Philharmonic Audio - 3-way open back ML-TQWTs designed by Dennis Murphy

[DenPureSound]

Philharmonic PH3's Enclosure Fill

I took the filling out when I snapped the pic, because I thought that would show more about the design. The speakers are supplied with fill--you use as much as you want, or none. It will all depend on the room, program material, and individual taste.

Knowing the upper enclosure will have fill in it, does that mean that the lower bottom enclosure also has fill in it along the full length (66") of the ML-TL?

I am assuming the lower enclosure is purely a ML-TL, and not a ML-TQWT, right?

Thanks, DM.

 

[mtrot]

Is the philharmonic web site down? Can't get it to come up now.

 

[Swerd]

Knowing the upper enclosure will have fill in it, does that mean that the lower bottom enclosure also has fill in it along the full length (66") of the ML-TL?

I am assuming the lower enclosure is purely a ML-TL, and not a ML-TQWT, right?

Thanks, DM.

The fill in the bass cabinet is independent of the midrange cabinet.

Your questions about the design of the bass cabinet are answered here.

 

[DenPureSound]

Is the philharmonic web site down? Can't get it to come up now.

Seems to be working here in Washington State.

 

[DenPureSound]

The fill in the bass cabinet is independent of the midrange cabinet.

Your questions about the design of the bass cabinet are answered here.

So, to me it looks as though both upper and lower enclosures are stuffed, and for the Bottom Woofer enclosure Fiber stuffing is still needed, but it’s no longer necessary to stuff the whole line, typically just the first 40-60% of the line, in order to adequately minimize response ripples.

Sound correct?

 

[DenPureSound]

The fill in the bass cabinet is independent of the midrange cabinet.

Your questions about the design of the bass cabinet are answered here.

How do you like those NHT Super Zero's .. have you heard the Absolute Zero's?

 

[Swerd]

So, to me it looks as though both upper and lower enclosures are stuffed, and for the Bottom Woofer enclosure Fiber stuffing is still needed, but it’s no longer necessary to stuff the whole line, typically just the first 40-60% of the line, in order to adequately minimize response ripples.

Yes they are both stuffed, but the role of the fill in the midrange/tweeter cabinet is different than in the bass. The bass cabinet filling is built-in and cannot be adjusted, nor does it need it.

But you can open the back of the midrange/tweeter cabinet and remove or add fill behind the midrange. It adjusts the balance between the front and back waves. So in addition to being able to move the speaker away from or closer to the wall behind it, you can add or subtract the fill behind the midrange. It can make quite a difference in "soundstage" depth.

The only other speakers I know of that have this feature are the Salk SoundScapes, and the Holtz Statements (a DIY design).

I got those NHTs 11 years ago. They're fine for movie rear channel sound. I've never heard any of the more recent NHT models.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

How do you like those NHT Super Zero's .. have you heard the Absolute Zero's?

I'm getting a pair of super zero's fitted for the Hiquphon 0W1 tweeter in a day two. It shouldn't be very difficult to adapt the crossover. That might actually turn out to be super. Of course, nothing can be done to improve the bass response or low sensitivity.

 

[zieglj01]

I'm getting a pair of super zero's fitted for the Hiquphon 0W1 tweeter in a day two. It shouldn't be very difficult to adapt the crossover. That might actually turn out to be super. Of course, nothing can be done to improve the bass response or low sensitivity.

That sounds interesting - would really like to hear about the results.

 

[DenPureSound]

PH3 Driver Gaskets?

Do all the drivers (3) have gaskets between them and their respective enclosure, or all they just hard mounted?

What do the gaskets, if used, perform to do? Do they basically act as a vibration isolator to the enclosure, or ?

 

[DenPureSound]

Yes they are both stuffed, but the role of the fill in the midrange/tweeter cabinet is different than in the bass. The bass cabinet filling is built-in and cannot be adjusted, nor does it need it.

But you can open the back of the midrange/tweeter cabinet and remove or add fill behind the midrange. It adjusts the balance between the front and back waves. So in addition to being able to move the speaker away from or closer to the wall behind it, you can add or subtract the fill behind the midrange. It can make quite a difference in "soundstage" depth.

