Do not buy from an Audioholics member

[Tarub]

wow i can't believe WmAx is banned

That is NOT IMPRESSIVE at all.

 

[Matt34]

I like Chris and he has helped me many times but this is just crazy.

I agree completely and think he is a valuable member to this community but you have to draw the line in the sand somewhere, that includes long time members. If it wasn't Chris but instead some relatively new member that had dragged Randyb and others along like this I'm fairly certain he wouldn't have gotten the leniency the community has given him thus far.

 

[Matt34]

That is a good point. Certainly paying in full up front probably wasn't the best course of action. Perhaps a deposit or something could have been made.

What sucks is that without paying up front, however, the resources necessary to complete the project on Chris' end might not have been available. Catch 22.

Either way... I think since Chris has been banned until resolution, this thread should be locked up. While its his wrongdoing, its not fair to speculate and comment when he's not here own it. I can't even say "defend himself". He has no defense, but we should let it be.

I agree to an extent, keep the banter to a minimum. I'm going to forward Randy what email addresses and what not I have for Chris in-case he doesn't have them. Maybe Alex (the other one) can do the same.

Randyb can use this thread to keep us updated.

 

[majorloser]

I agree completely and think he is a valuable member to this community but you have to draw the line in the sand somewhere, that includes long time members. If it wasn't Chris but instead some relatively new member that had dragged Randyb and others along like this I'm fairly certain he wouldn't have gotten the leniency the community has given him thus far.

Agreed, showing a completed speaker or giving the customer (randy) something that shows considerable progress has been made would be warranted. Until then, I support Matt's decision to temporarily ban WmAx.

Hopefully something can be worked out quickly and a resolution to the situation can be reached.

 

[highfigh]

That's a valid point but those of us who have been on here along time should be able to trust each other. I know I have bought and sold a lot of things on here and I have shipped without payment as those whom I have purchased from have done too.

Is that smart?...not likely...but I trust the guys on here and many are good friends of mine even though I have never truly met them.

Did you ship $4-5K worth of anything without any payment? If a face-to-face has never happened, I'd be careful, even if a few years of online exchanges have taken place. It's definitely not the way I would like it to be, but the reality is that trust needs to be earned, not given too freely. It's also a matter of scale. If it's a low priced item, no biggie- I have done the same thing although, the last time I took the time to call a manufacturer and ship a car audio crossover, I never saw any kind of thanks, public or private.

I know how hard it is to meet a deadline when other things are happening and/or facilities aren't what I would really like. It was hard enough to admit it to myself that it wasn't going to happen but it can really hard to admit it to the person who's owed whatever it is. Nobody wants to say "I failed" but at some point, it's time to fish or cut bait.

Hopefully, this will be resolved to someone's satisfaction.

 

[highfigh]

That is a good point. Certainly paying in full up front probably wasn't the best course of action. Perhaps a deposit or something could have been made.

What sucks is that without paying up front, however, the resources necessary to complete the project on Chris' end might not have been available. Catch 22.

Either way... I think since Chris has been banned until resolution, this thread should be locked up. While its his wrongdoing, its not fair to speculate and comment when he's not here own it. I can't even say "defend himself". He has no defense, but we should let it be.

OTOH, if it's necessary to pay in full, up front, in order for the person to get the materials and equipment, it means they aren't making any money. I wouldn't do this kind of job for anyone without getting something out of it, unless my time/labor was a gift. I do fully understand getting enough of a downstroke to pay for the needed supplies and parts. Unless I'm absolutely positive that I'll be billing the person soon, I always get something before I start. It gets really messy, otherwise.

 

[mike c]

i consider chris a friend, but when i see him posting instead of in his garage doing the speakers ... i did mull doing the same (or at least suggesting) as matt. kudos to matt for having what i didn't.

 

[Warpdrv]

I'm sorry, I don't understand how his name shows up with a tag as "banned" but yet he is still posting here....


Did Randy ever get these speakers...?

It doesn't appear as he has, or I would think it would have been posted here no...?

 

[Matt34]

I'm sorry, I don't understand how his name shows up with a tag as "banned" but yet he is still posting here....


Did Randy ever get these speakers...?

It doesn't appear as he has, or I would think it would have been posted here no...?

?

It will still show him online but he cannot post.

 

[lsiberian]

Let's get those speakers done and move on with your life. I suggest sticking to designing builds rather than implementing them. It's far easier to have a cabinet builder fabricate the design than to DIY. CLD is very tough stuff to do and I suggest people avoid it except on Reference level setups. I'd also suggest you never buy a CLD speaker to be built unless it is already finished. I'm building one and can tell you that it is a ton of work. Good news is Chris doesn't have too much left to do on this.

 

[walter duque]

Why don't we let WmAx back on this forum and see what he has to say. I don't know him and don't have any dealings with him. This is a man that has had a lot of respect and he is beeing trashed by some respectfull members of this forum, it just seems so cold. Let's listend to what he has to say. At least give the man a chance to defent himself. Maybe he got in over his head, who knows>

 

[Highlander]

Chris has contated me and promised regular updates which is all I need.

