Have mercy on me, a newb with the same damn questions...

[allforthename]

I'm sorry ahead of time - I've really done my best to research and read and translate the Greek that many of these forum posts seem to be written in. But I'm falling short and would greatly appreciate any help those of you with the valuable knowledge that I seek. Though I'm sure so many people have asked similar questions...

Here's the nutshell: I really want to compose the best home theater audio system I can by Craigstlist/Flea Market/Goodwilling it for around $1000 all said and done. I love vintage/older stuff - generally prefer it for charm sake - but I literally have no idea where to start (except that I keep reading that AR-3a's are incredible and I cannot afford them)

Further details:

Just moved to a new large apartment on the ground floor (so I don't have to worry about being too loud). Transitioning from a TV to a projector (so the screen will be big, and the sound should follow suit). I have a Technics TT that I fished out of a trash bin and fixed up (which I LOVE). But up until now, I've been using it with the Sony pre-fab box set "surround sound system" i got from Best Buy out of college.

This is what I THINK I want...

1.) An amp - I don't think I need a receiver because radio isn't important to me.
2.) Two loudspeakers - I was thinking something like these advent herritage or AR 4x's? But I really don't know much about either of these. I've just seen them on other posts and found them locally on CL. http: //losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/2539871935.html
http: //losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/2539896305.html
3.) A subwoofer.

Surround sound isn't that important to me, plus the room layout doesn't really allow for it without cords being everywhere.

I want to play TV/movies through this system as well as my vinyl and CD's.

Other than that, I'm kind of stuck. The sheer volume and quantity of product is totally overwhelming. Like these B&W Towers - http: //losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/ele/2528003171.html - which I think are beautiful... but is that a good price? And those are newer whereas the AR's are old, right? YEESH. HELP!!

Thanks in advance!

 

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum!

I don't have any specific advice on used gear, but others here are very knowledgeable about that. I just want to comment about an amp versus a receiver. Not to get into semantics, but it might be important for you as you go shopping. An "amplifier" typically does just that - amplifies a signal. What is doesn't do is allow you to switch between different input sources (TV, blu-ray, DVD) or adjust the volume, and it has no internal processing for surround sound (which might be important, based on some following questions). An "integrated amplifier" still doesn't do any audio processing, but it does let you switch between different input sources and adjust the volume. A receiver does all of that and adds in audio (and sometimes video) processing, as well as a radio tuner.

What sources do you plan on listening to? Do you have a DVD or blu-ray player? Satellite TV? There's some things to make sure are compatible between your sources and your amp/receiver:
1. Make sure that the amp/receiver can accept the available connections for the sources. For example, you might find that you need a digital audio connection to support one of your sources. Probably not, as most will have at least stereo analog outputs, but I want to mention it just in case.
2. Related to the above, if your sources don't have stereo analog outputs, then you'll want the amp/receiver (or something else) to be able to convert surround sound audio into stereo audio if you only get two speakers.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

You'd still want a receiver, a stereo one and if you are looking for record player, you need one with phono stage in it.
AR4 were ok, but I think you could do much better in same budget, here are few good options i found in your area:
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/2539001821.html
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/2534589301.html
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/2536821651.html
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/2539897809.html

and thou this receiver comes with speakers, which might be ok or not, the receiver itself is good deal
for this price and already has phono stage..
I couldn't find exact specs but my gut feeling tells it has over 100wpc hones watts...

 

[bikemig]

You can also save money by looking at refurbished gear; accessories4less has some really good prices on stereo receivers, integrated amps, speakers, etc. I've been spending some time on their website and I'm starting to get tempted . . . .

 

[Beatmatcher247]

Do be careful with craigslist. Don't get robbed or worse and don't buy paperweights.

Couple rules to live by with craigslist.
Meet in a busy public place and if something doesn't seem right about the seller, than it probably isn't. Also, never buy anything without actually auditioning it. If they aren't willing to demo it, its not worth the crap shoot.

 

[zhimbo]

Just moved to a new large apartment on the ground floor (so I don't have to worry about being too loud).

You do have neighbors, I assume, to the side and/or above you. So yes, you do have to worry about being too loud. Some of the bass travels via direct contact, but PLENTY of bass can travel through side walls or ceilings too (ask me how I know).

 

[allforthename]

Welcome to the forum!

