New House, New Theater

[strube]

Howdy!

Well, I moved and got a real job and faded away from the forums, but I suppose it is about time I fade back into the forums, to some extent at least.

Here's a story for your enjoyment (or boredom). We just bought an 1800ish sq. ft., four bedroom house, and I can do stuff to it. Yay!

I had to compromise with the wife to get a dedicated theater room (once you go dedicated, you can never go back...or at least I can't). I get to use one of the four bedrooms, so it is a bit tight space-wise, but it will do. The room is 12x12 with a decent-sized closet for gear. The entry to the room (and what turned out to be the bane of my existence) is at a 45 degree angle in one corner (pictures later).

A quick update on gear: when I was renting I grabbed myself an Axiom Audio M80 system, sans sub (the old sub works until I can build one) and some Berkline Direct theater chairs. I also upgraded to an Epson 8500UB projector, an Oppo BDP-80 and a crappy K-mart rack (since my Wyoming rack was wall-mounted and had to stay).

Soooo...without proper planning or research, I decided I wanted to recess the speakers into the closet of the next room to make the room a bit more roomy. This was a stupid idea, but hey. The main reason for this was to be able to allow my 92" Carada screen I've had forever to fit between my speakers.

It turns out the wall is a shear wall (the only one in the freaking house), so it is a 2x6 wall on a concrete footing and tied to a drag truss above, and sheeted with plywood behind the sheetrock. Apparently these crazy California builders have to worry about earthquakes or something.

Anyhoo, in a moment of complete batsh!t insanity, I went at the wall with a sawzall with reckless abandon (sorry, I didn't take any pictures of that carnage). I also wanted to cut a hole for a center channel so I could to the identical three front speakers thing someday, even though my current Axiom center is a little horizontal guy. This is where the planning and research would have helped, because I mapped out the holes to be close to the floor without considering the frame of the future AT screen will be right across at least one driver of the center channel M80, should I ever get another one of those and go for such a setup. I guess I will cross that bridge if I ever come to it. As alluded to earlier, the entry region of the room was where the left speaker hole needed to be, cut in a 45 degree wall but (in theory) parallel to the other speaker holes.

With the holes cut in the wall and two outlets sliced from careless sawzalling (at least I thought to turn off the breaker), I suppose there was no turning back. I drywalled the holes, in the process getting my first true experience with drywalling. Not a fan. That crap is an art, and I am not an artist. My holes didn't turn out to be very good, but I didn't really realize it until much later. Since I am more of a carpenter by nature, I really should have just trimmed them out...

Enough talking for this moment. Some pictures (near complete crappy drywalling job):

More to come...

 

[jostenmeat]

You probably already know this, but you need to know if the speakers have a certain BSC before you put them flush into the walls, or at least that would be ideal to know in advance. Some are designed specifically to be flush, and others to be free standing. I purposely didn't put my large sub in the front, because of this kind of fear. And yeah, crazy Californians have the strictest building codes in the world, or so my remodeler friend has told me. He said something like being able to withstand a 7.0 rumbler, X mile(s) directly below the home or something. Cheers, and congrats.

 

[strube]

You probably already know this, but you need to know if the speakers have a certain BSC before you put them flush into the walls, or at least that would be ideal to know in advance. Some are designed specifically to be flush, and others to be free standing. I purposely didn't put my large sub in the front, because of this kind of fear.

Way to make me feel stupid. Seriously though, here is where I have to admit a bit of failure to consider the effect on the sound (which for me should be punishable by death, but alas), which is why I mentioned my lack of research. You can probably better tell me the extent of how bad it is going to be. Based on the hole sizes and the way I set up the shelves for them to set on, the speakers should have about 3" of clearance all around, and the plane of the drivers should be about 1" forward of the plane of the wall. Also, there will probably be around 8-12" of clearance behind each speaker in the closet region.

And yeah, crazy Californians have the strictest building codes in the world, or so my remodeler friend has told me. He said something like being able to withstand a 7.0 rumbler, X mile(s) directly below the home or something. Cheers, and congrats.

