Vinyl News

[Affejunge]

Rega has a replacement for the dreadful P1 entry level turntable. The new RP1 one should be a marked improvement eliminating teh speed issues that plagued earlier P1s with out of round MDF platters. This new platter is acrylic. There's a new tonearm and better bearings for the motor.

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/rega_readies_rp1_turntable/C157

Okay, not to sound like the dummy here, but what made the P1 "dreadful"

I have one I listen to almost every day. While I am aware of some of its shortcomings (still has sibilance even though cart is almost 2 years old, musical background is not that well defined, slight distortion on higher frequencies (though this has gotten better as it has broken in))

But for the price, it still sounds great. I always prefer to listen to it then any digital music.

 

[3db]

Okay, not to sound like the dummy here, but what made the P1 "dreadful"

I have one I listen to almost every day. While I am aware of some of its shortcomings (still has sibilance even though cart is almost 2 years old, musical background is not that well defined, slight distortion on higher frequencies (though this has gotten better as it has broken in))

But for the price, it still sounds great. I always prefer to listen to it then any digital music.

It was the MDF platter being out of round that plagued the P1. It caused the speed issue reported in Stereophile when the P1 first came out.

 

[Affejunge]

It was the MDF platter being out of round that plagued the P1. It caused the speed issue reported in Stereophile when the P1 first came out.

Well, I'll be damned.. you are right. It's funny this came up now. I was just looking at a record playing a few days ago and thought, "isn't that weird? It looks like the tracks are rocking back and forth."

I assumed it was a bad record pressing and though nothing of it. Now, reading your comment, I took the felt off and let the player spin, sure enough, the platter is out of round. "Okay," I though, "just because the platter is not totally round, does not mean it will effect record playback at all."

So I put a record on an tested to see if it was out of round. It was, by the exact same amount! So were the other 3 I tested.

Guess I know what my new system upgrade will be.

Any recommendations for a good platter?

 

[TLS Guy]

Well, I'll be damned.. you are right. It's funny this came up now. I was just looking at a record playing a few days ago and thought, "isn't that weird? It looks like the tracks are rocking back and forth."

I assumed it was a bad record pressing and though nothing of it. Now, reading your comment, I took the felt off and let the player spin, sure enough, the platter is out of round. "Okay," I though, "just because the platter is not totally round, does not mean it will effect record playback at all."

So I put a record on an tested to see if it was out of round. It was, by the exact same amount! So were the other 3 I tested.

Guess I know what my new system upgrade will be.

Any recommendations for a good platter?

Of course it will affect the sound. It will introduce wow and if you can see the tracks going back and forth, lots of it. You must be totally pitch deaf not to notice that!

If you think that sounds better than a CD you must have a strange point of reference.

Needle Doctor has this turntable on close out, in the White color.


This is an unbeatable value, and I would jump on it right now.

Get it with this cartridge.

Get that rig and you won't be stunned at how good your vinyl will sound.

 

[3db]

Well, I'll be damned.. you are right. It's funny this came up now. I was just looking at a record playing a few days ago and thought, "isn't that weird? It looks like the tracks are rocking back and forth."

I assumed it was a bad record pressing and though nothing of it. Now, reading your comment, I took the felt off and let the player spin, sure enough, the platter is out of round. "Okay," I though, "just because the platter is not totally round, does not mean it will effect record playback at all."

So I put a record on an tested to see if it was out of round. It was, by the exact same amount! So were the other 3 I tested.

Guess I know what my new system upgrade will be.

Any recommendations for a good platter?

The replacement for the P1 seems to be a much better table. I own a ProJect XpressionII which is the next level up from The Debut that TLS mentioned. (Sorry TLS.. II didn't have the budget for Sure Cartridge as they were selling it for $135 at the store I bought the turntable from. So I went ahead with Ortofon Red) .

The repalcement now is the ProJect Xpression III which would be on par with the Rega P2. Although the Debut is an excellent turntable, its tonearm is not full adjustable meaning that you maybe limited in your cartridge choice.

 

[Alex2507]

The Best of Black Sabbath

The # on my copy is 03140. It's my first Black Sabbath album. I was gonna post this in 'what are you listening to now?' but this is more about a tres cool vinyl score ($25) than about what I'm listening to ATM.

