New Receiver?

[SopRage]

Guys,

I posted recently in the General forum about distortion I get during sudden loud dialogue in movies, and one of the possible causes recommended was that my RX-V663 didn't have enough voltage headroom.

I'm not thrilled about having to buy another receiver, but the distortion is driving me mad. Any recommendations?

I'm using my RX-V663 as a pre-amp right now, so I'd need any possible replacements to have pre-outs. I'm leaning towards the Denon AVR-3310, which is for sale at around $750 on Amazon. I'm definitely open to suggestion, however.

Whatever the choice, it has to solve this distortion problem!!!

Thanks!

 

[markw]

You say you're only using your current receiver as a preamp.

If that's the case, buying a new receiver won't gain you anything.

If lack of power is your problem, a beefier power amp would be the next logical step. But it better be a big 'un if it's to make a discernable difference. Doubling the power only yeilds a megar 3 db of increase in headroom.

Unless it's your speakers not able to cleanly handle the power. Remember, a speaker may be rated as being able to handle so many watts (without smoking) but it may not sound so good doing it.

 

[SopRage]

No, it's not power, per say. I get the same distortion regardless of volume.

I've got pretty efficient speakers - 90 dB/w - being powered by 125+ watts from my Emotiva UPA-7, and again, the distortion's there whether I listen at -50 dB or -10 dB.

Another member said it had something to do with voltage headroom, which apparently happens before the amplifier ever touches the signal. I'm getting to be somewhat knowledgeable in this stuff, but that sort of spec is a whole other level than I know about.

He seemed to think a better receiver would use higher quality components and solve this problem. I hope so - more power, different speakers, thicker wire, EQ, and absorption panels haven't yet.

 

[markw]

Now I'm confused.

From your first post:

I posted recently in the General forum about distortion I get during sudden loud dialogue in movies...

And now you say:

I get the same distortion regardless of volume.

Which is it?

 

[Alex2507]

I bet he means that the distortion is audible when the content of the movie is suddenly loud regardless of the master volume that his rec'r is set to.

 

[SopRage]

I bet he means that the distortion is audible when the content of the movie is suddenly loud regardless of the master volume that his rec'r is set to.

Yes, absolutely. Trying to get rid of it!!!

Maddening!

 

[Alex2507]

The first thing to eliminate as a cause would be the center channel if it's dialog related.

Do you know how to do that?

 

[SopRage]

The first thing to eliminate as a cause would be the center channel if it's dialog related.

Do you know how to do that?

Yup.

I've heard it with my old HTM-200SE center and my new CMT-340SE center. I've also heard the distortion in the stereo mix when I listen to the same scenes so I don't think it's the center channel.

 

[Alex2507]

Yup.

I've heard it with my old HTM-200SE center and my new CMT-340SE center. I've also heard the distortion in the stereo mix when I listen to the same scenes so I don't think it's the center channel.

Then you know at least as much as I do. I'm interested to see what others say and the outcome.

 

[walter duque]

I would switch the speakers (for test purposes only). Use one of your LR speakers as your center and if you get get same results it's not your center. That would be either the AVR or could be the DVD player. Does it do he same when watching TV?

 

[markw]

In either case, it seems to be a malfunction.

The first place I'd look is where the signal is being decoded (The DAC). It sounds like it's pumping out too high a voltage for the analog stages to be able to handle.

If you can use the DAC in another unit, give it a try. That's to say if you are feeding a digital signal to the receiver (most do) but the source has MC analog outputs (some do) and the receiver has analog inputs (some do), that would be where I'd try first. Use the sources DAC.

Of course, if those options aren't possible, perhaps a two-channel analog output from the DVD into a high-level input on the receiver could help isolate the problem. If it goes away, you know there's a definite problem with the receiver's DAC overloading the analog sections. If not, well...

[edit] If you have a CD player with digital outs, you might want to try that with the receivers digital inputs. Since you say it even does it in stereo, if the problem goes away, it may be the DVD player, not the receiver.