I don't have any specific advice on used gear, but others here are very knowledgeable about that. I just want to comment about an amp versus a receiver. Not to get into semantics, but it might be important for you as you go shopping. An "amplifier" typically does just that - amplifies a signal. What is doesn't do is allow you to switch between different input sources (TV, blu-ray, DVD) or adjust the volume, and it has no internal processing for surround sound (which might be important, based on some following questions). An "integrated amplifier" still doesn't do any audio processing, but it does let you switch between different input sources and adjust the volume. A receiver does all of that and adds in audio (and sometimes video) processing, as well as a radio tuner.

What sources do you plan on listening to? Do you have a DVD or blu-ray player? Satellite TV? There's some things to make sure are compatible between your sources and your amp/receiver:
1. Make sure that the amp/receiver can accept the available connections for the sources. For example, you might find that you need a digital audio connection to support one of your sources. Probably not, as most will have at least stereo analog outputs, but I want to mention it just in case.
2. Related to the above, if your sources don't have stereo analog outputs, then you'll want the amp/receiver (or something else) to be able to convert surround sound audio into stereo audio if you only get two speakers.

Adam - THANK YOU! Huge help. Probably just saved me from buying the wrong thing.

Ok, sounds like I definitely need a receiver (with Phono inputs, thanks BSA). I'm going to want to be able to put a DVD player, Xbox, and Cable box through it. Plus the Phono - so I guess that means I need something with 4 "stages"? "Inputs"? And when it comes to looking, I'm getting nervous about all these power requirements I read (on the speaker side). So should I decide on speakers first and then, based off what they need power wise, look for a receiver?

BSA - thanks for those CL finds! Though.. from a design standpoint, I'm really wanting something either more vintage or more modern. Sorry to get picky. I love either the look of those vintage ARs or very modern B&Ws I posted above - but I want to avoid the more straight-black casing/covers because it won't really fit with the room. Looks like you were searching for DCM? So that's a good brand to look for? And KEF?

Thanks BeatMatcher and Zhimbo - noted!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Adam - THANK YOU! Huge help. Probably just saved me from buying the wrong thing.

Ok, sounds like I definitely need a receiver (with Phono inputs, thanks BSA). I'm going to want to be able to put a DVD player, Xbox, and Cable box through it. Plus the Phono - so I guess that means I need something with 4 "stages"? "Inputs"? And when it comes to looking, I'm getting nervous about all these power requirements I read (on the speaker side). So should I decide on speakers first and then, based off what they need power wise, look for a receiver?

BSA - thanks for those CL finds! Though.. from a design standpoint, I'm really wanting something either more vintage or more modern. Sorry to get picky. I love either the look of those vintage ARs or very modern B&Ws I posted above - but I want to avoid the more straight-black casing/covers because it won't really fit with the room. Looks like you were searching for DCM? So that's a good brand to look for? And KEF?

Thanks BeatMatcher and Zhimbo - noted!

DCM Brand is pretty vintage - about 70's-80.. I never heard them but they generated a lot of positive reactions and happy owners... You should do a bit more research on them and talk to owners.

KEF Is still producing great speakers, I'm not familiar with this specific model, but i'd be interested

Lets not forget Linn - Legendary UK Hi End audio producer.

As correctly noted above - You should be very careful with Craigslist - You must request to give speakers/electronics a careful listen or walk away..

 

[bikdav]

DCM Brand is pretty vintage - about 70's-80.. I never heard them but they generated a lot of positive reactions and happy owners... You should do a bit more research on them and talk to owners.

KEF Is still producing great speakers, I'm not familiar with this specific model, but i'd be interested

Lets not forget Linn - Legendary UK Hi End audio producer.

As correctly noted above - You should be very careful with Craigslist - You must request to give speakers/electronics a careful listen or walk away..

I've heard those DCMs on several occasions during my college days. The problem with them _ the way I remember them _ was that their bass was rather anemic given their size. But, they had very good imaging and general sonic accuracy.

 

[markw]

If you're going for a stereo only system with just two speakers, then vintage speakers can be a great way to go. You only need to match two. You can ignore the rest of this post.

For HT, you need at least the front three to match. It's nice if the rears do as well but not nearly important. Finding enough vintage speakers in good shape may be a challenge.

The AR-4's and Advents are nice but you might do a bit better with more modern speakers.