Yeah it's kinda silly, but I still did some quick enginerding calculations and determined there would be negligible effects from the two small (relatively speaking) holes. The hole in the angley part of the wall wasn't part of the shear wall, fortunately.

 

[Alex2507]

This is a quote from Swerd:

Read this article about baffle step compensation (BSC).

It didn't help me much cause I got hungry and forgot what I was doing once I got to the fridge. Fat people have short attention spans and poor memories.

So anyway ... let me congratulate you on being absolutely fearless with the sawzall on a shear wall. That alone would qualify you to do drywall work had you not covered the furniture with plastic but still ... you are a beast!

I wonder how far along you are with this. Is it just where the pic's indicate or is there more progress?

 

[strube]

This is a quote from Swerd:

Read this article about baffle step compensation (BSC).

It didn't help me much cause I got hungry and forgot what I was doing once I got to the fridge. Fat people have short attention spans and poor memories.

Thanks for the link. I can see how you would lose attention reading that article. It only made about 75% sense to me, but only due to certain formal educations. Being a so-called audioholic, I really need to get familiar with all the speaker design business instead of just projector and AV component stuff.

So anyway ... let me congratulate you on being absolutely fearless with the sawzall on a shear wall. That alone would qualify you to do drywall work had you not covered the furniture with plastic but still ... you are a beast!
I wonder how far along you are with this. Is it just where the pic's indicate or is there more progress?

Also, thanks for the compliments! At this point it's primed and mostly painted. I just had to quit the postage for the night, I will catch up with more details and pics. But anyway, now that I am a working stiff, it is past my bedtime.

 

[timoteo]

As best said by "Neo"....WWuuoooooo!

You lost me at howdy, then again at sooooo....& Im a construction worker/audioholic.

Credit for the guts! But lay off the powder buddy, my head is spinning!

Enjoy?

 

[GO-NAD!]

Strube, I admire your hell-bent-for-leather approach to renovation. If you understood 75% of that BSC article, you did well. I got about 2% of it. I understand what it is, in priciple, but that's about it. Don't think I'll be building anything beyond subwoofers anytime soon. Good luck with the rest of the destru... I mean renovation.

 

[strube]

Thanks for the compliments, guys. Fear is overrated.

Way to make me feel stupid. Seriously though, here is where I have to admit a bit of failure to consider the effect on the sound (which for me should be punishable by death, but alas), which is why I mentioned my lack of research. You can probably better tell me the extent of how bad it is going to be. Based on the hole sizes and the way I set up the shelves for them to set on, the speakers should have about 3" of clearance all around, and the plane of the drivers should be about 1" forward of the plane of the wall. Also, there will probably be around 8-12" of clearance behind each speaker in the closet region.

I should actually rephrase: I did consider the affect on sound, but I concluded that this layout was going to be the only way I could fit the chairs I have and getting the speakers to fit outside the screen (I really didn't want to hang the screen above the speakers; that would have been a neck-straining endeavor every time we watched a film). I have convinced myself this was pretty much the only way do do it without changing any other gear or having a speaker completely in the doorway. I guess it was more an intentional sacrifice on sound to make the room work. I am hoping I can mitigate said sacrifices with room treatments and Audyssey.

Originally, I was going to demo the whole wall and close in the closet hole of the next room to get another 28" out of the room, but the shear wall thing pretty much hosed that idea.

Well...off to work.

 

[jostenmeat]

Way to make me feel stupid. Seriously though, here is where I have to admit a bit of failure to consider the effect on the sound (which for me should be punishable by death, but alas), which is why I mentioned my lack of research. You can probably better tell me the extent of how bad it is going to be. Based on the hole sizes and the way I set up the shelves for them to set on, the speakers should have about 3" of clearance all around, and the plane of the drivers should be about 1" forward of the plane of the wall. Also, there will probably be around 8-12" of clearance behind each speaker in the closet region.

Sorry about the curt post, as I really was short on time, and I wanted to transmit what I knew as quickly as possible before batsh!t enginerd wielded the mighty sawzall yet again. TBH, if I was a betting man, I'd bet that you are smarter than me. Well, does that make us dumb and dumberer?

