Dayton RSS315HF-4 or 390HF-4?

[GO-NAD!]

After finishing my projector project, I decided to do some subwoofer testing. I added my Reel Acoustics RSW1215 to the DPS-12 and placed them on the front wall at 1/4 distance from the sidewalls to hopefully even out the FR. I hadn't done any testing of my HT subwoofers before so I had no real expectations. Well, the placement appears to be good and there don't seem to be any phase issues with the different subs, because the FR was almost flat, from 80 Hz, down to 40 Hz. However, the response drops like a rock below 40: -10 dB at 31.5 Hz and -18 at 25 Hz! I knew I wasn't going to be impressed, but that's depressing!

It just confirmed that I need/want to build a pair of HT subs. Since I had great results with the RSS265HF for my 2-channel rig, I figured I'd stick with that series and go either 12" or 15". I like the thought of going with the 15", but it needs a gargantuan enclosure! There is just a 22" space available between my false wall and the front wall, but plenty of room to the sides.

I probably won't start this until late summer or fall, as I have enough on my plate right now. But, I find that it's good to plan ahead.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

 

[jostenmeat]

I would list the exact* limitations for every dimension, including height, width, and length. For instance, my (huge and heavy) TH is only 16" deep . . . but 5' wide. Unfortunately, my type of sub is a lot more complex to build than the other typical builds. I could only pull mine off since it was a pre CNC'd kit, otherwise no way I'd even try. You, I have much more faith in however.

How much does your response change when you move the subwoofers a bit? How much does it change when you change your seating a bit?

Perhaps don't go too crazy until you get bass trapping in there (as that was the plan right)?

 

[GO-NAD!]

I would list the exact* limitations for every dimension, including height, width, and length. For instance, my (huge and heavy) TH is only 16" deep . . . but 5' wide. Unfortunately, my type of sub is a lot more complex to build than the other typical builds. I could only pull mine off since it was a pre CNC'd kit, otherwise no way I'd even try. You, I have much more faith in however.

How much does your response change when you move the subwoofers a bit? How much does it change when you change your seating a bit?

Perhaps don't go too crazy until you get bass trapping in there (as that was the plan right)?

I certainly don't have 5' to play with! But, I have about 30" laterally to play with - on each side. And, the ceiling is 7'. I haven't really tried moving them towards the corners yet. I don't have any real expectations of a dramatic improvement if I did. I do intend to incorporate some bass-trapping, of course, but that won't offer me deeper extension either. I haven't moved the seating, and if I did, I'm pretty sure any possible improvement will be marginal.

I might be able to squeeze a bit more performance from these subs, with some tweaking and experimentation, but I know I will need better ones, if I want to get usable 20 Hz performance.

 

[jostenmeat]

Please page annunaki, I want to see what he offers with your limitations of 22" x 30" x 84". Page TLS for that matter too.

 

[GranteedEV]

Sealed? TL? Ported? Horn?

 

[GO-NAD!]

Please page annunaki, I want to see what he offers with your limitations of 22" x 30" x 84". Page TLS for that matter too.

Yeah, I don't really have much height restriction. They would be placed behind the screen/false wall, so they shouldn't violate WAF.

I think I'm talking myself into going with the 390.

Annunaki's help was instrumental in the design of my in-ceiling subs.

 

[Matt34]

I would look at something with more excursion to get 20hz output in a smaller enclosure. The Tempest X 15" have almost twice the excursion of the Dayton HF.

http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?products_id=652

 

[GO-NAD!]

Sealed? TL? Ported? Horn?

I plan on ported.

 

[GranteedEV]

I plan on ported.

Then ya gotta go with sonotube LLT 15s or even 18s. Look for something with fs around 18 and tune it around 15hz

 

[GO-NAD!]

I would look at something with more excursion to get 20hz output in a smaller enclosure. The Tempest X 15" have almost twice the excursion of the Dayton HF.

http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?products_id=652

Well, that's a bit more expensive than I was planning on - especially since I was thinking of building two. I won't rule it out though.