DCM KX series are yer basic big box speakers and can be loud but a bit harsh. They were designed to compete with the frat rock sound of Cerwin-Vega!, which is the standard bearer in that area.

Now, if you can find some matching CX series, CX-21 bookshelves, CX-31 towers and the matching center, you'll have a great HT speaker system for cheap. Buy, when scouring for vintage, going for specifics can be daunting.

You might want to consider modern, matching speakers for a HT system. It'll be a heckuva lot easier to get a timbre matched set.

 

[GranteedEV]

This is what I THINK I want...

1.) An amp - I don't think I need a receiver because radio isn't important to me.

You still need some kind of volume control. Receivers are just a good general value. Otherwise you need an integrated amp. Not a separate amp, which will lack volume control.

2.) Two loudspeakers - I was thinking something like these advent herritage or AR 4x's? But I really don't know much about either of these. I've just seen them on other posts and found them locally on CL. http: //losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/2539871935.html
http: //losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/2539896305.html

While vintage speakers can sound fine, I do think, unlike solid state electronics, research on psychoacoustics, drivers, and thus speaker design has notably advanced over the decades. I would consider more modern speakers. Perhaps audition the Infinity Classia C336 which retailed for around 1800 but you can now get brand new for around $600

3.) A subwoofer.

To integrate a sub you will need a receiver with a subwoofer output. A stereo receiver will not likely have one. I recommend a surround receiver, whether you want to use the extra features or not. I don't think your budget will afford you a sub to be honest with you.

This is a unit which measured very well
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR6004/Marantz-SR6004-110w-X-7ch-Home-Theater-Surround-Receiver/1.html

 

[zieglj01]

Harman Kardon stereo receiver, with phono input and subwoofer output
A killer price - 120 watts per channel
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882121064&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Receivers-_-HARMAN+KARDON-_-82121064

 

[GranteedEV]

It has a sub output, but does it have any bass management?

 

[zieglj01]

It has a sub output, but does it have any bass management?

No - however, a nice option for one on a tight budget. His choice.
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/hk-3490

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

If you're going for a stereo only system with just two speakers, then vintage speakers can be a great way to go. You only need to match two. You can ignore the rest of this post.

For HT, you need at least the front three to match. It's nice if the rears do as well but not nearly important. Finding enough vintage speakers in good shape may be a challenge.

The AR-4's and Advents are nice but you might do a bit better with more modern speakers.

DCM KX series are yer basic big box speakers and can be loud but a bit harsh. They were designed to compete with the frat rock sound of Cerwin-Vega!, which is the standard bearer in that area.

Now, if you can find some matching CX series, CX-21 bookshelves, CX-31 towers and the matching center, you'll have a great HT speaker system for cheap. Buy, when scouring for vintage, going for specifics can be daunting.

You might want to consider modern, matching speakers for a HT system. It'll be a heckuva lot easier to get a timbre matched set.

What do you think of my other educated guesses selection?
KEF and LINN speakers?

 

[zieglj01]

Monitor Audio
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1317589768&/Monitor-Audio-Silver-8-Floorst

Vintage McIntosh
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1317602149&/McIntosh-XD-715-McIntosh-XD715

 

[markw]

What do you think of my other educated guesses selection?
KEF and LINN speakers?

I'm not familiar with Linn and I did get mu stepeon a KEF ensemble with five eggs and a small sub from Acc4less a few years ago. He likes it fine, or at least his wife does. for him but I'm not a fan of the tiny speaker/big sub school of thought. Somehow, I haven't found anything with less than a 6 1/2" driver satisfactory for overall listening pleasure.

I'm also surprised to find out that it's impossible to successfully blend in a subwoofer withot bass mamagement in a stereo system. I guess someone should tell that to the maggies and velo sub in my stereo system. (see sig line). It sure fooled me, and a heckuva lot of others as well.

The sub is now in my HT system but it sure sounded great in the "music" system on the rare occasions it as called upon.

 

[allforthename]

If you're going for a stereo only system with just two speakers, then vintage speakers can be a great way to go. You only need to match two. You can ignore the rest of this post.

For HT, you need at least the front three to match. It's nice if the rears do as well but not nearly important. Finding enough vintage speakers in good shape may be a challenge.

The AR-4's and Advents are nice but you might do a bit better with more modern speakers.

DCM KX series are yer basic big box speakers and can be loud but a bit harsh. They were designed to compete with the frat rock sound of Cerwin-Vega!, which is the standard bearer in that area.

