Def Techs, B&Ws, Focals Audition.

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Our techs find the Def Tech Bipolar speakers easy to place.

Yeah, that's what Best Buy and Ultimate Electronics say too. And their DefTech Bipolars sounded very mediocre to me!

 

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

Def Tech tells us in dealer training to place their Bipolar towers no closer than 6" and no further than 24" from the walls.

I'll try placing them closer and see how they perform.

-Robert

 

[GlocksRock]

That's what their website says as well, but my friend has some that are several feed from his front wall, and they still sound great, although the bass is lacking a bit, but the soundstage and imaging is still pretty good.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Def Tech tells us in dealer training to place their Bipolar towers no closer than 6" and no further than 24" from the walls.

I'll try placing them closer and see how they perform.

Closer than 6" from the wall???

As in 3" from the wall???

That would sound terrible.

24" - 36" sounds more like it.

And the BP speakers sound better with the built-in Active Subs facing each other (away from the side walls).

 

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

It seems to make sense that the further away from the wall the more base as it produces a larger sound wave better. I just sold off our BP 7001 from display so I can't test them at the moment.

I must say our store demo BP 7001s performed beautifully! We had them 6" from the wall with no side walls near by. Still personally I love our Mythos STS demo speakers.

-Robert

 

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

Def Tech tells us in dealer training to place their Bipolar towers no closer than 6" and no further than 24" from the walls.

I'll try placing them closer and see how they perform.

-Robert

Closer than 6" from the wall???

As in 3" from the wall???

That would sound terrible.

24" - 36" sounds more like it.

And the BP speakers sound better with the built-in Active Subs facing each other (away from the side walls).

No sir, that's not what I said. In fact, just the opposite, I said "no closer than 6"

-Robert

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

No sir, that's not what I said. In fact, just the opposite, I said "no closer than 6"

-Robert

No, you said: "I'll try placing them closer and see how they perform."

 

[AJinFLA]

Def Tech tells us in dealer training to place their Bipolar towers no closer than 6" and no further than 24" from the walls.

I'm incredulous that they would give such poor sonic advice, but of course, they know what sells...and it isn't telling a customer that their 16" deep speakers must be 2+ feet into the room. But then I consider how Bose manages to sell all those little cubes...and it all starts to make perfect sense. Aesthetics trumps sonics for 99%.

cheers,

AJ

p.s. the 3' distance I mentioned earlier would be to the depth centerline of the loudspeaker.

 

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

No, you said: "I'll try placing them closer and see how they perform."

OK ^^ . I was referring to another poster and said I would try them closer, but clearly that is not what I recommend or would normally try. My training and experience have given me the best results from 6" to 24 " from the walls.

Sorry for any confusion. Hope it's all clear now.

-Robert

 

[AJinFLA]

It seems to make sense that the further away from the wall the more base as it produces a larger sound wave better.

Not from a physics/acoustics standpoint. The soundwaves are produced exactly the same way. It is the interaction of the produced soundwaves, with the room boundaries, that varies with spatial position.

 

[GlocksRock]

It seems to make sense that the further away from the wall the more base as it produces a larger sound wave better. I just sold off our BP 7001 from display so I can't test them at the moment.

I must say our store demo BP 7001s performed beautifully! We had them 6" from the wall with no side walls near by. Still personally I love our Mythos STS demo speakers.

-Robert

I can't take it anymore, it's driving me crazy...
It's bass, not base... as a dealer you should know this.

/spelling nazi

 

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

I've explained what I know. I'll call my tech contact at Def Tech on Monday and post the best explanation possible.

-Robert

 

[AJinFLA]

I'll call my tech contact at Def Tech on Monday and post the best explanation possible

Make sure their knowledge extends to acoustics, not just marketing/sales

 

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

No problem, I did say "Tech contact" we agree far more than we disagree.

-Robert

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I've explained what I know. I'll call my tech contact at Def Tech on Monday and post the best explanation possible.

-Robert

All "recommendations" are just guidelines or starting points. They are not set in stones.

Every person needs to start with those starting points and try out different options to see which works the best.

for example, I also started out at 6". It sounded terrible. So I moved to 12" and it still sounded bad. I then moved to 18" and it started to sound better. So I continued to 24" and it sounded even better. So I moved to 36" and it sounded awesome. The BASS from my BP7000SCs @ 3' from the front wall and 4' from the side walls sounds awesome.

 

[AJinFLA]

No problem, I did say "Tech contact" we agree far more than we disagree.
-Robert

Cool. In the meantime Robert, you could get a sneak preview by reading up on Haas and Law of the first wavefront, so that when you receive an answer, you are able to separate "My subjective opinion/what a sales brochure recommends, etc, etc." vs established psycho-acoustic soundfield realities...and thus be able to know which one the Tech is telling you .

cheers,

AJ

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'll call my tech contact at Def Tech on Monday...

Robert, could you also ask them if Def Tech is coming out with a new flagship to replace the BP7000SC?

Thanks.

 

[Docks]

2nd audition

Well i went back to the store to audition the def techs and focals again.
This time i only listened to 3 speakers. IMO the B&W 683's aren't good performers so they are out.

The speakers are:
Focal Electra 1038 Be
Focal Chorus 716V
Def Tech BP7002

When i first listened to the def techs 7000,7002,7004 i was very impressed with them all. The focals not so much. The def techs initially had a MASSIVE sound stage and gave me goosebumps, like nothing i have ever heard.

The second time.. Something wasn't right, The song was different that i was playing (eagles - hotel cali live). But the sound stage was gone.. in all 3 speakers.

The focal electra and chorus had such little difference in sound quality, i swear the chorus even provided a larger sound stage for a fraction of the price. I was surprised that the lower end focals sounded the best to me.

The def techs provide something that i have not heard in B&W and focal, and its a certain energy that the other ones lack. I have also read on a few reviews on the BP7000 here:

The BP7000SC’s listening-window response (a five-point average of
axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures
+2.50/–3.64 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3dB point is at
22 Hz, and the –6dB point is at 21 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of
2.92 ohms at 424 Hz and a phase angle of –37.82

Which is pretty impressive considering the price.

I just couldn't move the def techs around the audition room to give me that real sound that i had heard the first time. Its really kinda crappy cause its a large amount of money here and I just continue to be unhappy with what i want. I'm still broken over the B&W's too, i've always wanted a set. It really seems like they are just hype these days though.

Im almost at the point where I don't even want to spend the money on speakers. I was very excited at first, but not so much.

Any suggestions? Maybe infinity? Paradigm? Ive read that the S8 has an amazing response curve.

 

[GlocksRock]

You just need to try them in your home if at all possible, and play with placement.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, see if the dealer will let you try them at home. Placement is extremely crucial.

I had a similar experience. I listened to the DefTech speakers at Ultimate Electronics and they sounded good, but not as good as the 2 reviews I read - Home Theater Magazine and Audio Video Revolution.

I was able try at home and return if needed to.

@ 6" away from the front wall - bad (subs face side wall & then subs face each other)

@ 12" - bad

@18" - better, but not great.

@24" - even better, almost perfect. Subs face side walls - not good. Subs face each other - almost perfect.

@36" - perfect w/ subs facing each other. Distance from side walls are 4'.