The only other speakers I know of that have this feature are the Salk SoundScapes, and the Holtz Statements (a DIY design).

I got those NHTs 11 years ago. They're fine for movie rear channel sound. I've never heard any of the more recent NHT models.

Regarding the acoustic fill in the bottom enclosure is the Whole Length of the 66" ML-TL filled or just the first 40-60% of the line closer to the driver?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

But you can open the back of the midrange/tweeter cabinet and remove or add fill behind the midrange. It adjusts the balance between the front and back waves. So in addition to being able to move the speaker away from or closer to the wall behind it, you can add or subtract the fill behind the midrange. It can make quite a difference in "soundstage" depth.

So Adding more fill inside the midrange/tweeter cabinet allows you to place the speaker closer to the wall?

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Do all the drivers (3) have gaskets between them and their respective enclosure, or all they just hard mounted?

What do the gaskets, if used, perform to do? Do they basically act as a vibration isolator to the enclosure, or ?

It's standard practice to isolate the driver flange from the cabinet with a gasket material of some kind. In this case, all of the drivers come with their own gaskets. That will reduce vibrations transmitted to the cabinet, but it will certainly not eliminate them.

 

[ski2xblack]

So Adding more fill inside the midrange/tweeter cabinet allows you to place the speaker closer to the wall?

It is still dipolar-ish, so I would imagine the time delay for the rear wave rules still apply, but if you reduce the output level relative to the front with the batting so the reflected rearward sound is not as prominent, it may give more wiggle room regarding placement closer to the wall. This is a guess. Am I off, Dennis?

Oh, and kudos to Mr. Murphy for bringing out his Philharmonics, they seem to be a grand slam when it comes to value and performance. I like the cut of your jib, sir, please keep up the good work!

 

[Dennis Murphy]

So Adding more fill inside the midrange/tweeter cabinet allows you to place the speaker closer to the wall?

I think that would help, although it's easy enouph to experiment. The fill in the bottom cabinet is just in the frist two segments of the transmission line. The final segment with the exit on top is empty.

And now for something completely different. I just got the bill for the custom packing material I had to order for the 3's. $576 for 5 pairs. That, plus the increase in prices for neo magnets (used in the tweeter and midrange) are forcing me to up the 3's price. It will be an even $3000 a pair for any orders I haven't received. I'll hold the line on the 1's and 2's, in part because the cabinets come with their own boxes and cushions supplied.

 

[DenPureSound]

I think that would help, although it's easy enouph to experiment. The fill in the bottom cabinet is just in the frist two segments of the transmission line. The final segment with the exit on top is empty.

And now for something completely different. I just got the bill for the custom packing material I had to order for the 3's. $576 for 5 pairs. That, plus the increase in prices for neo magnets (used in the tweeter and midrange) are forcing me to up the 3's price. It will be an even $3000 a pair for any orders I haven't received. I'll hold the line on the 1's and 2's, in part because the cabinets come with their own boxes and cushions supplied.

Heck, I want to "Hear them First" before this stuff !!

Is that the packing material that goes into shipping them in a cardboard box, that we have to pay for and then pay again when we want to dispose of the shipping materials, or the speaker internal material?

How much did the Neo8 and the Tweeter go up in price?

What is going on (?), last time I looked we were in a Great Recession in the U.S.A. (w/ Demonstrators all over the World), and the Market looks like it to me and many others, these greedy other Mfg's. are causing our Inflation and with all of that the Major Corps. have a Trillion $ in the banks! - and I wonder why so many are protesting -- good for them, maybe someday the "Very Rich" will get the Point - not you DM -- the others.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Heck, I want to "Hear them First" before this stuff !!

Is that the packing material that goes into shipping them in a cardboard box, that we have to pay for and then pay again when we want to dispose of the shipping materials, or the speaker internal material?

How much did the Neo8 and the Tweeter go up in price?

