Denon AVP-A1HDCI / POA-A1HDCI Review Support Thread

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah - I left off all the ethernet numbers figuring they were not essential to the question and didn't feel like writing them all down.......

One last question: Have you been able to CHECK FOR FIRMWARE UPDATE via the GUI or WEBCONTROL to see if this is the latest firmware?

I am still having issues being able to do this so I haven't been able to confirm my firmware (and yours) is the latest available. This might help Gene in his quest to find out what is going on with his unit and the lack of bass. I think you can check for the firmware without actually updating (in case you might be concerned about loading a later firmware that might be problematic).

Well, I just tried and it says that firmware is AVAILABLE.

So I check my AVR-5308 which I just updated a few days ago.

The firmware numbers for 3 of them are HIGHER.

Main A1.87 ----> A1.88

Main ROMA1.87 ---> ROMA1.88

DSP1 36.6 ----> 36.61

Conclusion: our AVP-A1 does NOT have the latest firmware for those 3 items.

 

[WillH]

Well, I just tried and it says that firmware is AVAILABLE.

So I check my AVR-5308 which I just updated a few days ago.

The firmware numbers for 3 of them are HIGHER.

Main A1.87 ----> A1.88

Main ROMA1.87 ---> ROMA1.88

DSP1 36.6 ----> 36.61

Conclusion: our AVP-A1 does NOT have the latest firmware for those 3 items.

I wonder what firmware Gene has installed that is giving him problems? If it is the latter one, I guess we'll need to steer clear until Denon get's it resolved. I'd be a little leery of doing an update will no way to revert back.

 

[WillH]

Well, I just tried and it says that firmware is AVAILABLE.

So I check my AVR-5308 which I just updated a few days ago.

The firmware numbers for 3 of them are HIGHER.

Main A1.87 ----> A1.88

Main ROMA1.87 ---> ROMA1.88

DSP1 36.6 ----> 36.61

Conclusion: our AVP-A1 does NOT have the latest firmware for those 3 items.

BTW, feeling very jealous that you were able to check your firmware on your new unit while I have been unable to get my ethernet connection working for over 2 weeks now on my new unit, I sat down tonight determined to fix it and got it working with the help of the following link:

http://www.justanswer.com/questions/29943-have-a-new-denon-avr-4310ci-receiver-with-an-ethernet-port

I turned off DHCP and entered my configuration manually:
Using my laptop running on the same router, I wrote down the IP, subnet and gateway the laptop was using and I manually entered those same values but for the IP, but I added 50 to the number my laptop showed. For the DNS I used the same gateway number (I think this may have been what was causing the problem because under DHCP it wanted to assign this value as a number starting with 204.xxx.xxx.xxx for DNS 1 and 216.xxx.xxx.xxx for DNS 2

Once I did this, it worked first try.

I confirmed that there was a firmware update available (19 minutes) but will hold off updating for now.

I can now also use the internet radio.

Am a happy camper now - Everything working as it should.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

BTW, feeling very jealous that you were able to check your firmware on your new unit while I have been unable to get my ethernet connection working for over 2 weeks now on my new unit, I sat down tonight determined to fix it and got it working with the help of the following link:

http://www.justanswer.com/questions/29943-have-a-new-denon-avr-4310ci-receiver-with-an-ethernet-port

I turned off DHCP and entered my configuration manually:
Using my laptop running on the same router, I wrote down the IP, subnet and gateway the laptop was using and I manually entered those same values but for the IP, but I added 50 to the number my laptop showed. For the DNS I used the same gateway number (I think this may have been what was causing the problem because under DHCP it wanted to assign this value as a number starting with 204.xxx.xxx.xxx for DNS 1 and 216.xxx.xxx.xxx for DNS 2

Once I did this, it worked first try.

I confirmed that there was a firmware update available (19 minutes) but will hold off updating for now.

I can now also use the internet radio.

Am a happy camper now - Everything working as it should.

All I did was went into Network Setup. Without entering any key, I selected Connect. While it was hanging, I pressed the Menu key to get back out. Then when I got back to Newwork Setup, it automatically detected a WIRED connection and automatically set the DHCP and all that jazz by itself. That was it. I did this with both the AVR-5308 & AVP-A1.

I have not even tried internet radio.

