Looking for Towers for my Living room

[3db]

Not shocked at all...that you didn't mention the room size, the speaker placements, how the levels were matched, what material was used...or any other of the actual questions I asked...


Btw, the PSB's aren't anywhere near as "linear" (measurable..really real world) as the 362's...and the model you linked for the "rave review" was significantly less sensitive (measurable..really real world)...one of the harbingers of ..."dynamics"

It was audio dealer's show room so I have no clue about room sizes or materials used.

Check your graphs again. Looks like they are very close in sensitivity.

1w (2.83V) @ 1m, IEC-filtered Pink Noise, C-weighted
Anechoic Chamber 89dB
Typical Listening Room 91dB


PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS
General
Frequency Response (±3dB) 38Hz - 20kHz
Recommended Power Amplifier Range 10 - 200 watts
Sensitivity (2.83V @ 1m) 93dB
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Crossover Frequency(ies) 350Hz, 3,300Hz; 24dB/octave
Low-Frequency Driver Dual 6-1/2" (165mm) MMD®
Midrange Driver 4" (100mm) MMD®
High-Frequency Driver 3/4" (19mm) MMD®
Dimensions
(H x W x D) 39-1/4" x 8-1/4" x 13"
(997mm x 208mm x 330mm)
Weight 48.5 lb (22kg)
Finish Black Wood-Grain Enclosure

 

[AJinFLA]

It was audio dealer's show room so I have no clue about room sizes or materials used....

...or where they were placed (which affects imaging, bass, etc, etc, etc.) and how they were level matched (which makes all the difference in the world), etc, etc.
Ok.
But at least now we know the basis of how your opinion was formed.

Check your graphs again. Looks like they are very close in sensitivity.

Check your dictionary again, for "graph" and "specifications".

Take a look at PSB T6 . They've been garnering rave rewiews.
http://www.soundstage.com/equipment/psb_image_t6.htm

From your link, the measured data which checks the claimed specification.

The Infinity (the 360 and 362 differ only cosmetically per Sean/Harman).

Hopefully this helps you understand the difference between measured data and specifications now.
If you stick with your purely subjective preference of the PSB's, due to yellow cones, rave reviews, etc. etc. or whatever you prefer, you're fine.
No arguments, nothing to argue about pure subjectivism.
If you try to link objective reasons for those subjective preferences...you're argument falls apart.

 

[3db]

...or where they were placed (which affects imaging, bass, etc, etc, etc.) and how they were level matched (which makes all the difference in the world), etc, etc.
Ok.
But at least now we know the basis of how your opinion was formed.


Check your dictionary again, for "graph" and "specifications".



From your link, the measured data which checks the claimed specification.

The Infinity (the 360 and 362 differ only cosmetically per Sean/Harman).

Hopefully this helps you understand the difference between measured data and specifications now.
If you stick with your purely subjective preference of the PSB's, due to yellow cones, rave reviews, etc. etc. or whatever you prefer, you're fine.
No arguments, nothing to argue about pure subjectivism.
If you try to link objective reasons for those subjective preferences...you're argument falls apart.

And soundstage measure them in anoechic chamber....where sensitivity is going to be lower. Were the 362 also measured in anoechic chamber?

If you think I choose the PSBs over the Infinity's becuase of cone colour, than you're saddenly mistaken and insulting as hell. But I won't stoop down your snide levels. I know what I've heard and the PSB was clearly the better speaker. But hey think what you like.

 

[GO-NAD!]

...or where they were placed (which affects imaging, bass, etc, etc, etc.) and how they were level matched (which makes all the difference in the world), etc, etc.
Ok.
But at least now we know the basis of how your opinion was formed.


Check your dictionary again, for "graph" and "specifications".



From your link, the measured data which checks the claimed specification.

The Infinity (the 360 and 362 differ only cosmetically per Sean/Harman).