Now, if you can find some matching CX series, CX-21 bookshelves, CX-31 towers and the matching center, you'll have a great HT speaker system for cheap. Buy, when scouring for vintage, going for specifics can be daunting.

You might want to consider modern, matching speakers for a HT system. It'll be a heckuva lot easier to get a timbre matched set.

Thanks a ton for this Mark. Really helpful for me to be able to search for these specific speakers - I'll keep them on my CL search rotation. When you said that might be better/easier to just get a more modern matching speaker system for HT - would you mind spouting off a few makes/models that I should look for? Basically all I've resorted to is looking at places like local shop aheadstereo.com and searching for the brands they sell. But That's why I end up looking at B&W speakers for $750 and really having no idea if that's the direction I should head. Or if there are some great, "modern" speakers I could get for more in my price range.

Any names and/or models you could just toss out would be super-helpful. Thanks!!!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

$1,000 for 2 speakers + Receiver.

I say get 2 brand new JBL ES90 for $550/pr shipped:

http://www.amazon.com/JBL-ES90BK-8-Inch-Floorstanding-Speaker/dp/B00166VDK8/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1313244804&sr=1-6

http://www.jr.com/jbl/pe/JBL_ES90BK/

Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohms

Sensitivity (2.83V/1m): 91dB

Frequency response (±3dB): 36Hz - 40kHz

crossover Frequencies: 500Hz - 24dB/Octave, 3000Hz - 24dB/Octave, 12,000Hz - 18dB/Octave, Straight-Line Signal Path (SSP)

Ultrahigh-Frequency Driver: 3/4" (19mm) Polyester-film ring radiator mounted in JBL EOS waveguide, shielded

High-Frequency Transducer: 3/4" (19mm) Titanium-laminate dome in EOS waveguide, shielded

Midrange Transducer: 4" PolyPlas, shielded

Low-Frequency Transducer: Dual 8" (200mm) PolyPlas, shielded

Terminals: Gold-plated, 5-way binding posts

Dimensions (H x W x D): 42-11/16" x 10-1/4" x 15-1/8"

Weight per Speaker: 53.4 lb (24.2kg)


Denon AVR-3310 for $628 shipped from California (used, but LIKE-NEW):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B002AKKFQ2/sr=8-1/qid=1313245930/ref=olp_tab_used?ie=UTF8&coliid=&me=&qid=1313245930&sr=8-1&seller=&colid=&condition=used

Processing decoding: Dolby ProLogic IIz, TrueHD, Surround EX, ProLogic IIx / dts-HD Master Audio, ES Discrete 6.1, ES Matrix 6.1, Neo:6, 96/24 / MP3, WMA
Output power: 120W x 7 channels / All channels rated @ 0.05 THD
Best video connections: 5 HDMI v1.3a inputs with 7.1-channel uncompressed 24/96 audio, 1 output
Best audio connections: 3 digital coaxial inputs / 3 digital optical inputs, 1 output
Multi-channel audio in: 7.1-channel analog input
Other connections: 3 component-video in, 1 out (monitor) / 7 S-video in, 3 out (1 monitor) / 7 composite-video in, 2 out (1 monitor) / 1 ethernet / 1 USB
DSP modes: 7
Surround modes: Mono Movie / Rock Arena / Matrix / Virtual Surround / Auto / Active Center Channel / Dynamic Discrete
Plug and play: HD Radio compatible (built-in tuner) / Rhapsody compatible / SIRIUS Satellite Radio ready
Remote control: 2 remote controls included / 1 Y/RC-1118, 1 RC-1121


Total shipped: $1,178

 

[allforthename]

$1,000 for 2 speakers + Receiver.

I say get 2 brand new JBL ES90 for $550/pr shipped:

Denon AVR-3310 for $628 shipped from California (used, but LIKE-NEW):


Total shipped: $1,178

Ahhhh - Ok, so now I'm seeing why the receiver is so important. And now, if I understand correctly, I can see why THIS kind of receiver would be so ideal for my situation. Since I'm mounting a projector to the ceiling, the last thing I want is tons of cables running to and from the thing. So if I can plug EVERYTHING into this receiver, and just run one HDMI cable up to the projector... well obviously. Thanks ADTG!! I think these speakers are a little more serious and costly than I want. But I can see why this receiver would make sense. Awesome!