Well, regarding the latest firmware, my 5308 has the latest firmware, but I don't see the issues with the lack of bass on SACD. However, I'm also using Denon Link 4th Edition.

Are you guys using Denon Link 4th edition?

In the mean time, I'm not updating my AVP-A1 either.

 

[WillH]

Well, regarding the latest firmware, my 5308 has the latest firmware, but I don't see the issues with the lack of bass on SACD. However, I'm also using Denon Link 4th Edition.

Are you guys using Denon Link 4th edition?

In the mean time, I'm not updating my AVP-A1 either.

It would seem that you and I may be the only 2 people on this thread anymore

I do have an email contact at Denon tech support and asked him about reports of bass loss with SACD with a recent firmware update and he said he didn't find it in his system; However, that doesn't mean much especially since there are not that many AVP users out there to begin with (compared to AVR users) and among the users, not that many would routinely update firmware and then also use DLink/HDMI for SACD. So the resulting group/database may be quite small. Clearly at least 2 people have this problem as reported in this thread.

May not update mine for awhile

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It would seem that you and I may be the only 2 people on this thread anymore

I do have an email contact at Denon tech support and asked him about reports of bass loss with SACD with a recent firmware update and he said he didn't find it in his system; However, that doesn't mean much especially since there are not that many AVP users out there to begin with (compared to AVR users) and among the users, not that many would routinely update firmware and then also use DLink/HDMI for SACD. So the resulting group/database may be quite small. Clearly at least 2 people have this problem as reported in this thread.

May not update mine for awhile

You know what they say...if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

I wanted the Denon Link 4 on my AVR-5308 and so I did the firmware.

But our new AVP-A1s already came with Denon Link 4, plus everything works perfectly (bass included), so why in the world would we want to change?

 

[bandphan]

You know what they say...if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

I wanted the Denon Link 4 on my AVR-5308 and so I did the firmware.

But our new AVP-A1s already came with Denon Link 4, plus everything works perfectly (bass included), so why in the world would we want to change?

enough of the prepro... SPEAKERS

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

enough of the prepro... SPEAKERS

I love talking about speakers, but it would have to be on the SPEAKERS thread.

If I live in an area that has all the speakers out there, I would be auditioning a pair of speakers every week.

 

[WillH]

You know what they say...if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

I wanted the Denon Link 4 on my AVR-5308 and so I did the firmware.

But our new AVP-A1s already came with Denon Link 4, plus everything works perfectly (bass included), so why in the world would we want to change?

Looks like our firmware version was October of 2009. The latest firmware is April 2010 and it only fixed issues with DTS-HD in 6.1 mode. I think I read there was some static coming from the back surrounds and the April firmware fixed that.

So, not necessary to update unless you use that mode and even then, beware of the potential bass issue as reported in this thread.

If it ain't broke don't fix it works for me too; However, I like "If it works fine now, don't break it" also

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Looks like our firmware version was October of 2009. The latest firmware is April 2010 and it only fixed issues with DTS-HD in 6.1 mode. I think I read there was some static coming from the back surrounds and the April firmware fixed that.

So, not necessary to update unless you use that mode and even then, beware of the potential bass issue as reported in this thread.

If it ain't broke don't fix it works for me too; However, I like "If it works fine now, don't break it" also

And if it works perfectly now, keep your damn hands away!

In this case, keep your damn firmware away!

 

[Bradh]

Gene and others, I have a question for you.

In Genes review of the AVP he talks about a 15 db gain using balanced, instead of the 6 db gain he usually see.

When I had my Paradigm Actives I ran balanced and seen a 6 db gain vs RCA. Now I have Definitive Mythos ST, and 10's which have a sensitivity of 93 db. Which gives me -5 to -6 db after running audyssey, with the B&K 200.7, using RCA connection. The amp has a problem with one of the channels and the retailer is taking it back since B&K is out of business. I am going to exchange it for a Parasound Halo A52 and A23 combo.

My questions are, since the AVP and Halo are both true balanced designs, will I notice a difference using balanced (sonically). In Halo review here, he stated the amp sounded better using balanced. Late will I be able to achieve ref - levels with my speakers, already being (-5 to -6 db unbalanced) using balanced. There is a gain control on the Halo amps which could help.

Thanks in advance.

