Philharmonic Audio - 3-way open back ML-TQWTs designed by Dennis Murphy

[cpp]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post
If the price difference were $2K or more, I think there would be more interest in the PH2s.

For example, the Salon2s retail @ $22K, while the Studio2s retail @ $16K, a difference of $6,000!

But at only $800 difference, I think most people would say to themselves, "Why not just get the flagship model and never look back?"

but we all know, just because something cost more does not necessary mean it's better. I think the pricing of the PHil series is spot on. Your getting good speakers that measure nice without paying for major overheads. Know doubt companies like Harmon, KEF and others have a considerable amount of their markup is to support administrative and manufacturing overheads.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Looks like Grant you have a new job there, or is it just another one.

BTW, what are you studying there, EE or EL or Physics, just curious?

So, now the question is since I use my FL/FR always with the dual subs either in the Stereo Mode, and/or in the MultiChStereo mode off the 4311, but always either way w/ the two subs firing, should I really be looking at the Phil 2's instead of the 3's, and save the $1K?

95% of the time, it is on for Music with some nice .flac and the other 5% for an occasional movie (dts HD MA) or just HDTV via DirecTV's IRD.

Grant, looks like I will have to put you on my Payroll, also.

You know my initial plan was to get the PH2s because I already have dual Rythmik D15SE subs. And I'm sure once I get a much bigger house/room, Grant will talk me into getting 2 more Rythmik D15SE subs.

But Grant pointed out to me that the PH2s only come in satin black, which doesn't tickle my fancy unless they are high-gloss piano black.

So for my silly reasons, it was pure color/aesthetics on the PHs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So I am sure when ADTG gets his PH3's it will be a REAL Review of them, as he has the References there to compare to.

I'm not doing anything untill you get your own PH3s first!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If your going for some DREAM Speakers then it would have to be the 3's over the 2's.

PH3s over the PH2s?

Not if you don't care for red and are running dual Rythmik subs.

Ha, ha, ha.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Me thinks I have to raise the price of the Phil 3.

Of course, then the demand would decrease.

I believe it's easy to recommend them since they are < $3K, especially if they compete extremely well against Salon2s, Orions, and KEF Reference speakers.

But once the price goes up, I'm sure they will face more competition.

Some folks won't even look at smaller speaker companies like Salk, Seaton, Linkwitz, Geddes, Philharmonics, etc., just because they are not backed by "thousands of dollars" of "research" and reviews from Soundstage/NRC & Stereophile.

So, it's a tricky game.

I sure wish I could be a billionaire so I could just hire Grant to be in charge of research, testing, and making speakers. Then send these speakers everywhere like Soundstage/NRC, Stereophile, Home Theater Mag, Sound & Vision, Audioholics. Then sell them AT COST since I'm already a billionaire and couldn't care less about making any money. I'd be losing money and loving it.

Passion for the hobby. Passion.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

but we all know, just because something cost more does not necessary mean it's better. I think the pricing of the PHil series is spot on. Your getting good speakers that measure nice without paying for major overheads.

I agree completely.

 

[DenPureSound]

but we all know, just because something cost more does not necessary mean it's better. I think the pricing of the PHil series is spot on. Your getting good speakers that measure nice without paying for major overheads. Know doubt companies like Harmon, KEF and others have a considerable amount of their markup is to support administrative and manufacturing overheads.

DM's pricing is SPOT ON target.

He SHOULD NOT increase pricing until the Demand is so high that he can not sleep at night.

What do you think of this color finish?

 

[DenPureSound]

I'm not doing anything untill you get your own PH3s first!

Heck, it might take me a few more months to be able to afford the classy expensive Phil 3's, unlike you just pull out those BIG ONES there with great ease.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

DM's pricing is SPOT ON target.

He SHOULD NOT increase pricing until the Demand is so high that he can not sleep at night.

What do you think of this color finish?

Very beautiful looking. It's so difficult to pick just ONE veneer!!!

 

[DenPureSound]

Very beautiful looking. It's so difficult to pick just ONE veneer!!!

To me, colors are so subjective, but TEAK looks RICH and Eye Pleasing.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Heck, it might take me a few more months to be able to afford the classy expensive Phil 3's, unlike you just pull out those BIG ONES there with great ease.

Hopefully you can audition them first before buying your dream speakers.

But I'm sure you are anxious for me to compare them.

 

[ahblaza]

I would think after you get your B.S.M.E. you should either stay on the tech. side again and go for your M.S.E.E. or if you want Mgmt. go for your M.S.B.A. or Marketing/Sales where some bigger bucks are. Of course if you want to be a thief/cheat/lie'R then those law books will fit your bill, and give you the prerequisite for becoming another crook "Politician". I went the first route into M.E. then E.E. and it worked out here A.O.K.

Grant, what do you want me to buy for the $100 in measurement gear? The 4311 has Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 built in as you know, and dials in two subs nicely, but like ADTG I could always BUY something else. You recommend?

Grant, I am also curious about $100 to spend on measurement gear to dial in the subwoofers in placement wise.
Thanks Jeff

 

[GranteedEV]

Re: Measurement gear - 100 might have been a bit off but not a lot...