Just a word...I own a construction company and it has been my experience if you tell someone they'll get weekly updates, it's best to shoot them a call no matter what, especially if you got money up front. This has kept me out of the dog house on many occasions.

The second post above reminds me of something my previous employer often stressed; if a project goes over budget the Client may be unhappy but will generally pay fair and reasonable additional costs. However, if there's one thing all Clients hate, it's a project running behind programme. Not being kept up to date with progress, even if it is a lack of progress, is also a recipe for disaster.

A gentle lesson for you here Chris

 

[Warpdrv]

?

It will still show him online but he cannot post.

Oh my bad, I was just seeing how long this thread has been in service and I thought the ban was a long time ago, guess it was just today....

I know Randy is a good guy and has sold me a CC from his lengthy product history.... I hope Chris gets his speakers out soon for as long as he's been waiting....

I can completely understand his frustration, as I am in a similar predicament. I ordered Boxes for my next sub upgrade, but they also have not been delivered upon and they were ordered a while ago. Not as long as this case, but it is very frustrating.... I am confident they will be delivered, likely before Randy's speakers but I feel the same deprived sense.... Money output and no delivery - its hard to stay collected in these circumstances...

 

[lsiberian]

The lesson learned here is to never underestimate yourself.

 

[Highlander]

The lesson learned here is to never underestimate yourself.

We all make mistakes. This will have been a harsh lesson for Chris, but ultimately it's a mistake I'll wager he'll not make again. Once bitten, twice shy, as they say.

 

[Shock]

Yeah, except the Canadians, and those on the East Coast....

Oh geez, they're on to me......


Edit: POST 1000!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Patrukas777]

You've entered into some sort of contractual agreement whereby you were supposed to receive a product in exchange for monies within a certain time frame. Since he has had the money and not delivered the product as agreed to, you can explore a couple of options. Depending on the state he lives in, you can file in small claims and as we've seen in the matter of MLS, you may not even have to make a physical appearance to present your case. That information can be obtained from the state in which he lives. You can also contact both the local police as well as the attorney general in the state and present your side of the story. They may ask for corroborating documents which I'll assume you have. They then may choose to file criminal charges which invariably include restitution. Depending upon the amount in question, they may rise to the level of a felony.

This is 100% a civil issue. The Police can do absolutely nothing for him. He would waste his time if he took it to the Police, they would refer him to civil court. The only time it would be a criminal matter would be if Chris took the money with the intent to never make the speakers...that is hard as hell to prove considering there are pictures that show his progress. Randy could civilly sue chris and would win....if indeed their is a written contract with dates.

Pretty sad story though, I would be upset if I were in Randy's shoes.

 

[tonygeno]

This is 100% a civil issue. The Police can do absolutely nothing for him. He would waste his time if he took it to the Police, they would refer him to civil court. The only time it would be a criminal matter would be if Chris took the money with the intent to never make the speakers...that is hard as hell to prove considering there are pictures that show his progress. Randy could civilly sue chris and would win....if indeed their is a written contract with dates.

Pretty sad story though, I would be upset if I were in Randy's shoes.

So if there are no dates, he has until forever to build the speakers? An honorable man would have refunded the money long ago. Speakers that are two years in the making? Puhleese. At minimum, he should send the materials to Randy along with the remainder of the 5K (5K less materials cost) and write all the labor off to a poor decision to build speakers without the proper workshop/time and expertise. In my view, there is no other choice at this point.

 

[Patrukas777]

So if there are no dates, he has until forever to build the speakers? An honorable man would have refunded the money long ago. Speakers that are two years in the making? Puhleese. At minimum, he should send the materials to Randy along with the remainder of the 5K (5K less materials cost) and write all the labor off to a poor decision to build speakers without the proper workshop/time and expertise. In my view, there is no other choice at this point.

If he has no dates on a contract, that gives Chris a lot more leeway. A contract with a deadline is very black and white in court. I wasn't speaking of what an honorable man would do, I was speaking from a legal standpoint. I agree as an "Honorable Man" that I would have refunded his money a long time ago, but that was not what I was addressing..."Puhleese"

 

[jamie2112]

HOLY S&*% what the heck has happened.I have not been on here in a few days but damn,this is heavy! I agree completely with almost every post today.Chris,whom I have spoken to many times on the phone has alot of knowhow in the speaker and amplification world but it seems as though the expertise has now exceeded the actual doing.In other words you can't be full of it and not expect people to find out.This is a small community of people on here,most of us really love the site and helping others get into this "hobby" or whatever you want to call it.I am not even going to state the obvious here but the ban is justified.I know that Chris loves this site and its really one of the only outlets he has,trust me but its true! That being said leading another member on about time of completion is just gotten old and its time to man up and deliver on your promises.I am sorry to see this go down but damn its been almost 2 years and alot of money out of Randy's pocket.I am sure the money has been spent and yet he still does not have his speakers.For SHAME on you Chris.Get the man his speakers this has gone on for WAY to long.I hope this works out for Randy and Chris but the time has come to put up or no longer have this forum that you cherish so much Chris..........rant over