Hopefully this helps you understand the difference between measured data and specifications now.
If you stick with your purely subjective preference of the PSB's, due to yellow cones, rave reviews, etc. etc. or whatever you prefer, you're fine.
No arguments, nothing to argue about pure subjectivism.
If you try to link objective reasons for those subjective preferences...you're argument falls apart.

OK! We get it! You're all about the specs and I can appreciate that. Could you possibly lighten up on the sarcasm?

 

[Alex2507]

If you think I choose the PSBs over the Infinity's becuase of cone colour, than you're sadly mistaken and insulting as hell.

Could you possibly lighten up on the sarcasm?

The Canadians form a tag team! Will AJinFLA be able to find a partner in the member rich Florida area or will he continue to go it alone hurling snide remark after insult until the Canuks get bored? Tune in in about 30 seconds because that's about as long as it's gonna take for a retort (I forgot the fancy word GO-NAD! uses).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The Canadians form a tag team! Will AJinFLA be able to find a partner in the member rich Florida area or will he continue to go it alone hurling snide remark after insult until the Canuks get bored? Tune in in about 30 seconds because that's about as long as it's gonna take for a retort (I forgot the fancy word GO-NAD! uses).

I'm from Krypton so I can't join the tag team.

But I'm not going against AJinFLA or Sean Olive & all the Harman International professors.

 

[Alex2507]

I'm from Krypton so I can't join the tag team.

But I'm not going against AJinFLA or Sean Olive & all the Harman International professors.

Sean Olive and AJ may say the same things but so far Sean hasn't offended 50% of the stereo owning population of the planet's second biggest country ... and in America he's only pissed off Seth and Chris. AJ on the other hand ... forgetaboutit.

 

[ohskigod]

...and the model you linked for the "rave review" was significantly less sensitive (measurable..really real world)...one of the harbingers of ..."dynamics"

I also wouldn't say a higher sensitivity means a better speaker from jumpstreet, though obviously it is easier to drive with lower powered amps. I have owned (and still own) speakers I have thoroughly enjoyed that I would bet have awful sensitivity ratings.

OK! We get it! You're all about the specs and I can appreciate that. Could you possibly lighten up on the sarcasm?

and take away the fun? cmon


I'll say this, the low cost of those Infinities and what seems to be a sensitivity rating in the low 90's is really making me curious how these would sound on some tube gear I got floating around. Who knows, after all the flogging, I might snag a pair down the road.

I may seem down on those Infinities from past posts, but don't think for a minute I'm not a whore for a big bang for buck product.

 

[3db]

I also wouldn't say a higher sensitivity means a better speaker from jumpstreet, though obviously it is easier to drive with lower powered amps. I have owned (and still own) speakers I have thoroughly enjoyed that I would bet have awful sensitivity ratings.





I'll say this, the low cost of those Infinities and what seems to be a sensitivity rating in the low 90's is really making me curious how these would sound on some tube gear I got floating around. Who knows, after all the flogging, I might snag a pair down the road.

I may seem down on those Infinities from past posts, but don't think for a minute I'm not a whore for a big bang for buck product.

I still haven't received an answer on how that senstivity was measured. Measuring senstivity in anoehoic chamber lowers the sensitivity readings from readings in real world room.

 

[AJinFLA]

And soundstage measure them in anoechic chamber....where sensitivity is going to be lower.

Wrong. That is the true sensitivity (>300hz). It is only below this where the room would affect the response. It's an apples to apples comparision, becuase the 362 was measured quasi-anechoic, using a gated MLS system...above 300hz.

Were the 362 also measured in anoechic chamber?

They don't have to be when you gate the measurement, because it ignores the room contribution. The LF data (<300Hz) is useless, so they splice the nearfield below 300hz.
Bottom line is that the methods are different, but yield the same result...and it is irrelevant that you don't like the result, but the PSB's are typical low sensitivity cone and dome boxes, the 362's significantly higher, as noted by Atkinson.
Did I mention staying away from objective reasons and sticking to pure subjectivism...and you'll be fine??