What is going on (?), last time I looked we were in a Great Recession in the U.S.A. (w/ Demonstrators all over the World), and the Market looks like it to me and many others, these greedy other Mfg's. are causing our Inflation and with all of that the Major Corps. have a Trillion $ in the banks! - and I wonder why so many are protesting -- good for them, maybe someday the "Very Rich" will get the Point - not you DM -- the others.

The neo magnet price increase has nothing to do with our recession--it's due to an artificial shortage the Chinese have engineered. They supply almost all of the neo's. The Neo8 price has only gone up a little over $10 a piece. My price for the RAAL has gone up about $90 since I introduced the Phil 3's. The list is now $389 a unit (Madisound Speaker Store). I don't pay quite that much, and I was able to order ahead before the latest increase, but my increase was still $100 a pair, and will be almost $200 more for the next order. The packing boxes aren't very expensive, but the custom foam cushions for the top and bottom are. When I started out, I just figured I would throw some styro bocks in at either end for protection, but that won't protect the corners when Fed Ex plays Drop-The-
Box-Off-The-Truck, which they do so well.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The neo magnet price increase has nothing to do with our recession--it's due to an artificial shortage the Chinese have engineered. They supply almost all of the neo's. The Neo8 price has only gone up a little over $10 a piece. My price for the RAAL has gone up about $90 since I introduced the Phil 3's. The list is now $389 a unit (Madisound Speaker Store). I don't pay quite that much, and I was able to order ahead before the latest increase, but my increase was still $100 a pair, and will be almost $200 more for the next order. The packing boxes aren't very expensive, but the custom foam cushions for the top and bottom are. When I started out, I just figured I would throw some styro bocks in at either end for protection, but that won't protect the corners when Fed Ex plays Drop-The-
Box-Off-The-Truck, which they do so well.

Most of us know shipping speakers and electronics is pretty scary.

A few months ago when I sold my DefTech BP7000s & BP7001s, both buyers thanked me for packing extremely well because UPS banged up all the boxes severely. It was the extra packing inside that saved the speakers; not a single scratch to the speakers even though the boxes were tossed like rag dolls.

 

[DenPureSound]

The neo magnet price increase has nothing to do with our recession--it's due to an artificial shortage the Chinese have engineered. They supply almost all of the neo's. The Neo8 price has only gone up a little over $10 a piece. My price for the RAAL has gone up about $90 since I introduced the Phil 3's. The list is now $389 a unit (Madisound Speaker Store). I don't pay quite that much, and I was able to order ahead before the latest increase, but my increase was still $100 a pair, and will be almost $200 more for the next order. The packing boxes aren't very expensive, but the custom foam cushions for the top and bottom are. When I started out, I just figured I would throw some styro bocks in at either end for protection, but that won't protect the corners when Fed Ex plays Drop-The-
Box-Off-The-Truck, which they do so well.

The Chinese are at it again w/ their artificial shortage to drive up the cost of the Neo8, and that is why our Congress is addressing their currency manipulation on top of it!

I know the RAAL Ribbon Tweeter from Serbia is like a Diamond product - premium products are going to cost.

Yes, the product has to be VERY well packaged when shipping due to the "DROP IT OFF EFFECT" -- the Shippers hate heavy boxes, and can be brutal to them!!

 

[woodsart]

One thing we can all count on with DM is his honesty, sincere desire to give us the truth with a little humor, conforming to facts and therefore worthy of belief and trust. Not that there is any doubt in this forum, though. (He will probably question some of this).

And, speaking of shipping, I took a 24 lb package to UPS and they said 75.00, I about croaked, so I marched myself to the USPS and it was 30.00. The box hasn't arrived yet? ):

Speaking of the Philharmonics.....Dennis is not too far from me so I will looking forward to driving up and pick up my Philly IIs, and I am hoping very, very soon, He He!!

Very anxious to hear the RAAL in my setting. Both the Fountek and the RAAL were winners in my ears at the CAF. I have certainly enjoyed the CAOW1 bookshelves he built for me, they are true winners as well.

Rob