I like the Daytons, because they offer tremendous bang for the buck. Their only major drawback, that Ican see, is that they require fairly large enclosures. Since I plan on placing it/them behind the false wall, the size won't be such a factor.

I'll think about that Tempest though....

 

[GranteedEV]

Well, that's a bit more expensive than I was planning on - especially since I was thinking of building two. I won't rule it out though.

I like the Daytons, because they offer tremendous bang for the buck. Their only major drawback, that Ican see, is that they require fairly large enclosures. Since I plan on placing it/them behind the false wall, the size won't be such a factor.

I'll think about that Tempest though....

two dayton 15s in some sonotubes should work pretty nicely. tune them at about 15hz imo, and feed them about 200w each.

 

[jinjuku]

I plan on ported.

With that much space (40 cubic foot) you could certainly just go sealed. You could easily accommodate 4 sealed enclosures and simply purchase enough amplification when you want to add additional drivers. So just start with two and pre-wire for an additional 2 or 3.

An Infinity 120.9w in a 5 ft sealed enclosure with 100% poly-fil should dig plenty deep. Can you post pics of the room with emphasis on the spot they will go in?

 

[GO-NAD!]

Then ya gotta go with sonotube LLT 15s or even 18s. Look for something with fs around 18 and tune it around 15hz

I had to google "LLT". I read up on the concept in a post at HTS. It looks like it may be the way to go. I've seen pics of sonotube subs, but I'd have to do a lot of reading up on it, before attempting. I would imagine that a conventional enclosure would work as well?

 

[GO-NAD!]

With that much space (40 cubic foot) you could certainly just go sealed. You could easily accommodate 4 sealed enclosures and simply purchase enough amplification when you want to add additional drivers. So just start with two and pre-wire for an additional 2 or 3.

An Infinity 120.9w in a 5 ft sealed enclosure with 100% poly-fil should dig plenty deep. Can you post pics of the room with emphasis on the spot they will go in?

I assume that I would be requiring some EQ to flatten the response in such a design?

I just posted some pics of my HT last night. The "Bluenose Theatre".

 

[jinjuku]

I assume that I would be requiring some EQ to flatten the response in such a design?

I just posted some pics of my HT last night. The "Bluenose Theatre".

No, not really. With that much volume and a suitable driver the roll off will be natural. Sealed designs come into their own when given enough volume. They have the advantage of simple build, zero chance of port resonance above the fundamental and no need for a high-pass/rumble filter to protect the driver from unloading. All wins in my book if you have the space (which you do).

Every sub regardless of design has an EQ anyways. Sealed, ported, band-pass, etc...

The nice thing about a managed EQ is you can have different settings. Maybe a ruler flat 20-80Hz, maybe a house curve with +3db from 35-55Hz etc. Takes me about 5 seconds to recall a ruler flat, or house curve, or music preset from my DCX. This is something a sealed designs excel at: Frequency Contouring. Ask TLS, Avaserfi, Ananuki.

 

[GO-NAD!]

No, not really. With that much volume and a suitable driver the roll off will be natural. Sealed designs come into their own when given enough volume. They have the advantage of simple build, zero chance of port resonance above the fundamental and no need for a high-pass/rumble filter to protect the driver from unloading. All wins in my book if you have the space (which you do).

Every sub regardless of design has an EQ anyways. Sealed, ported, band-pass, etc...

The nice thing about a managed EQ is you can have different settings. Maybe a ruler flat 20-80Hz, maybe a house curve with +3db from 35-55Hz etc. Takes me about 5 seconds to recall a ruler flat, or house curve, or music preset from my DCX. This is something a sealed designs excel at: Frequency Contouring. Ask TLS, Avaserfi, Ananuki.

I realize that pretty much all subs, in a typical room, can use some eq to get a desireable FR. I was just under the impression that sealed designs, in order to get that FR, tend need it more than ported, due to the generally higher roll off.

