Vinyl News

[flippo]

tonearm

I have a Thorens TD 320 TT and thinking about upgrading the stock tonearm.
What are some good choices without having to sell my firstborn?

 

[TLS Guy]

I have a Thorens TD 320 TT and thinking about upgrading the stock tonearm.
What are some good choices without having to sell my firstborn?

That turntable can take an SME arm.

If you want a vintage arm, I would recommend the SME series 3. If you want new then the M2-9

 

[3db]

Although I disagree with the author's remark of vinyl dieing off totally just becuase Technics no longe rmanufacturing their turntablea, a laser reading turntable is available now to play LPs.

http://www.highdefdiscnews.com/?p=41734

 

[audiofox]

Although I disagree with the author's remark of vinyl dieing off totally just becuase Technics no longe rmanufacturing their turntablea, a laser reading turntable is available now to play LPs.

http://www.highdefdiscnews.com/?p=41734

I couldn't find any reference to laser turntables on the site you posted, but it is not a new concept-they have fallen in and out of favor since the early 80s (sort of an analog CD player, if you will):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_turntable

 

[audiofox]

That turntable can take an SME arm.

If you want a vintage arm, I would recommend the SME series 3. If you want new then the M2-9

The SME 3009 Series 2 (improved or standard) is a good reliable tonearm that is used on numerous Thorens turntables-I had one on my old TD125 Mk II, which sounded great and now lives in the audio room of my best friend. They have apparently increased in value since I sold mine (most of the tonearms have higher prices on eBay than the entire TT/tonearm/cartridge setup I sold not more than 3 years ago), so you may need to troll the listings for awhile until you find a good deal. Audiogon is another good resource for 3009 tonearms, although they tend to be a bit more expensive (and in better condition) than those on eBay.

 

[TLS Guy]

I couldn't find any reference to laser turntables on the site you posted, but it is not a new concept-they have fallen in and out of favor since the early 80s (sort of an analog CD player, if you will):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_turntable

You are correct. Laser tracking turntables are nothing new and a bad idea, they really reinforce pops and clicks big time.

 

[Alex2507]

Laser tracking turntables really reinforce pops and clicks big time.

... but that's why I listen to vinyl.

 

[TLS Guy]

... but that's why I listen to vinyl.

I like mine quiet!

 

[Alex2507]

I thought this looked interesting.

 

[3db]

I thought this looked interesting.

What is it?

 

[Swerd]

Luddite audiophiles rejoice.

At last, a turntable that is not only immune to power fluctuations and brownouts, but will continue working in a total blackout .
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/11/steam-powered_record_player.html

 

[3db]

Other than the tone arm being mounted backwards, horrible wow and flutter and speed fluctuations, oh and maybe the curling of the LP's edge due to exhessive heat, it may work.

 

[3db]

Vinyl from a UK perspective

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/derby/hi/people_and_places/arts_and_culture/newsid_9265000/9265402.stm

 

[3db]

A different sort of turntable..I've never seen this approach before...

http://townshendaudio.com/turntables/the-rock-7/

 

[TLS Guy]

A different sort of turntable..I've never seen this approach before...

http://townshendaudio.com/turntables/the-rock-7/

That turntable epitomizes so much of what is wrong with the high end and vinyl reproduction.

First it is ugly and not very functional. The motor is driven form an oscillator and it would be simple to have a switch change the oscillator frequency to change the speed. Instead of which you have to handle and stretch the belt with greasy fingers.

The springs should be hidden in a case. Having everything hang out is asking to have the springs damaged.

The notion that the platter has to be the of similar material to an LP to optimize the sound is plain dappy!

Next the damping trough. This is executed in a fashion that adds mass to the pickup arm right at the end. This is not what you want. Viscous damping is a good idea and highly beneficial. However this is how it should be done.

And this: -

These modern LP enthusiasts have the gall to state those of us who were doing this in the hey day of the LP did not have a clue about LP reproduction are just full of hubris. It seems to me we where much more knowledgeable than the moderns.

I say vintage gear every time, and steer clear of this rubbish.

I would pick this turntable any day. And I don't have to finger the belt to change speed!

 

[3db]

That turntable epitomizes so much of what is wrong with the high end and vinyl reproduction.

First it is ugly and not very functional. The motor is driven form an oscillator and it would be simple to have a switch change the oscillator frequency to change the speed. Instead of which you have to handle and stretch the belt with greasy fingers.

The springs should be hidden in a case. Having everything hang out is asking to have the springs damaged.

The notion that the platter has to be the of similar material to an LP to optimize the sound is plain dappy!

Next the damping trough. This is executed in a fashion that adds mass to the pickup arm right at the end. This is not what you want. Viscous damping is a good idea and highly beneficial. However this is how it should be done.