Brad

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Gene and others, I have a question for you.

In Genes review of the AVP he talks about a 15 db gain using balanced, instead of the 6 db gain he usually see.

When I had my Paradigm Actives I ran balanced and seen a 6 db gain vs RCA. Now I have Definitive Mythos ST, and 10's which have a sensitivity of 93 db. Which gives me -5 to -6 db after running audyssey, with the B&K 200.7, using RCA connection. The amp has a problem with one of the channels and the retailer is taking it back since B&K is out of business. I am going to exchange it for a Parasound Halo A52 and A23 combo.

My questions are, since the AVP and Halo are both true balanced designs, will I notice a difference using balanced (sonically). In Halo review here, he stated the amp sounded better using balanced. Late will I be able to achieve ref - levels with my speakers, already being (-5 to -6 db unbalanced) using balanced. There is a gain control on the Halo amps which could help.

Thanks in advance.

Brad

This is from the review:

"I measured about 15.5dB of gain via the balanced and unbalanced outputs of the AVP-A1HDCI preamp".

Doesn't this mean that the GAIN is the SAME for both balanced & unbalanced outputs (15.5dB)?

The review continues:

I personally wished Denon would have followed a more common gain structure in this processor like I’ve seen on other A/V products as follows:
• Unbalanced: Av = 17dB
• Balanced: AV = 23dB (6 dB higher than unbalanced)

So instead of a gain of 15.5dB on BOTH the XLR & RCA outputs, Gene wished that it were 17dB for the RCA and 23dB for the XLR.

That is what I'm reading.

 

[Bradh]

This is from the review:

"I measured about 15.5dB of gain via the balanced and unbalanced outputs of the AVP-A1HDCI preamp".

Doesn't this mean that the GAIN is the SAME for both balanced & unbalanced outputs (15.5dB)?

The review continues:

I personally wished Denon would have followed a more common gain structure in this processor like I’ve seen on other A/V products as follows:
• Unbalanced: Av = 17dB
• Balanced: AV = 23dB (6 dB higher than unbalanced)

So instead of a gain of 15.5dB on BOTH the XLR & RCA outputs, Gene wished that it were 17dB for the RCA and 23dB for the XLR.

That is what I'm reading.

I had read it over a year ago before I bought my AVP. Last night I read it again, and it was late. I see it now. I still wonder what Gene thinks about me being able to balance my levels. With my previous setup there was about a 6 db gain when using balanced out of the AVP to the Paradigm actives.

Brad

 

[gene]

I had read it over a year ago before I bought my AVP. Last night I read it again, and it was late. I see it now. I still wonder what Gene thinks about me being able to balance my levels. With my previous setup there was about a 6 db gain when using balanced out of the AVP to the Paradigm actives.

Brad

hmm. maybe they addressed my concerns via a firmware update. Next time I drag my test gear into the Theater room, I will re-measure it.

 

[Bradh]

hmm. maybe they addressed my concerns via a firmware update. Next time I drag my test gear into the Theater room, I will re-measure it.

Does this brings up a question, was the Paradigm Active's a true balanced input?

So if I hookup the Halos using balanced and there is a gain of 6 db or so. Will using the Halo's gain control effect anything. I believe the manual states it should be at max which is THX. I am assuming it would be fine. It worked with the actives.


Brad

 

[gene]

Brad;

In the Pro world, Preamps are usually 6dB hotter on the balanced outputs compared to unbalanced and power amps are usually 6dB hotter on unbalanced vs balanced inputs. That way if you use unbalanced or balanced connections, the net result should be the same only the balanced gives you better noise immunity.

Consumer audio is all over the map as most manufacturers don't adhere to any specific standards for gain, unless they are THX certified, which the Denon is. That makes me wonder how it got THX certification now that you bring it up since they are very specific about that. You just opened a Pandora's box

I will revisit this when Denon sends me an updated AVP next year with all the new bells and whistles.

 

[Bradh]

Brad;

In the Pro world, Preamps are usually 6dB hotter on the balanced outputs compared to unbalanced and power amps are usually 6dB hotter on unbalanced vs balanced inputs. That way if you use unbalanced or balanced connections, the net result should be the same only the balanced gives you better noise immunity.