The cutout by the door, this is for equipment? Perhaps a sub?

I would contact Axiom, and see what they say about their speakers and for any other ameliorating advice, or tweaks, or even say a xover schematic just for you, but leaving alone BSC? Maybe they don't even use BSC, though I would guess they do (it's an oversight/fault with some manufacturers, so far as I know).

However, my 8-ball fortune teller has revealed that your future holds DIY speakers specially designed for your situation, including driver heights to allow AT, and infinite baffle considerations.

AT is awesome. You got to try it. The Seymour is very* affordable, and it simply looks awesome too. It is one of the most color accurate out of the prebuilt price point competition, but at the low cost of fabric, there is nothing else like it. The only consideration is if you can detect its texture at close distance. I cannot, and neither has any guest (of many now) from 12ft, and I still cannot from closer than that, say 9-10ish. It's just that at your 12' max distance, say you're off the wall a bit, it might start getting close. Those with golden eyes say you want to be roughly 11.5' away (but most of mortals still can't tell at closer than that). You are now advised to actually pay up the $20 for the 2x2 sample, rather than the free 1x1 sample (if I got those sizes right). I also highly recommend the Fidelio fabric, to me, it's a no brainer.

(edit: oh, just in case you mull it over sometimes, I think* you'd like at least 1" from speakers to fabric . . .?)

Now, if you are very close, still want AT, and have very good vision, you will then need one of those uber micro weaves. The problem is that they are very expensive, and only come as prebuilt for QC purposes I believe. I know the Seymour/Screen Innovations (is that the right name) is ISF 4K certified, and you can sit as close as like 4ft away, maybe even closer.

 

[strube]

Sorry about the curt post, as I really was short on time, and I wanted to transmit what I knew as quickly as possible before batsh!t enginerd wielded the mighty sawzall yet again. TBH, if I was a betting man, I'd bet that you are smarter than me. Well, does that make us dumb and dumberer?

That sounds terrifyingly reasonable (the dumb and dumberer part), but I am not sure which one of us is which.

The cutout by the door, this is for equipment? Perhaps a sub?

I will throw some better pics up in a few. the cutout by the door is actually the unfortunate hole for to stick the left speaker.

I would contact Axiom, and see what they say about their speakers and for any other ameliorating advice, or tweaks, or even say a xover schematic just for you, but leaving alone BSC? Maybe they don't even use BSC, though I would guess they do (it's an oversight/fault with some manufacturers, so far as I know).

Check out my previous post, where I took a moment to stop calling myself crazy and describe things a bit of more logically (cough...rationalization...cough), though I do hate myself for compromising my sound. That is good advice though; once I get things up and running I will give Axiom a call and see what I can do to minimize issues.

However, my 8-ball fortune teller has revealed that your future holds DIY speakers specially designed for your situation, including driver heights to allow AT, and infinite baffle considerations.

AT is awesome. You got to try it. The Seymour is very* affordable, and it simply looks awesome too. It is one of the most color accurate out of the prebuilt price point competition, but at the low cost of fabric, there is nothing else like it. The only consideration is if you can detect its texture at close distance. I cannot, and neither has any guest (of many now) from 12ft, and I still cannot from closer than that, say 9-10ish. It's just that at your 12' max distance, say you're off the wall a bit, it might start getting close. Those with golden eyes say you want to be roughly 11.5' away (but most of mortals still can't tell at closer than that). You are now advised to actually pay up the $20 for the 2x2 sample, rather than the free 1x1 sample (if I got those sizes right). I also highly recommend the Fidelio fabric, to me, it's a no brainer.

(edit: oh, just in case you mull it over sometimes, I think* you'd like at least 1" from speakers to fabric . . .?)

Now, if you are very close, still want AT, and have very good vision, you will then need one of those uber micro weaves. The problem is that they are very expensive, and only come as prebuilt for QC purposes I believe. I know the Seymour/Screen Innovations (is that the right name) is ISF 4K certified, and you can sit as close as like 4ft away, maybe even closer.