And this: -

These modern LP enthusiasts have the gall to state those of us who were doing this in the hey day of the LP did not have a clue about LP reproduction are just full of hubris. It seems to me we where much more knowledgeable than the moderns.

I say vintage gear every time, and steer clear of this rubbish.

I would pick this turntable any day. And I don't have to finger the belt to change speed!

I never saw anything like this before so I had to post it. The thing I'm not crazy about is that trough of oil that helps guide the tone arm across the LP. I'm thinking the design folks put the wrong kind of mushrooms on their pizza.

 

[TLS Guy]

I never saw anything like this before so I had to post it. The thing I'm not crazy about is that trough of oil that helps guide the tone arm across the LP. I'm thinking the design folks put the wrong kind of mushrooms on their pizza.

You have not understood the purpose of the oil trough. It has nothing to do with guiding the arm. It is a damper.

Damping in my view is a prerequisite for excellent LP reproduction. Their execution is poor.

Acceleration is a vector. No record is flat and a lot far from it. As the sylus reaches the top and trough of a warp accelerational forces are huge but in opposite directions. So at the top of the warp tracking forces are dangerously reduced inviting damage and mistracking, at the trough tracking forces are greatly increased, leading to groove deformation.

If you look at my pictures you will see a curved slotted bath, that contains viscous silicone fluid. There is a paddle attached to the arm, that goes into the damping fluid. SME provide different widths of paddles for different weights and compliance of cartridges.

The system is really a mechanical capacitor. It changes the relationship between force and acceleration in a highly beneficial way, like a motor starting capacitor does.

In my view it is a prerequisite for excellent LP reproduction and really should be on all arms.

The problem with the Townshend is that they have added mass right at the end of the arm and actually beyond it, and increased the mass to be damped.

It also looks bad. Take another look at the pictures I posted and see how elegant a damping system can be.

 

[audiofox]

Mark,

My understanding was that a damping trough's greatest benefit is for warped records-from your experience, do you notice an improvement for all vinyl or just the warped ones? Also, what effect do you think it would have on records like the Telarc 1812, which has some extreme groove excursions that could conceivably get damped out by the trough? I currently do not have a damping trough for my SME Model 10 tonearm (which is basically a 309 with a removable headshell), but I have been considering adding one, more from a completeness standpoint than an actual need. The SME V trough is compatible, although a bit pricey, but I want to make sure the cost/benefit equation makes sense for this accessory before I pull the trigger.

You have not understood the purpose of the oil trough. It has nothing to do with guiding the arm. It is a damper.

Damping in my view is a prerequisite for excellent LP reproduction. Their execution is poor.

Acceleration is a vector. No record is flat and a lot far from it. As the sylus reaches the top and trough of a warp accelerational forces are huge but in opposite directions. So at the top of the warp tracking forces are dangerously reduced inviting damage and mistracking, at the trough tracking forces are greatly increased, leading to groove deformation.

If you look at my pictures you will see a curved slotted bath, that contains viscous silicone fluid. There is a paddle attached to the arm, that goes into the damping fluid. SME provide different widths of paddles for different weights and compliance of cartridges.

The system is really a mechanical capacitor. It changes the relationship between force and acceleration in a highly beneficial way, like a motor starting capacitor does.

In my view it is a prerequisite for excellent LP reproduction and really should be on all arms.

The problem with the Townshend is that they have added mass right at the end of the arm and actually beyond it, and increased the mass to be damped.

It also looks bad. Take another look at the pictures I posted and see how elegant a damping system can be.

 

[TLS Guy]

Mark,

My understanding was that a damping trough's greatest benefit is for warped records-from your experience, do you notice an improvement for all vinyl or just the warped ones? Also, what effect do you think it would have on records like the Telarc 1812, which has some extreme groove excursions that could conceivably get damped out by the trough? I currently do not have a damping trough for my SME Model 10 tonearm (which is basically a 309 with a removable headshell), but I have been considering adding one, more from a completeness standpoint than an actual need. The SME V trough is compatible, although a bit pricey, but I want to make sure the cost/benefit equation makes sense for this accessory before I pull the trigger.

First the damper will not affect frequency response, except on so far as it will make the bass tighter.

Obviously the more warped the record the grater the benefit. However really flat records are far and few between.

Yes there is a big benefit. On records that have a noise associated with the warp, the damper eliminates it.

I would say the cost of a damper is well worth it.

 

[audiofox]

First the damper will not affect frequency response, except on so far as it will make the bass tighter.

Obviously the more warped the record the grater the benefit. However really flat records are far and few between.

Yes there is a big benefit. On records that have a noise associated with the warp, the damper eliminates it.

I would say the cost of a damper is well worth it.

That sounds like a ringing endorsement-it's off to email my SME parts contact and place my order. Merry Christmas to me!