Always try to isolate the problem before replacing things. You might save big $$$ that way.

 

[SopRage]

The first place I'd look is where the signal is being decoded (The DAC). It sounds like it's pumping out too high a voltage for the analog stages to be able to handle.

If you can use the DAC in another unit, give it a try. That's to say if you are feeding a digital signal to the receiver (most do) but the source has MC analog outputs (some do) and the receiver has analog inputs (some do), that would be where I'd try first. Use the sources DAC.

Of course, if those options aren't possible, perhaps a two-channel analog output from the DVD into a high-level input on the receiver could help isolate the problem. If it goes away, you know there's a definite problem with the receiver's DAC overloading the analog sections. If not, well...

[edit] If you have a CD player with digital outs, you might want to try that with the receivers digital inputs. Since you say it even does it in stereo, if the problem goes away, it may be the DVD player, not the receiver.

Always try to isolate the problem before replacing things. You might save big $$$ that way.

MarkW,

Thanks for the advice. However, both my Xbox 360 and Bluray player seem to have the same problem with movies (and a very few games).

 

[Rickster71]

This is sounding like you have a source output voltage mismatch with the input sensitivity of your amp.

 

[PENG]

It does not seem like headroom of the 663 is the root cause. Have you checked to see that the output of all 7 channels are balanced, using a SPL meter? If everything in the 663 is setup correctly and you are sure it is not the speaker and the sources, then your 663 may require repair. Just in case, check your interconnects (HDMI, optical, coax?) and speaker cables too.

 

[SopRage]

It does not seem like headroom of the 663 is the root cause. Have you checked to see that the output of all 7 channels are balanced, using a SPL meter? If everything in the 663 is setup correctly and you are sure it is not the speaker and the sources, then your 663 may require repair. Just in case, check your interconnects (HDMI, optical, coax?) and speaker cables too.

All my channels are matched using DVE and an SPL meter.

The problem is, I heard the same problem with two other budget receivers, one Pioneer and one Denon.

David Fabrikant seems to think it's just bad source material (he posted under my other thread in the General Discussions forum). He's very knowledgeable, and I don't doubt his expertise, I'm just amazed I don't hear anyone else talk about this problem.

At this point, it seems it must be either 1) artifacts in the source material or 2) a problem with budget receivers in general. I was hoping that getting a better receiver may solve the issue, but I'm not excited about the prospect of spending hundreds of dollars to find out.

 

[TLS Guy]

The trouble is you don't know which unit is running out of headroom.

I can tell you one thing any piece of budget equipment I have ever had on the bench generally does not have enough headroom on the inputs.

This spec is never quoted and seldom measured in reviews. For any receiver preamp or mixer, it is one of the most important specs.

My last Rotel unit was very close to the wind and occasionally not adequate.

When I got my Marantz 8003 back home that was the first thing I tested, and if it had not been adequate, it would have gone back.

I was in a friends home for a week in February, and he had a Pioneer Elite receiver. I forget the model, but as far as I was concerned it was absolute junk. Every time there was louder dynamics, it had the same problem you describe. It was gritty as all get out. The Paradigm speaker system did not help, which was plain awful.

So unfortunately you are like me and probably cursed with a keen ear.

 

[3db]

So unfortunately you are like me and probably cursed with a keen ear.

Dam I consider myself to be very fortunate to be deaf n dumb


Hey Alex!! Pass the popcorn...and hurry...this is the best part of the movie!!!

 

[Alex2507]

How do we know it's not the EMO amp?

 

[SopRage]

Had the same problem with the receiver before I added the amp.

In fact, I added the amp to try to HELP the problem.

 

[Alex2507]

Bummer. I guess you do have it narrowed down then. The 663 as I'm sure you know got a favorable review here at AH. Good things have been said about it's pre-amp capabilities too. This is the first time that I'm hearing about one having a problem. Now what?