Incredibly cool score ... I rock!

 

[Affejunge]

Of course it will affect the sound. It will introduce wow and if you can see the tracks going back and forth, lots of it. You must be totally pitch deaf not to notice that!

Wow..umm thanks.

Listening closely I still have not noticed any pitch issues. There is no wobbliness (is that word?) and the music is solid. As for the tracks going back and forth, I may have overstated it. It is slight and only shows up on some records. I have never noticed the stylus being pushed in any direction (right or left).
Like I said, I did notice it was out of round, but it was about a 0.5mm fluctuation. (still more than I would like)

The only real issue I have with my current rig, is on some records there is severe distortion mostly on the right channel and less so on the left as the needle moves toward the center. Makes my speaker sound like a construction paper horn.

The anti-skating adjustment helps a bit, but seriously, some records are almost unlistenable toward the center.
Yet other records sound great all the way through.

Needle Doctor has this turntable on close out, in the White color.


This is an unbeatable value, and I would jump on it right now.

Get it with this cartridge.

Get that rig and you won't be stunned at how good your vinyl will sound.

Sounds good, but I really do not have the budget for it right now.

What can I do to improve my current P1? New platter, cartridge, and/or tone arm?

Everything is stock except the cartridge has a new stylus (a replacement).

 

[TLS Guy]

Wow..umm thanks.

Listening closely I still have not noticed any pitch issues. There is no wobbliness (is that word?) and the music is solid. As for the tracks going back and forth, I may have overstated it. It is slight and only shows up on some records. I have never noticed the stylus being pushed in any direction (right or left).
Like I said, I did notice it was out of round, but it was about a 0.5mm fluctuation. (still more than I would like)

The only real issue I have with my current rig, is on some records there is severe distortion mostly on the right channel and less so on the left as the needle moves toward the center. Makes my speaker sound like a construction paper horn.

The anti-skating adjustment helps a bit, but seriously, some records are almost unlistenable toward the center.
Yet other records sound great all the way through.



Sounds good, but I really do not have the budget for it right now.

What can I do to improve my current P1? New platter, cartridge, and/or tone arm?

Everything is stock except the cartridge has a new stylus (a replacement).

I would put your turntable up for sale and put the funds to a new rig. You can purchase the Shure cartridge now, and put it on your new turntable later.

 

[Affejunge]

I would put your turntable up for sale and put the funds to a new rig. You can purchase the Shure cartridge now, and put it on your new turntable later.

Sounds like a plan. I assume you mean the Shure cart you posted in your previous post. Very affordable.

Do believe that will help with the distortion issues I am having?
Will it help with sibilance? (I still slightly have it )

Thanks again.

 

[TLS Guy]

Sounds like a plan. I assume you mean the Shure cart you posted in your previous post. Very affordable.

Do believe that will help with the distortion issues I am having?
Will it help with sibilance? (I still slightly have it )

Thanks again.

If you align it properly, then yes.

 

[Stripes]

Im planning on pulling the trigger on a turntable, I have narrowed it down to purchacing the Audio Technica AT-PL60 from amazon. I am worried though that because Im buying something cheap Im going to basically get the sound that I payed for. It scares me because I have never heard vinyl before and really have no clue what to base the sound on except to compare it to a CD. Im worried that buying something this cheap is not going to sound that great and turn me off to vinyl, and even though its under $100 I really dont want to waste the money if its going to sound like crap.

I guess what I'm trying to say is should someone in my situation just stick to CD's? Or will this TT keep me content and start me off on the right foot to getting into the vinyl hobby?

Thanks, Josh

 

[3db]

Im planning on pulling the trigger on a turntable, I have narrowed it down to purchacing the Audio Technica AT-PL60 from amazon. I am worried though that because Im buying something cheap Im going to basically get the sound that I payed for. It scares me because I have never heard vinyl before and really have no clue what to base the sound on except to compare it to a CD. Im worried that buying something this cheap is not going to sound that great and turn me off to vinyl, and even though its under $100 I really dont want to waste the money if its going to sound like crap.