You must be psychic. I have been drooling over the Seymour screen since I started this project. Unfortunately the wife is pushing back hard with the "no more HT stuff for a long time" thing, so we will see if I get to do anything else as long as I live here.

 

[jostenmeat]

You must be psychic. I have been drooling over the Seymour screen since I started this project. Unfortunately the wife is pushing back hard with the "no more HT stuff for a long time" thing, so we will see if I get to do anything else as long as I live here.

If you are thinking of replicating your current size, my guess is that 96" x 63" would be enough to allow you to get some tilt in, and yet it would still only be $103.60 before shipping. IOW, you could sell your Carada perhaps, and conceivably make money on this upgrade. If you want maximum tilt, by getting the 98" wide (tall), the price would jump considerably. I'd contact Chris to see what he thinks.

You can be dumberer. I'll be dumberest.

 

[strube]

More stuff...

Here's the rest of the story. I finished wiring, thank God. I hate the attic. I ran 5.1 plus height channels for possible future additions, HDMI to the projector and to the shelf in the closet above the left front speaker for to put the media server (along with a relocated outlet and several cat 6 wires to various locations throughout the house), and a couple of sub inputs.

I also ran myself an (almost) entire new circuit for the theater gear, with one outlet for the rack in the closet, one for the PJ, and one for the sub(s). Fortunately, the kind soul who owned this here house before had a 20 amp circuit installed and had a single outlet hooked to said circuit in the garage, so I was able to just tie into that outlet for the three theater outlets, rather than pay an electrician to hook me up. I made the garage outlet black so as to remind me it is a theater outlet and not to use it when the theater is in use.

Oh...and I ran 5.0 surround in the living room a while back. I'll put up pics of that someday too. Did I mention how much I hate the attic?

Pics? Yes.

Here's the center speaker stand I built out of poplar for the last house. I didn't finish it then but I am thinking since I have no stained wood theme in the new theater I am going to paint it wall-color. There's also a dog making a funny face.

Here's a much better picture of the entire front wall (partial painting in progress). I mudded the whole wall to get rid of the texture, or at least to lighten it up a bunch, so I didn't have to worry about texture matching. You can see some slight wonkyness (yes, that's right, wonkyness) in the left speaker hole, and the left edge of the center speaker hole is wonky too. I didn't notice the wonkyness until it was primed. Boo drywall. I failed. (Hey Alex: can I put mud over primer? Is it worth it to try and get the wonkyness out of the right side of that left speaker hole? I was thinking I might not be able to see it as bad with black velvet over everything, which is the plan...)

..and some other pics with partial paint applied.

...and some more pics with almost finished paint.

I plan on velveting the front screen wall, so I haven't decided whether or not I need to paint it. The glory that is McMaster-Carr has adhesive-backed velvet that is most excellent, but it is also 20 bucks a yard. I am hoping to go with Sy Fabrics black plush triple velvet and some 3M Super 77 adhesive instead (at $7.50 a yard plus the gloo), but I haven't experimented with that.

That pretty much gets us up to speed. I used "Gripper Gray" tinted Glidden primer from the Depot upon recommendations from some random forum searches through here and AVS. My first can was chunky but the second one was great. Bad quality control, but good batches are quite good for this application. By the way, Sherwin Williams Duration paint over Glidden primer is awesome. Unfortunately for me, I bought 3 cans and used some of only one can for all of my two coats, and I can't return mixed paint, AFAIK. Anyone need some nice deep-blue-gray matte paint for their HT??

I have secret plans for the window, a non-fan light fixture that will actually clear the projection beam and an IR dimmer switch (came via UPS today, woohoo! I ordered it Wednesday. I must recommend whatever store it was that I ordered this light fixture ), and nine-ish acoustic panels made from Johns Manville's equivalent of Owens Corning 703 and 1x #2 pine and some pretty fabric. There may be a few other surprises in store as well, but I will leave the suspense to do it's thing on that.

 

[jostenmeat]

I plan on velveting the front screen wall, so I haven't decided whether or not I need to paint it. The glory that is McMaster-Carr has adhesive-backed velvet that is most excellent, but it is also 20 bucks a yard. I am hoping to go with Sy Fabrics black plush triple velvet and some 3M Super 77 adhesive instead (at $7.50 a yard plus the gloo), but I haven't experimented with that.

