If you've got kids (or grand-kids) in public school, you really should read this.

[markw]

So, I guess that "no child left behind" really means "pass everyone whether they deserve it or not".

'"MIAMI — Nearly one-fourth of the students who try to join the U.S. Army fail its entrance exam, painting a grim picture of an education system that produces graduates who can't answer basic math, science and reading questions, according to a new study released Tuesday.

"Too many of our high school students are not graduating ready to begin college or a career — and many are not eligible to serve in our armed forces," U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan told the AP. "I am deeply troubled by the national security burden created by America's underperforming education system."'

Click here for the full story.

 

[oppman99]

I can't say I'm really surprised. I'm an educator myself and agree with much of what is in the article. For those that aren't familiar with public education, two of the criteria schools are rated on are freshman failure rate and graduation rate. There is an incentive for schools to pass students because it looks good on paper. This is one of the things that really gets me steaming mad! In the past, we had a building principle (no longer with us fortunately) who was encouraging core subject area teachers not to fail so many students. If we really want to compete with foreign countries, we need to be upping the standards, not lowering the bar. Unfortunately, in the quest for the highest possble grade point average, many students avoid the difficult classes. If we really want things to change, it will require a cultural shift. Hard work and actually learning something are not valued nearly as much as they were even two decades ago. Now it's all about a high gpa and getting accepted to college, whether the person is prepared or not.

There are some sweeping changes in the works on the national level that have the potential to cause a very positive impact on education. It's going to come down to how they are implemented if they will change things for the better or not. In my opinion it will come down to accountability, starting with the student and continuing through the administrative level.

 

[markw]

I don't place the blame fully on the school system. I see where some peoples take full advantage of what it can do, if used properly.

Not to sound racist, but many people from overseas do well in the same schools where native Americans whine about too much homework and strict grading.

Parents have to take a goodly portion of the blame. Without them taking an active role in their kid's education and expecting the school to do everything, they are setting the kid up for failure. And, when they go crying to the school about their kid's poor grads, it just gets worse.

You're right. A paradigm shift is needed and unless it happens soon, well, didja ever see "Idiocracy"? Either that, or we'll be a pure two class socicity; The rich, and those that serve them.

 

[JerryLove]

You mean you can't water your plants with Gatoraid?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

You mean you can't water your plants with Gatoraid?

Water? Like from the toilet ??

 

[Stereodude]

Water? Like from the toilet ??

That doesn't have electrolytes. I wouldn't use it.

 

[Stereodude]

I like how a poor education system is a threat to National Security. That and global warming.

 

[SopRage]

Either that, or we'll be a pure two class socicity; The rich, and those that serve them.

You can make the argument we're already there...

 

[Nemo128]

The educators that want to and try to change the situation get screwed by the politicians, the parents, and the students themselves. Honestly the last person to blame is the person in the classroom teaching the curriculums, and I think markw hit it on the head with assigning a large part of the blame on the parents.

As a part time college and high school instructor in the past, I came across students from foreign backgrounds that were engaged in calculus before they finished their equivalent of grammar school.

SopRage, it's a pretty valid argument.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

I remember that the High School I graduated from (in 1986) had a policy that the teacher could not give a mark on a report card of less than a 50 unless there was a good reason for it. Can you say trying to keep the overall average up? Whats funny is that I received a few numbers lower than a 50. (That 9 got my parents attention!) I never did find out what was considered a good reason... Must have been my glowing personality!

In my experience bad teachers out number good teachers 2 to 1 and great teachers are few and far between and all of them are tied to the system so parents have to be vigilant and do there best to motivate the student.

 

[Rickster71]

This movie says it all about our failing public school system.
http://www.thecartelmovie.com/

 

[oppman99]

This movie says it all about our failing public school system.
http://www.thecartelmovie.com/

I would call that movie a piece of propaganda created with a specific agenda in mind. Are some of the points valid? Yes, but to use hand picked examples to make a blanket statement about the conditions of ALL public schools simply is not accurate. It reminds me of political adds run during campaigning. Placing blame just inflames public sentiment and doesn't do anything to rectify the situation. New ideas and ways of attacking the issues are what is really needed. Take the politicians out of the equation, they have no clue about how to provide a quality education, as evidenced by "No Child Left Behind". Unfortunately they are the ones responsible for the mandates and funding.

 

[Chu Gai]

Check out what these 8 year old kids did! Impressed? I am!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20101222/sc_yblog_thelookout/study-by-8-year-olds-published-in-prestigious-science-journal

 

[Rickster71]

I would call that movie a piece of propaganda created with a specific agenda in mind. Are some of the points valid? Yes, but to use hand picked examples to make a blanket statement about the conditions of ALL public schools simply is not accurate. It reminds me of political adds run during campaigning. Placing blame just inflames public sentiment and doesn't do anything to rectify the situation. New ideas and ways of attacking the issues are what is really needed. Take the politicians out of the equation, they have no clue about how to provide a quality education, as evidenced by "No Child Left Behind". Unfortunately they are the ones responsible for the mandates and funding.