If you think I choose the PSBs over the Infinity's becuase of cone colour, than you're saddenly mistaken and insulting as hell.

If you could take a break from the woe is me/play the victim card...and actually try to understand how looks can affect what you "heard", then you may understand that it isn't such as "insult" to suggest this can play a role

I know what I've heard and the PSB was clearly the better speaker. But hey think what you like.

Well, you can't remember the room, the placement, the material and the levels, so maybe the 362's actually sounded better to you....but you just forgot that as well

OK! We get it! You're all about the specs....

 

[AJinFLA]

I'll say this, the low cost of those Infinities and what seems to be a sensitivity rating in the low 90's is really making me curious how these would sound on some tube gear I got floating around.

If it is a well engineered tube amp, it should drive them with aplomb, despite the complex impedance.
If it's one of those silly 2 watt, zero-NFB, high output impedance SET's.....

 

[GO-NAD!]

I'm from Krypton so I can't join the tag team.

But I'm not going against AJinFLA or Sean Olive & all the Harman International professors.

I'm certainly not against what AJinFLA or Sean Olive have to say. I support objective judgements over subjective ones. I've never heard the Infinitys or the PSBs, so I'm not going to express an opinion on either. What I'm saying is that the contempt AJ expresses in his posts is completely unnecessary. Sean is able to make similar points while remaining inoffensive. Must be the Canadian in him.....

 

[3db]

Wrong. That is the true sensitivity (>300hz). It is only below this where the room would affect the response. It's an apples to apples comparision, becuase the 362 was measured quasi-anechoic, using a gated MLS system...above 300hz.
They don't have to be when you gate the measurement, because it ignores the room contribution. The LF data (<300Hz) is useless, so they splice the nearfield below 300hz.
Bottom line is that the methods are different, but yield the same result...and it is irrelevant that you don't like the result, but the PSB's are typical low sensitivity cone and dome boxes, the 362's significantly higher, as noted by Atkinson.
Did I mention staying away from objective reasons and sticking to pure subjectivism...and you'll be fine??


If you could take a break from the woe is me/play the victim card...and actually try to understand how looks can affect what you "heard", then you may understand that it isn't such as "insult" to suggest this can play a role

Well, you can't remember the room, the placement, the material and the levels, so maybe the 362's actually sounded better to you....but you just forgot that as well

Alrighty captain ....as it appears that you know my memory better than mine. The room was a typically show room found in audio dealer. Carpeted floors away from windows but i didn't see any acoustic treatments. The speakers were driven from the same NAD receiver with the same source in the same room standing next to one another and the PSBs still offered much better control in their dynamics then did the Infinities..despite having a lower senstivity. Furthermore, the mids were much better on the PSBs and the bass was definetaly more abundant and also tightly controlled. The treble seemd on par but hey, the PSBs were at a disadvantage because of their lower sensitivity making them appear to play less loudy. I guess its those yellow cones after all.

 

[ohskigod]

It's very odd how people's opinions of speakers can sometimes draw hostility. Heck, I dared to mention that my opinion was that Polk did't suck and I got hamerred for having an "brand bias" which given some of the coments from the people I think gave that feedback is downright hilarious.

basically, thanks to them, I will have red chicklets in my profile forever. thats ok, I like red. it's an awesome color....such an eye catcher

anywhoo, I will maintain that people are allowed to like speakers better than other speakers for reasons other than specs and charts. I used to be a spec guy, then many knowledgeable people in this hobby pointed the err of my ways, by making me listen and not caring about specs. after a while I got it.

you don't listen to numbers, you listen to music...or movies

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm a Spec-whore when it comes to electronics and speakers, but the sound quality has to be great too in the end.

If the specs were perfect, but the sound quality was bad, then I would not buy it either.

But when was the last time a component had perfect specs and sounded bad?

Now if a component had bad specs and sounded great, then I may still get it - unless it costs $23,000.