Consumer audio is all over the map as most manufacturers don't adhere to any specific standards for gain, unless they are THX certified, which the Denon is. That makes me wonder how it got THX certification now that you bring it up since they are very specific about that. You just opened a Pandora's box

I will revisit this when Denon sends me an updated AVP next year with all the new bells and whistles.

Gene

You wouldnt let us in on the new updated AVP would you . Or maybe a few hints

I still have the B&K amp. I will hook it XLR tonight and see what gain I get.

So with both the AVP and Parasound Halo's being THX ultra 2 cerified, using balanced shouldnt change the level of the speakers if they both followed THX certification. Is this correct.

I notice in your reviews which are great and very informative, you seem to prefer balanced. Besides the lower noise you get with balanced do you notice a big difference in sound quality. I know its some what subjuctive, but I would like to know what your thoughts are.

I will report back after I check the B&K tonight.

Brad

 

[gene]

Gene

You wouldnt let us in on the new updated AVP would you . Or maybe a few hints

I still have the B&K amp. I will hook it XLR tonight and see what gain I get.

So with both the AVP and Parasound Halo's being THX ultra 2 cerified, using balanced shouldnt change the level of the speakers if they both followed THX certification. Is this correct.

I notice in your reviews which are great and very informative, you seem to prefer balanced. Besides the lower noise you get with balanced do you notice a big difference in sound quality. I know its some what subjuctive, but I would like to know what your thoughts are.

If two different preamps both have THX certification, then theoretically their gain structures should be the same. Theory almost never is reality in consumer audio though....

I will report back after I check the B&K tonight.

Brad

That's a good idea to check with your B&K amp to see if level changes. However without measuring your B&K , we aren't sure what its unbalanced/balanced gain structure is unless it specifies it in the manual.

I always prefer balanced b/c its less problematic and you usually get a lower noisefloor.

 

[Bradh]

That's a good idea to check with your B&K amp to see if level changes. However without measuring your B&K , we aren't sure what its unbalanced/balanced gain structure is unless it specifies it in the manual.

I always prefer balanced b/c its less problematic and you usually get a lower noisefloor.

Here are the specs. from the manual.


REFERENCE 200.5 S2 & REFERENCE 200.7 S2
*AV - Amplified Voltage
Power Rating: 8Ω 200.5 / 200.7
Power Rating: 4Ω 200.5 / 200.7
200 watts / 200 watts
375 watts / 375 watts
Number of Channels 5 / 7
Current (peak to peak) 75 Amps
Dynamic Headroom 1.2 dB
Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) 0.09 %
Signal to Noise (S/N) 95 dB
Input Impedance 33.2 kΩ
Damping Factor (50 Hz) 450
Frequency Response 5 Hz - 45 kHz
Slew Rate 14 V / μsec
Input Sensitivity RCA Unbalanced 1.4 Volt
Input Sensitivity XLR Balanced 2.8 Volts | Pin 1 = Gnd, Pin 2 = In +, Pin 3 = In -
Gain 28.3AV* or 28dB
Line Voltage 120 / 220 / 240 VAC (optional / switchable)
AC Level Controls No
Binding Post Maximum Wire Gauge 4 AWG
Balanced Inputs Yes
Control Input 5 - 24 VDC
Control Output 10 - 12VDC 200mA
Dimensions in Inches Width
(Cutout Dimensions) Height
Depth
17.00 (17.12)
7.50 (7.62)
19.5 (20.62)
Shipping Weight 200.5 / 200.7 74 lbs / 76 lbs
Power Consumption
1830 watts max
17.5 Amps max current draw
130 watts @ no input
Replacement Fuses
AC Line - 15 Amp / 250 Volt Slow Blow
Rails: - 6 Amp / 250V Time Lag
Speakers - 6 Amp / 250 Volt Slow Blow
In Rush - 2 Amp / 250 Slow Blow

What about the AVP update

Brad

 

[gene]

Input Sensitivity RCA Unbalanced 1.4 Volt
Input Sensitivity XLR Balanced 2.8 Volts | Pin 1 = Gnd, Pin 2 = In +, Pin 3 = In -

There is a 6dB diff in input sensitivity but they only specify voltage gain once which we aren't sure if its for balanced or unbalanced. I believe they are following the 6dB convention I mentioned but you could always call them to ask.