1 Calibrated Mic - Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement Microphone Allows For Accurate Acoustic Measurements At A Fraction Of The Price 390-801

OR if you don't mind spending more for absolute accuracy down to 5hz, get the fully professionally calibrated one:

Cross·Spectrum - Calibrated Dayton Audio EMM-6 Microphones for Sale

1 USB Sound card with phantom power - MOBILEPRE Preamp USB Computer interface M AUDIO "NEW" | eBay

1 Mic stand - JamStands JS-MCTB200 Tripod Mic Stand w/Telescoping Boom 242-743

1 XLR female to XLR male cable - Kimber Kable - Hero Interconnect with XLR'S-Audio Advisor

*runs away*

 

[Warpdrv]

LOL Kimber Cable pair 9.0 meter $1010.....

Or pretty sure you could go monoprice on that one, otherwise I have all the rest of those products for measurement gear...

 

[DenPureSound]

Re: Measurement gear - 100 might have been a bit off but not a lot...

1 Calibrated Mic - Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement Microphone Allows For Accurate Acoustic Measurements At A Fraction Of The Price 390-801

OR if you don't mind spending more for absolute accuracy down to 5hz, get the fully professionally calibrated one:

Cross·Spectrum - Calibrated Dayton Audio EMM-6 Microphones for Sale

1 USB Sound card with phantom power - MOBILEPRE Preamp USB Computer interface M AUDIO "NEW" | eBay

1 Mic stand - JamStands JS-MCTB200 Tripod Mic Stand w/Telescoping Boom 242-743

1 XLR female to XLR male cable - Kimber Kable - Hero Interconnect with XLR'S-Audio Advisor

*runs away*

Your close, but no cigar as your Scientific Notation Exponent is off by one for cost of system.

Oh, then I would need a laptop also as my old one still has WinME on it and I am not even sure it has USB ports haven't even looked at it for years and it probably has a Centronics Parallel and RS-232 Serial Intf... ah, this is getting to be way to much $, and time just for some measurements, LOL... would rather just let XT32 dial in the subs, and other spkrs.

When you have that all in your Dr.'s kit there Grant, swing on by and dial me in better.

 

[GranteedEV]

Oh, then I would need a laptop also as my old one still has WinME on it and I am not even sure it has USB ports haven't even looked at it for years

REW would work in ME, but i can't believe it has no USB ports!

Anyways the primary goal of physically seeing the measurements is to correct subwoofer (and main speaker) placement in the bass. the Denon subEQ should do a great job with subwoofer timing and taming / boosting anything major, but i think sub placement is best done by being able to see what's going on.

 

[mtrot]

New member here, and have really appreciated reading the info and experience of you guys with Philharmonic and Salk!

VERY interesting speaker option! I have been researching for some new speakers for quite some time, and have now discovered PH. I was interested in the SST, but it seems they have raised the price to the same as the PH 2. Years ago, a buddy and I very clumsily and not knowing what we were doing, rigged up a similar design with a large bottom box and a smaller box on top. Don't know how or why it worked out, but I was amazed at the sound it produced!

My only hesitation with planar mid design is that I don't know what kind of dynamics and impact is obtained with the planar mid vs a cone type mid woofer. I have eclectic listening tastes as well as home theater, and need an all around best compromise design.

 

[DenPureSound]

New member here, and have really appreciated reading the info and experience of you guys with Philharmonic and Salk!

VERY interesting speaker option! I have been researching for some new speakers for quite some time, and have now discovered PH. I was interested in the SST, but it seems they have raised the price to the same as the PH 2. Years ago, a buddy and I very clumsily and not knowing what we were doing, rigged up a similar design with a large bottom box and a smaller box on top. Don't know how or why it worked out, but I was amazed at the sound it produced!

My only hesitation with planar mid design is that I don't know what kind of dynamics and impact is obtained with the planar mid vs a cone type mid woofer. I have eclectic listening tastes as well as home theater, and need an all around best compromise design.

I was thinking and talking to ADTG just about this issue earlier today w/ the planar vs. a cone for mid-range. Dennis Murphy surely can explain to us all how that works, and fits into his Xover and enclosure design.

I noticed the Neo8 has a 12 kHz. peak which surely Dennis is aware of and looks like he was able to tame that down to less than 2db. per his FR plot.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I was thinking and talking to ADTG just about this issue earlier today w/ the planar vs. a cone for mid-range. Dennis Murphy surely can explain to us all how that works, and fits into his Xover and enclosure design.

I noticed the Neo8 has a 12 kHz. peak which surely Dennis is aware of and looks like he was able to tame that down to less than 2db. per his FR plot.

HI Any peak at 12 kHz is in the tweeter response, not the planar. The Neo8 is crossed to the tweet at a hair under 3 khz, 24 dB/octave. So the peak has gone bye-bye by 12 kHz. Plus, the peak is really only significant on-axis. The listening axis is above the midrange axis on the Phil. On the low end, the Neo is crossed to the woofer at 650 Hz. That means the planar is operating over a fairly narrow, and for it, comfortable zone. It really doesn't limit the Philharmonics' dynamic range.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

HI Any peak at 12 kHz is in the tweeter response, not the planar. The Neo8 is crossed to the tweet at a hair under 3 khz, 24 dB/octave. So the peak has gone bye-bye by 12 kHz. Plus, the peak is really only significant on-axis. The listening axis is above the midrange axis on the Phil. On the low end, the Neo is crossed to the woofer at 650 Hz. That means the planar is operating over a fairly narrow, and for it, comfortable zone. It really doesn't limit the Philharmonics' dynamic range.

Dennis, what is the primary advantage of using Ribbon tweeters vs. cone tweeters and Planar midrange vs. cone midrange?

Is it basically bigger soundstage?