I guess what I'm trying to say is should someone in my situation just stick to CD's? Or will this TT keep me content and start me off on the right foot to getting into the vinyl hobby?

Thanks, Josh

If you can up your budget by another $250, I would suggest looking at the entry level tables from ProJect, Rega, and Music Hall.
http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=essential&cat=turntables&lang=en

http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=debut&cat=turntables&lang=en

http://www.rega.co.uk/index2.htm


http://www.musichallaudio.com/detail.php?p=2


I looked at the specs of that Audio Technica and the signal to noise ratio is poor at best at a -50db. This means that you maybe able to hear turntable rumble, and lots of record noise. The cartridge on that table is very poor as well and it will not track very well which means you would be missing alot of the music from the vinyl format.

What I would do is find a friend who already has a decent set-up and listen to it to se if you like it. If you don't have a friend with a table set-up, go to an audio store an ask them to play a few records to see if you like the sound. You may or may not like it but at least you'll have a better appreciation of what you are heading into. Also, while auditioning, try and lsiten to entry level stuff as this how you are going to enter this world if you choose to go with vinyl.

The other route is to buy a used turntable off of of EBAY but that can be tricky because you don't know how its been treated. Turntables and speakers are the only links in teh audio chain where it pays to spend a little more because you'll hear the benefits more readily than with amps or cd players. .

 

[3db]

The # on my copy is 03140. It's my first Black Sabbath album. I was gonna post this in 'what are you listening to now?' but this is more about a tres cool vinyl score ($25) than about what I'm listening to ATM.

Incredibly cool score ... I rock!

Rates really high on the ole cooly meter!! Thanks Alex!!

 

[Stripes]

If you can up your budget by another $250, I would suggest looking at the entry level tables from ProJect, Rega, and Music Hall.
http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=essential&cat=turntables&lang=en

http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=debut&cat=turntables&lang=en

http://www.rega.co.uk/index2.htm


http://www.musichallaudio.com/detail.php?p=2


I looked at the specs of that Audio Technica and the signal to noise ratio is poor at best at a -50db. This means that you maybe able to hear turntable rumble, and lots of record noise. The cartridge on that table is very poor as well and it will not track very well which means you would be missing alot of the music from the vinyl format.

What I would do is find a friend who already has a decent set-up and listen to it to se if you like it. If you don't have a friend with a table set-up, go to an audio store an ask them to play a few records to see if you like the sound. You may or may not like it but at least you'll have a better appreciation of what you are heading into. Also, while auditioning, try and lsiten to entry level stuff as this how you are going to enter this world if you choose to go with vinyl.

The other route is to buy a used turntable off of of EBAY but that can be tricky because you don't know how its been treated. Turntables and speakers are the only links in teh audio chain where it pays to spend a little more because you'll hear the benefits more readily than with amps or cd players. .

Well thats not what I wanted to hear but its what I expected, I cant go over $100 so I guess Im out of luck. I found these on craigslist, would any of these be better than the AT?

Realistic Lab-1500 for $60
Technics sl-b3 that needs a cartridge for $25
Stanton t50 for $90

 

[3db]

Well thats not what I wanted to hear but its what I expected, I cant go over $100 so I guess Im out of luck. I found these on craigslist, would any of these be better than the AT?

Realistic Lab-1500 for $60
Technics sl-b3 that needs a cartridge for $25
Stanton t50 for $90

Doing some google seaches, my choice of those three would be the Technics sl-b3. The Realistic is a linear tracking machine and I'm guessing that cartridges for this machine is hard to come by. The Stanton looks cheap.

TLSGuy would be the guy to ask about used tables. I would also check out pawn shops or used audio shops. Old Denons, Pioneers, Sony are good. Try and stick with manual tables because the part of teh cost used to design/build a turntable go into the automation. That money can be better served on the tone arm, the motor, etc.

Here's an awesome link detailing all the vintage Technics turntables:
http://www.stereomanuals.com/vintagetechnics/turntables/index.htm

 

[TLS Guy]

Well thats not what I wanted to hear but its what I expected, I cant go over $100 so I guess Im out of luck. I found these on craigslist, would any of these be better than the AT?