 

[AJinFLA]

Alrighty captain ....as it appears that you know my memory better than mine. The room was a typically show room found in audio dealer. Carpeted floors away from windows but i didn't see any acoustic treatments. The speakers were driven from the same NAD receiver with the same source in the same room standing next to one another and the PSBs still offered much better control in their dynamics then did the Infinities..despite having a lower senstivity. Furthermore, the mids were much better on the PSBs and the bass was definetaly more abundant and also tightly controlled. The treble seemd on par but hey, the PSBs were at a disadvantage because of their lower sensitivity making them appear to play less loudy. I guess its those yellow cones after all.

Glad I made your memory come back a bit.
See, sometimes my (different from Sean) methods are effective, despite all the

it causes .
Btw, do you remember where this dealership was? I got friends up there who may be interested in doing a similar comparison.
TIA.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Of course, all that's been mentioned about the P362 so far, is its wonderful FR. What about the cabinet? Is it well constructed? Is there any audible resonance? Will the feet fall off it, if somebody should drag it across a carpet? Will the grill fall apart, if you try to remove it? How's the power handling. Will it be happy at high volumes, without breaking up?

Those are questions I'd be seeking answers to if I were in the market. For the asking price, maybe I'd be quite forgiving of any such inadequacies

Based on that FR alone, it appears to be a great buy. But, FR is not the only thing to consider, even if we disregard appearances.

The PSB T6 may be a better speaker in those areas. I've only seen photos, so I can't answer that question.

 

[AJinFLA]

anywhoo, I will maintain that people are allowed to like speakers better than other speakers for reasons other than specs and charts.

Millions of Bose owners agree with you .
Plus there is an entire industry based on this belief..known as "high end" audio.
You can't "spec" or "chart" why these dots on the wall or jar of beans make things "better"....but they sure do when you just "listen" .

I used to be a spec guy, then many knowledgeable people in this hobby pointed the err of my ways, by making me listen and not caring about specs. after a while I got it.

"A man's got to know his limitations" - Clint E (teeth clenched)

you don't listen to numbers, you listen to music...or movies

So I'm guessing you use a TT and tape deck, no digital media players...or any music or movies recorded past the 80's???

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Of course, all that's been mentioned about the P362 so far, is its wonderful FR. What about the cabinet? Is it well constructed? Is there any audible resonance? Will the feet fall off it, if somebody should drag it across a carpet? Will the grill fall apart, if you try to remove it? How's the power handling. Will it be happy at high volumes, without breaking up?

Those are questions I'd be seeking answers to if I were in the market. For the asking price, maybe I'd be quite forgiving of any such inadequacies

Based on that FR alone, it appears to be a great buy. But, FR is not the only thing to consider, even if we disregard appearances.

The PSB T6 may be a better speaker in those areas. I've only seen photos, so I can't answer that question.

I can understand concerns of build quality & reliability.

But does cabinet resonance matter if the off-axis response is just as flat as the on-axis reponse?

For example, would you rather have speakers with [no cabinet resonance + bad off-axis response] or speakers with some [cabinet resonance + great off-axis response]?

If the cabinet resonance "colored" the sound (audible), wouldn't that adversely affect both the on-axis and off-axis response?

 

[AJinFLA]

But does cabinet resonance matter if the off-axis response is just as flat as the on-axis reponse?
For example, would you rather have speakers with [no cabinet resonance + bad off-axis response] or speakers with some [cabinet resonance + great off-axis response]?
If the cabinet resonance "colored" the sound (audible), wouldn't that adversely affect both the on-axis and off-axis response?

Since you are one of the few who actually seems interested in learning something/educating yourself, check this Gradient paper "Basis of Stereo", scroll down to the "Absolute listening test" and note the part about "delayed resonances" impact sitting at 3m in the reverberant field. Note what is of overriding importance (ps., it's not FR, like an preamp, is FR's...as in 3 dimensions).

I can understand concerns of build quality & reliability.

Feet breaking off during dragging and grills falling off??
That's Reducto Absurdum (contagious around here

)...not QC issues .

cheers,

AJ