inconsistencies.

AH has even had the same speaker measured by two different reviewers. The results were such that it appeared that two different speakers were measured. The measuring of a speaker in a quasi-anechoic environment is open to the interpretation of the reviewer. Sometimes anomalies in those measurements are written off as artifacts without a solid reasoning behind the statement. It must be taken on faith.

Time gating measurements, is also determined by the reviewer based on his understanding of the room being used. If any of the parameters that the reviewer sets is slightly skewed it will influence the results. Also, frequency resolution is lost when time gating measurements. This would take a 1/12 resolution and start bringing towards the dreaded 1/3 octave resolution.

The use of summed near-field response should not be used at all. The technique is open to many flaws. As stated by Gene "More often than not, reviewers (myself included) tend to botch the summed low frequency response by being overly optimistic in the summation process between the bass drivers and the port(s)."

I disagree with Gene that I am providing misinformation. I am just making observations based on what is provided in the reviews.

The scientific method should be very systematic and should have repeatable results. It should be as objective as possible to reduce biased results.

 

[DenPureSound]

Duuuuude, that rocks - congrats! I expect a full write-up ASAP.

Nuance AH -- it is 27.7 deg. F outside air temp in the shade right now, so glad Aperion has a Velvet Bag around them.

Going to let them settle in to room temp. (72 deg. F) for some time ... before they get some Current running through them.

Then they are recommending about 40-50 hrs. of Break-In time.

Remember my baseline is DWD speakers in the late 70's, then Infinity RS-625/325, etc., then Yamaha HTIB, then Infinity Classias, then Klipsch Ref. '82ii Series, and now VGT's, and that is the Journey to my "Dream Speakers" so far...

 

[DenPureSound]

You sure do like this speaker. Good for you, though. Do you own them?

Yes, coming in today, and thanks to the Stock Market kicking up it's heels yesterday really helped!!

Only if they perform like I think they should, will they have found a new home, otherwise Fed-X does go both ways.

Writeup/review coming soon -- do you have a Great Review Template to work off of?

 

[cschang]

Only if they perform like I think they should, will they have found a new home, otherwise Fed-X does go both ways.

You don't plan to compare them to any other speaker on your list other than what you already have in your home?