Realistic Lab-1500 for $60
Technics sl-b3 that needs a cartridge for $25
Stanton t50 for $90

The Technics sl-b3 will make a nice starter Turntable, for you.

I would order this cartridge, then you should come out around budget.

 

[Stripes]

Thanks, I'm going to hold out and save up for the Rega. I think it will be a B-Day gift for myself.

 

[3db]

Thanks, I'm going to hold out and save up for the Rega. I think it will be a B-Day gift for myself.

If its the Rega P1, you are far better off with a ProJect Debut. The Rega P1 whose platters were/are manufactured out of MDF were out of round causing speed variations. If its the replacement for the P1, you'll be fine. The ProJect Debut is a better table than the older P1. The place that sold memy ProJect had both in stock but steered me away from the P1 because of their problems.

 

[Affejunge]

You can purchase the Shure cartridge now, and put it on your new turntable later.

So I went with TLS Guy's advice and purchased the new cartridge. It came in Friday so I postponed Friday Night martinis and installed the cartridge. I figured I would want all coordination and dexterity to install this thing.

I must admit, when I first ordered the cartridge I had a little buyers remorse. Would this be another audio "upgrade" I rushed out to buy and install in my system, only to have minimal effects at best. Read on and find out.

As covered in many other reviews, the cart arrived in an aluminum box with the cart, mounting hardware, screwdriver (nice touch), protractor and brush (whew). I removed the old Ortofon 5e from the Rega P-1 tonearm and installed the M97xE. One issue, I found the screws that came with the M97xE to be really short. I really could not get them threaded with my fat fingers, so I went back to using the screws from the 05e. (I did notice later, AFTER my M97xE was mounted, aligned, and balanced, that the M97xE installation manual states that if you have trouble mounting, you can always put the screws on "upside-down". Good idea, but I was not about to undo 40 mins of work to use different screws.)

So, about an hour after I opened the box, I was listening to some vinyl with a martini in hand. Two things I noticed right away: first, the soundstage did not seem as wide as the Ortofon, second, and surprising considering some reviews of this cart, the bass response was *much* tighter. The Ortofon could "go low" with bass, but it was always a little sloppy, the response on the Shure is really tight. An electric guitar A or E, really sounds like a guitar now with that nice roll off from the vibration of the string.

Bass response alone has made this worth the price of admission. Now for some more critical listening. It seems the noise floor has really dropped. Not that it was "noisy" before. With my phone-pre, pre-amp, and amp, I have no hiss or hum, so there was no "noise" with the Ortofon, but it seems more dynamic now.

Sibilance is not as pronounced on vocals as with the 05e, but it seems a little less detailed. The lack of "detail" is not a bad thing. Previously, with the Ortofon, vocals often sounded strained, and sometime, shrill. I have not experienced this with the Shure.

Furthermore, there seems to be almost no audible "clicks" or "pops" from surface debris. Maybe it is because my records are getting cleaner, maybe it is because of the little stabilizer with brush on the front of the cart (yes, I have it down). I don't know, but I don't hear them as much anymore.

Lastly, and I am fully willing to admit this is psychological, playback seems quicker. I don't know how to explain it. If before, playback was a trickling stream, it is now a swift moving, still, river. Maybe it is the drop in the noise floor? I don't know. But is just seems faster. (of course the pitch is not higher, the record is not playing faster) I really cannot explain it. I am sure it is in my head.

So, in closing, this little investment has fixed about 3 things I did not like about the Ortofon and has made me hear another shortcoming with the 05e, the lack of control on bass. Subtle advancement to be sure, (my wife hears no difference and thinks I am insane) but the difference is audible to me. All I have seemed to have lost is a wider sound stage. A trade off I am very willing to make.

TLS Guy knows his stuff. Now, I wonder what he thinks of the Rega P-2 I have been eying?

 

[3db]

Rega P2 or ProJect XpressionIII both equals. Can't gp wrong with either choice.


I recently upgraded to the Ortofon 2M Red for additional 50 bucks over the Ortofon OM10 stylus I had and noticed a quieter background with less record noise coming in but still giving me the treble and a tighter bass response.