That SY looks like a great value. Here is a post of Seymour's with the measurements of 8 different velvets/fabrics.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14764150&postcount=232

I am using the Fidelio, and I used Super77. I didn't, but I do recommend wearing a mask. I think I was high for days. Then I notice the warning on the can about how the stuff is very dangerous to the nervous system.

If other velvets are anything like Fidelio, I recommend doing the final cuts at the every end, and not before gluing, at least with Super77. I had the cuts perfect, but when finally applying the spray, it appeared that the velvet was shrinking! It took a lot of stressing of the fabric and a lot of praying for it to work out. Luckily, it came out great. Had I used a staple gun instead, I bet it would have been much less stressful.

That pretty much gets us up to speed. I used "Gripper Gray" tinted Glidden primer from the Depot upon recommendations from some random forum searches through here and AVS. My first can was chunky but the second one was great. Bad quality control, but good batches are quite good for this application. By the way, Sherwin Williams Duration paint over Glidden primer is awesome. Unfortunately for me, I bought 3 cans and used some of only one can for all of my two coats, and I can't return mixed paint, AFAIK. Anyone need some nice deep-blue-gray matte paint for their HT??

Hm, thanks for the offer, I'll let you know. Have any need for Behr Mouse Ears flat black?

 

[Alex2507]

mud on primer = no problemo

get a metal j-molding or corner bead to straighten that out

gotta go. more later.

 

[Alex2507]

get a metal j-molding or corner bead to straighten that out

Whoops ... that's wrong. This will help you with that wild angle. Placing the speaker in the hole will only draw more attention to the irregularity due to the proximity of a straight line and having it by the door means you will look at it often and so will everybody else. Make me proud.

There's even an installation guide under literature. Some really cool stuff going on with bull nose that I've never seen. Hmm ... kinda neat to be surprised after all this time.

 

[strube]

Whoops ... that's wrong. This will help you with that wild angle. Placing the speaker in the hole will only draw more attention to the irregularity due to the proximity of a straight line and having it by the door means you will look at it often and so will everybody else. Make me proud.

There's even an installation guide under literature. Some really cool stuff going on with bull nose that I've never seen. Hmm ... kinda neat to be surprised after all this time.

Won't that tape give me a sharp corner? I went bullnose on the left and right speaker holes as they will be exposed. I did sharp corner on the center speaker hole because it will be behind some speaker cloth and such.

I think my biggest mistake with the whole deal was using plastic corner bead instead of metal (and I didn't use any bead on the corner with the weird outside angle). it was wayyyy to flexy, plus my dad (who knows less about drywalling than he pretends to, I do now believe) had me use drywall screws to attach the corner beads, which made them extra wild and squiggly.

I am fairly happy with the way the right speaker hole with the bullnose came out, but the other two...not so much...

I guess I better fix it though, or it will bother me forever.

Thanks, Alex!

 

[strube]

If you are thinking of replicating your current size, my guess is that 96" x 63" would be enough to allow you to get some tilt in, and yet it would still only be $103.60 before shipping. IOW, you could sell your Carada perhaps, and conceivably make money on this upgrade. If you want maximum tilt, by getting the 98" wide (tall), the price would jump considerably. I'd contact Chris to see what he thinks.

You can be dumberer. I'll be dumberest.

Fair enough.

I will have to give Chris a call at some point. I need (i.e. want) a biscuit jointer to make my screen. It's on my list anyway. I think you could be right about the Carada screen. It is about a 6/10 condition though because there is one spot where the screen sags the slightest bit. It isn't noticeable until about 1' away though, so I should probably at least be in the break-even region...

That SY looks like a great value. Here is a post of Seymour's with the measurements of 8 different velvets/fabrics.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14764150&postcount=232

I am using the Fidelio, and I used Super77. I didn't, but I do recommend wearing a mask. I think I was high for days. Then I notice the warning on the can about how the stuff is very dangerous to the nervous system.

