Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout Planned

[hopjohn]

What this article says to me is that certain manufacturers are used to expecting and getting safe, reliable review results. When that isn't guaranteed everything else becomes "problematic". This does a great deal to explain all the garbage that has been spewed in nearly every print periodical associated with electronics review for the last thirty or more years. It's my hope that Gene and all involved are documenting, archiving etc. these events so that someday, hopefully, readers can get a peek behind the curtain.

 

[gene]

[Now if he was approached and just wasn't interested, that's fine. I just got a sense that the seaton sound submersive wasn't considered because the website is a bit on the underdeveloped side.

We have nothing against Seaton as he seems like a straight up guy and his products look nice. I was trying to focus this shootout on more mainstream, established brands. Funky was the exception as they were the first unknown company suggested in this thread. I can't bog down Paul with anymore products. The poor guy is testing subwoofers in 100deg weather on a daily basis for me as it is now. Perhaps in the next round we will focus on more DIY products.

 

[GranteedEV]

We have nothing against Seaton as he seems like a straight up guy and his products look nice. I was trying to focus this shootout on more mainstream, established brands. Funky was the exception as they were the first unknown company suggested in this thread. I can't bog down Paul with anymore products. The poor guy is testing subwoofers in 100deg weather on a daily basis for me as it is now. Perhaps in the next round we will focus on more DIY products.

That's fine, I understand that Paul's only human...

it's just that the Seatons seem to have established them on the avs boards as being "the commercial subwoofer to beat"... In fact that's the conclusion I seemed to come across as I was trying to figure out which subwoofer to buy last summer. $2000 for a single sub was ultimately out of MY price range but it certainly fits this shootout.

My main issue was that seemed to correlate the Seaton stuff to be "DIY".

Custom drivers produced at some level of a mass scale specifically for that sub, custom OEM amps, put together and fine tuned by a guy who gained experience in the public address industry... and he's got plenty of the submersive in stock. It's also designed very commercially with its (relatively) small footprint.

Now the fact that there's enough subs in the shootout is very understandable... I just wish you would stop associating Seaton's stuff with "DIY". It's no more DIY than the Rythmik or Epik stuff or maybe even HSU stuff.

Now, I understand the reasoning for funkywaves, but that's a separate scenario.

 

[billy p]

That's fine, I understand that Paul's only human...

it's just that the Seatons seem to have established them on the avs boards as being "the commercial subwoofer to beat"... my issue was that you consider the Seaton stuff to be "DIY". Proprietary drivers, proprietary OEM amps, put together by a guy who's been employed in the public address industry before... and he's got plenty of the submersive in stock. It's also designed very commercially with its (relatively) small footprint.

Now the fact that there's enough subs in the shootout is very understandable... I just wish you would stop associating Seaton's stuff with "DIY". It's no more DIY than the Rythmik, Epik, or maybe even HSU stuff.

Yeah Funkywaves was added because we(Canucks) don't have viable duty free alternatives(outside of Svs or cough cough ...axiom) and from what I understand he recently opened up a audio showroom in BC for the walk up crowd...

 

[GranteedEV]

Yeah Funkywaves was added because we(Canucks) don't have viable duty free alternatives and from what I understand and recently opened up a audio showroom in BC for the walk up crowd...

Yeah, I wish I know about funky waves last summer.. I maybe wouldn't be in this predicament I'm in
right now trying to figure out the right box for my driver... i literally have four different options!... Okay I invite this predicament if all goes as planned @_@

 

[djreef]

What happened to the SVS adds? Hmmm .


DJ

 

[Matt34]

What happened to the SVS adds? Hmmm .


DJ

I have all the ads turned off but I don't think SVS has been a advertiser for a couple years now.

 

[JJMP50]

Reading between the lines.

For the past week or so, I've been searching comparisons between universal remotes obviously because I plan on buying one. The 3 main contenders are Harmony One, URC RF50 and AR Xsight. All three get good reviews but it always comes down to comparing 2 and 3 against 1 with (not being said out loud) 1 wining. The URC and AR reviews usually mention the Harmony but never the other way around.

Same thing goes with car reviews. Other than Top Gear-BBC (my favorite car show) I've never heard Motor Week, C&D or the various shows on Speed say, "This car sucks." But they might hint that it's a little over priced.

 

[GO-NAD!]

What this article says to me is that certain manufacturers are used to expecting and getting safe, reliable review results. When that isn't guaranteed everything else becomes "problematic". This does a great deal to explain all the garbage that has been spewed in nearly every print periodical associated with electronics review for the last thirty or more years. It's my hope that Gene and all involved are documenting, archiving etc. these events so that someday, hopefully, readers can get a peek behind the curtain.

Absolutely! I'm tired of reading reviews from multiple sources, where the text is almost identical. They're obviously press releases from the manufacturers and it really irks me.