I'm afraid one man's propaganda, is another man's head in the sand.
Our system has been one of poor results well before "No Child Left Behind".

http://www.geographic.org/country_ranks/educational_score_performance_country_ranks_2009_oecd.html
The global rankings for Reading, Math, and Literacy, speak for themselves.
The USA spends the most on education and is ranked at the bottom for Reading scores; and in the bottom third for Math, and Science.
I'll bet you didn't even see the movie.

 

[Stereodude]

http://www.geographic.org/country_ranks/educational_score_performance_country_ranks_2009_oecd.html
The global rankings for Reading, Math, and Literacy, speak for themselves.
The USA spends the most on education and is ranked at the bottom for Reading scores; and in the bottom third for Math, and Science.
I'll bet you didn't even see the movie.

That's just because we don't spend enough and class sizes are too large.

 

[darien87]

That's pretty damn sad. The Army test is a joke. I know I smoked the hell out of it when I took it. I think there were only 7 MOS's that I didn't test high enough for and I was pissed at that. Gimme a break, what 7 jobs are there in the Army that I'm not smart enough for?

 

[oppman99]

I'm afraid one man's propaganda, is another man's head in the sand.
Our system has been one of poor results well before "No Child Left Behind".

http://www.geographic.org/country_ranks/educational_score_performance_country_ranks_2009_oecd.html
The global rankings for Reading, Math, and Literacy, speak for themselves.
The USA spends the most on education and is ranked at the bottom for Reading scores; and in the bottom third for Math, and Science.
I'll bet you didn't even see the movie.

Not sure why you think I have my head in the sand. I didn't say there weren't problems with the current system. And if you dig down past the raw numbers, you will see they don't tell the whole story. In this country we test ALL of our students in the areas listed in your link, including those with cognitive disabilities. A fair number of the countries on your list only educate the top 20-50%, so their worst performers aren't there to drag down the scores. We also have a much higher percentage of students in this country who's primary language is not English, which makes learning more difficult. It shouldn't be a surprise that many of them lag behind their peers in terms of test scores. Other countries track their students starting from a very young age and thier career choices are limited by their early success or failure. Kind of goes against our national view of equal opportunity.

Yes, we need to change the way we operate, but the situation isn't quite as disasterous as many would lead you to believe. We do need to move away from the factory mentality of providing education and start promoting creativity and higher order thinking skills over memorization. We need to stop the "social promotion" (passing kids to maintain their self-esteem) at the lower levels and raise the expectations and standards. It won't happen overnight, but it can happen. It will take support from from parents, teachers and especially politicians. The same measures many want in place to better education actually promote a decline. NCLB promotes teaching to the standardized test instead of actual learning. Yes, I know and agree there were problems before NCLB. No offense Rickster, but you are missing much of the information on this subject to see the whole picture. It doesn't all come down to numbers.

 

[Midwesthonky]

My dad has been substitute teaching in Texas for a couple of years. The latest mandate from Washington that his district is pushing down to the teachers is if a kid receives less than 70% on an exam, the kid has to be given another chance at the wrong questions. If not 70% again, then tutoring and another chance. Repeat. Get whatever grade they finally achieve after the attempts.

One of the best students that could be counted on for grade of 95% to 100% took a recent test and did less than 70%. My dad asked what was going on since it was so odd. The kid responded "why should I bust my *** to prepare for a test to get a grade above 70% when the morons that don't try get 4 attempts at the test to get a better grade than me. This way, I will get more attempts, know which ones were wrong, and I can get 100%."

So in effect, instead of trying to improve the poor performers, you have punished the good performers and taught them that hard work and studying is for the idiots. Stupidity is the best way to go.

Whatever happened to teaching kids about failure in school so they can learn about consequences before they are in college or out in life?

 

[Rickster71]

Not sure why you think I have my head in the sand.

Why? When you wrote the Cartel Movie off as "propaganda."
That movie brings attention to a huge problem that the average taxpayer wasn't aware of.
Our country simply throws money at our education system, under the guise of, "Do it for the children"
Who are we kidding?
The Union Leaders and their members won't allow changes; they're making a living (with summers off) maintaining the status quo.
Isn't it always the way? People benefiting from the broken system, are the very ones to yell "propaganda"
As I mentioned in an earlier post; I'll bet you didn't even see the movie, that you claim is propaganda.

 

[oppman99]

I've been in teaching for 10+ years and our operating budgets have been cut every single year. If that is throwing money at the problem, apparently I work in the wrong district.

Rickster, you seem to have a personal grudge against educators. Did you have a bad experience in school? Or is it you think we have it too easy? If so, I encourage you to volunteer or get involved with a local school to see what is really involved in teaching. It's not the cakewalk many think it is. If you think the workday ends when the last bell rings, you are mistaken. I'm willing to bet when your work day ends, that's it and you can go home and not think about work until the next day. Teachers have to be prepared before showing up for work the next day. Sometimes that means staying late to set up labs, sometimes grading papers or tests, but it's usually something and that's not counting coaching or club activities.

Yes, the union sometimes protects poor teachers and that is something that needs to be fixed. The example of the NJ teacher making over 90k a year is ridiculous, though I was floored by the amount. Around here, the max at retirement is around $68k with a masters degree and an additional 30 credits. As for the union not allowing changes, it is only partly true. The largest barriers to change are state laws already in place. If you are unhappy about them, I suggest getting in touch with your congressmen/women and let them know how you feel.