If other velvets are anything like Fidelio, I recommend doing the final cuts at the every end, and not before gluing, at least with Super77. I had the cuts perfect, but when finally applying the spray, it appeared that the velvet was shrinking! It took a lot of stressing of the fabric and a lot of praying for it to work out. Luckily, it came out great. Had I used a staple gun instead, I bet it would have been much less stressful.

Cool, thanks for the link. I assume that triple velvet from the chart is what I was looking at. Seems to be sufficient, and a bargain as well. I am glad you mentioned the mask and the post-glue cutting. I am okay with stapling wherever the screen will cover up the edges of the velvet, but I definitely don't want to see any of the staples.

Thanks very much for the tip on cutting after gluing! I would almost certainly have done it the same way you did.

I have a swatch of the triple velvet coming and I should be able to see, at least approximately, how staple and glue-friendly it is. Did you have any trouble with glue seeping through the Fidelio velvet?

 

[Alex2507]

Won't that tape give me a sharp corner?

Yes. The right side of the left hole looks like it's about 45 degrees and I thought you might need something that would give you an adjustable angle. I can't imagine how you flattened out the bullnose enough to make it conform to that angle but that one looks really crooked and might need to be removed for a straight one to be installed. Here's like bead installation 101. Place an 8" long piece of bead where the bead starts (say at the floor in your case) and with a pencil mark where the left an right edges of the bead land on the wall. Repeat where the bead ends (at the top of the hole in your case) and connect the upper and lower points with a straight edge or snap a chalk line to connect the points. Now you have a reference to what straight is as you clinch/staple/screw the bead on. Even if you have to veer away from straight you can do so gradually to avoid sharp waves that your eye will later notice.

What I thought was interesting in the installation guide was that they have a bottom piece for the bullnose to get it back to square for baseboard and they also had some product for inside angles with pieces to get you past where a wall and ceiling corner meet. Since I don't work with that stuff my inner drywall geek gets aroused. It's probably similar to when you discover new computer gear.

What's up with the speaker stands/grey things in the holes? Are they fixed and touching the walls? I'm kind of curious how you plan to get around the 'bullnose/baseboard/fabric/speaker stand' junction. I think it's important for you to have that figured out well in advance. I would just like to see a close up shot of that corner detail when you're done. Nice stand BTW. Paint sounds good.

I think it's funny that you're blaming your father and the plastic material for the wave in your bead installation because we all know it couldn't be the installer. When guys at work gripe about cheap/faulty tools I am never able to resist saying that I think the fault lies with the operator. Yeah ... I'm Mr. Personality where ever I go.

I hope I helped with the bead business and look forward to seeing that one particular close up the finished product. I can't remember if you mentioned what you were doing for bass in that room but MikeC needs to know. It's cool seeing this come together. I'm interested to see what you do for fabric with your sound panels. I had a hard time finding something that was easy to breathe through and stout enough to keep the fibers from poking through.

EDIT: Is there only one window? I just re-read the thread and saw that you didn't use bead on the weird angle. Maybe you could build out the swail with E-Z Sand 20 and then work it (shave/file/scrape) down while it's setting up (known as kicking). It's when the chemical reaction makes it impossible to spread but it still has moisture in it and can be worked kind of like clay.

 

[strube]

What's up with the speaker stands/grey things in the holes? Are they fixed and touching the walls? I'm kind of curious how you plan to get around the 'bullnose/baseboard/fabric/speaker stand' junction. I think it's important for you to have that figured out well in advance. I would just like to see a close up shot of that corner detail when you're done. Nice stand BTW. Paint sounds good.

The speaker shelves are painted MDF which are screwed to the bottom 2x4 plate. I put them in before I did the drywall so I would have a look similar to the window sill where there is a sill hanging out past the edges of the hole on each side. I will get a close-up pic for you when I am done playing in the mud.

I think it's funny that you're blaming your father and the plastic material for the wave in your bead installation because we all know it couldn't be the installer. When guys at work gripe about cheap/faulty tools I am never able to resist saying that I think the fault lies with the operator. Yeah ... I'm Mr. Personality where ever I go.