I have a DCX in my 2-channel system, the capabilities of which, I still haven't taken full advantage of, because I haven't gotten around to figuring out how. Right now, it's just an expensive HPF and crossover, rather than an inexpensive all-singing, all-dancing EQ. Some day, I'll have to roll up my sleeves and figure the thing out. I've downloaded REW - still clueless about it.

If I can avoid having to incorporate external EQ into my HT setup, I'd favour that, because head office will be giving the subwoofer project a hairy eyeball with regard to budget. We've spent a big chunk of change on the rec room reno and projector project over the last few months. "Bang for the buck" will be a key phrase for a subwoofer project. Placement behind the false wall will be a must, which is why I favour 2 subs at 1/4 distance from the sidewalls, in order to help even out the FR.

Then again, one "super-sub", with EQ, could even out the cost of 2 lesser subs....hmmm....just has to fit in the available space. I wonder about the Anti-Mode 8033 - that could simplify EQ.

If it looks like I'm rambling - it's because I am rambling...

 

[GranteedEV]

I had to google "LLT". I read up on the concept in a post at HTS. It looks like it may be the way to go. I've seen pics of sonotube subs, but I'd have to do a lot of reading up on it, before attempting. I would imagine that a conventional enclosure would work as well?

a conventional MDF enclosure for a large (well damped) low tuned ported box with proper bracing would require a forklift to move! what sonotube offers is a rigid enclosure which is light enough to be usable. you could maybe use bamboo or plywood to make it lighter but would still need two people and cost goes up. big boxes are worthwhile but you need to factor in weight which is why sonotube is great.

 

[jinjuku]

I realize that pretty much all subs, in a typical room, can use some eq to get a desireable FR. I was just under the impression that sealed designs, in order to get that FR, tend need it more than ported, due to the generally higher roll off.

That is true of small, sealed enclosures. Fortunately you don't have that problem.

I have a DCX in my 2-channel system, the capabilities of which, I still haven't taken full advantage of, because I haven't gotten around to figuring out how. Right now, it's just an expensive HPF and crossover, rather than an inexpensive all-singing, all-dancing EQ. Some day, I'll have to roll up my sleeves and figure the thing out. I've downloaded REW - still clueless about it.

The DCX user guide is actually well written. They even have 5.1 setup example.

If I can avoid having to incorporate external EQ into my HT setup, I'd favour that, because head office will be giving the subwoofer project a hairy eyeball with regard to budget. We've spent a big chunk of change on the rec room reno and projector project over the last few months. "Bang for the buck" will be a key phrase for a subwoofer project. Placement behind the false wall will be a must, which is why I favour 2 subs at 1/4 distance from the sidewalls, in order to help even out the FR.

You can always do this in stages. Plenty of used pro amplification on Craigslist in the Music Instrument section.

Then again, one "super-sub", with EQ, could even out the cost of 2 lesser subs....hmmm....just has to fit in the available space. I wonder about the Anti-Mode 8033 - that could simplify EQ.

That is just as expensive as a DCX 2496. Plus the DCX will take one input and let you output to six channels of amplification.

 

[jinjuku]

I would look at the Tempest X from Diycable.com it's ~$300 shipped and in a 24.75 X 24.75 X 24.75 box with some window bracing it will dig down to about 108dB in room at 20Hz with no EQ at 100 watts. It will be 6dB down at 10Hz.

Add a second sub and you are at 111db in room typical. Not bad for a simple build.

Now obviously the ported versions will have more output near the port tuning. But nothing a quality amp and some EQ can't take care of in a sealed enclosure.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I would look at the Tempest X from Diycable.com it's ~$300 shipped and in a 24.75 X 24.75 X 24.75 box with some window bracing it will dig down to about 108dB in room at 20Hz with no EQ at 100 watts. It will be 6dB down at 10Hz.

Add a second sub and you are at 111db in room typical. Not bad for a simple build.

Now obviously the ported versions will have more output near the port tuning. But nothing a quality amp and some EQ can't take care of in a sealed enclosure.

Holy moly! That's unreal! However, I don't know if they ship to Canada. If they do, I'm sure it would cost more like $400 before it gets to my door...