If a manufacturer has so little faith in their products, that they aren't willing to submit models for independant testing without having some control over the methodology and/or outcome - it speaks volumes to me.

 

[djreef]

I have all the ads turned off but I don't think SVS has been a advertiser for a couple years now.

Really? Wow. I need to check in more often.

DJ

 

[billy p]

Well Gene's remarks are getting some pub over at the Axiom forum....what I find funny is how some of them are downplaying the issue. I will say this, I own Axiom products and was looking to buy the some custom m22's on walls for aesthetic reasons but I'll now look elsewhere if and when the time comes because I'm ticked.

 

[Matt34]

Well Gene's remarks are getting some pub over at the Axiom forum....what I find funny is how some of them are downplaying the issue. I will say this, I own Axiom products and was looking to buy the some custom m22's on walls for aesthetic reasons but I'll now look elsewhere if and when the time comes because I'm ticked.

They seem to be placing a lot of value on the subjective side of the "shootout" and not so much the objective data that will be available on each sub using the same testing equipment and procedures...and from my understanding, by one person.

Creating bass is easy and for the one's who are properly equipped, easily measured.

The CEA 2010 standard is something this industry has needed for a long time (but there is room for improvement in the actually tests being used IMO) and it's my hope this type of "verifiable, objective information" becomes common in other categories within the A/V world.

 

[haraldo]

I'm stunningly impressed what what you guys do here.....

I'm not sure if I've seen this anywhere but have you thought of making driver impedance measurements on active subwoofers?

Perhaps this sounds crazy and perhaps it is, it requires some surgery by disconnecting driver from amp and manufacturers won't be happy about this, but it could perhaps be a good way of finding out more about the system and especially unwanted resonances may be revealed by notches in impedance curve...

Would this be useful or is it just too much trouble

 

[scott911]

reaginging the editorial about how doing reviews are hard:
most things worthwhile ARE hard...
... not too much anyone can do to get around that.

I do appreciaet what you guys do, and continue to do.

I wouldn't have heard about, or bought, AXIOM if it hadn't been for your very informative, accurate, and insightful reviews.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Audioholics was the first online source to inform me of Axiom and was a factor that went into purchasing their products. Having owned several different speakers from them I will not purchase nor recommend their products to ANYONE anymore. The irony in all this is Axiom is currently running an advertorial promoting the Axiom M3 VS the B&W 805. How are they not promoting a shootout here? . It's embarrassing that they have taken a stance of elitism to industry standard testing methods but will only rely on audio rags for garnering "industry reviews".

They have lost all credibility from me.

 

[ahblaza]

Audioholics was the first online source to inform me of Axiom and was a factor that went into purchasing their products. Having owned several different speakers from them I will not purchase nor recommend their products to ANYONE anymore. The irony in all this is Axiom is currently running an advertorial promoting the Axiom M3 VS the B&W 805. How are they not promoting a shootout here? . It's embarrassing that they have taken a stance of elitism to industry standard testing methods but will only rely on audio rags for garnering "industry reviews".

They have lost all credibility from me.

Thanks MTB for the heads up

 

[billy p]

Audioholics was the first online source to inform me of Axiom and was a factor that went into purchasing their products. Having owned several different speakers from them I will not purchase nor recommend their products to ANYONE anymore. The irony in all this is Axiom is currently running an advertorial promoting the Axiom M3 VS the B&W 805. How are they not promoting a shootout here? . It's embarrassing that they have taken a stance of elitism to industry standard testing methods but will only rely on audio rags for garnering "industry reviews".

They have lost all credibility from me.

I just read that this afternoon...lol. I better get my tin hat if I'm to venture over there...holy smokes. Btw who is TT what a diatribe.

 

[jinjuku]

I read through the thread at Axiom. I read Gene's editorial. It's funny that a word search returned zero results for Axiom.

I am not sure what they are getting in such a lather over.

I knew it was lights out for the EP Sub's when Haoleb's DIY Kappa blew Axioms $1800 monstrosity out of the water for 1/2 the price and tons more flexibility.

What Axiom has to worry about is a guy like that doing a blow by blow complete with a partial tear down of their sub.

 

[josko]

IMHO, the article comes across very whiny. I suppose it's an inside look at making a living off the A/V market - it sure doesn't make it look like a pretty place to be.

 

[gene]

IMHO, the article comes across very whiny. I suppose it's an inside look at making a living off the A/V market - it sure doesn't make it look like a pretty place to be.

I agree my article does come off a bit whiny but as owner of this site, I feel a sense of entitlement every so often to vent a small fraction of the BS I deal with on a daily basis to bring our readers FREE content. Plus it's a great place to link when we get bashed on the various forums for whatever reason(s) folks don't care for the results of one of our product reviews, or more specifically our product shootouts

Alternatively, if I actually wrote a more enthusiastic article about how great many of the companies we deal with on a daily basis are, I am sure we would get accused of pandering to our advertisers