Don't worry about it. I am not blaming my father or the bead, I was blaming my total lack of knowledge and skill, and my desire to "do it myself" without asking for more help when I should.

I hope I helped with the bead business and look forward to seeing that one particular close up the finished product. I can't remember if you mentioned what you were doing for bass in that room but MikeC needs to know. It's cool seeing this come together. I'm interested to see what you do for fabric with your sound panels. I had a hard time finding something that was easy to breathe through and stout enough to keep the fibers from poking through.

I have no idea where my sub is going to go. I don't think there is room for it! I really kind of need a smallish form factor, sealed sub for this particular room layout (or two), but I am not allowed to buy anything new, so I have to make the old Paradigm PS-1200 work until I am allowed to buy/build a sub (or two).

I spent a long time at JoAnn fabrics looking like a confused, overwhelmed seamstress. The quilting fabric was nice and thin and cheap, and very easy to breathe through, and there were tons of colors. I was about to buy that action but my wife thought it was too cheap of fabric, so I got some sort of linen garment fabric. It was only slightly heavier but it had some pretty decent heft and texture, and it will look way better than burlap and perform way better than microsuede.

EDIT: Is there only one window? I just re-read the thread and saw that you didn't use bead on the weird angle. Maybe you could build out the swail with E-Z Sand 20 and then work it (shave/file/scrape) down while it's setting up (known as kicking). It's when the chemical reaction makes it impossible to spread but it still has moisture in it and can be worked kind of like clay.

Yeah, there is only one window. I am going to close it up in what I consider a very unique and creative fashion. You shall see.

I did my thing last night before I waited for you to tell me how it's done. Basically, since the back side of that weird angle was pretty straight where I did use corner bead, I taped a metal straight edge along the outside of the wall where the outside corner should fall, and used that as a guide to mud it in properly with the 10 inch blade. There was a lot of mud in the middle region so I am thinking it will need another coat due to shrinkage. Once it is dry and has enough coats I am planning on popping said straight edge off and working at the corner as you have suggested, and with some sandpaper too.

I am off to get to work on other things that need doing. I need to sand and paint the projector shelf now, and maybe work on said window coverage.

 

[jostenmeat]

Fair enough.

I will have to give Chris a call at some point. I need (i.e. want) a biscuit jointer to make my screen. It's on my list anyway. I think you could be right about the Carada screen. It is about a 6/10 condition though because there is one spot where the screen sags the slightest bit. It isn't noticeable until about 1' away though, so I should probably at least be in the break-even region...

Cool, thanks for the link. I assume that triple velvet from the chart is what I was looking at. Seems to be sufficient, and a bargain as well. I am glad you mentioned the mask and the post-glue cutting. I am okay with stapling wherever the screen will cover up the edges of the velvet, but I definitely don't want to see any of the staples.

Thanks very much for the tip on cutting after gluing! I would almost certainly have done it the same way you did.

I have a swatch of the triple velvet coming and I should be able to see, at least approximately, how staple and glue-friendly it is. Did you have any trouble with glue seeping through the Fidelio velvet?

OK, just to clarify, what exactly are you doing with the velvet? This is only for a future screen, your present screen, or something else entirely?

I also assumed that the Triple Velvets are the same. I read "triple velvet" often enough, and I just assumed there would only be one true product. I guess we should confirm that there isn't some imitator involved.

I probably exaggerated about the S77, but still, I do recommend a mask. My friend (remodeler) who recommended this product doesn't care, but FWIW, he did buy some gnarly masks finally for other things like painting, after I bothered him about how bad sawdust is to breathe in.

The glue did not seep visibly. (Different story with liquid cement via brush, through thin speaker cloth.) You spray it on, wait a little bit for it to get tacky, apply. The 3M comes in different sized cans, and if this is for a screen border, I recommend the smallest can, because the nozzle is smaller; less overspray or more accuracy. I know you can at least get the smaller can in a combo pack, but perhaps it's available individually too. Get cheap plastic to cover the working area.

My recommendation is to spray like 90% of the fabric length, or I guess I should say all of it except for say the last half foot on each extremity. Make cut, then glue final portions/ends.