Memorial Day

[markw]

My first thought is "the military would grow too large". Your 2-year people lack the experience to be more than basic bodies: so you need to add all your career people to that. Switzerland is considering removing their requirement on these grounds.

Err, no.

The draft worked pretty good during WW2,Korea and Viet Nam, although too any political excptions were permitted on that last one and probably the others as well.

Everyone would serve two years active, learn a necessary skill, and serve many years on reserve. It works for other countries, like Israel. It can work here as well.

That way everyone gets a chance to earn a piece of the action instead of just sticking their hand out and saying "gimme gimme".

As for experienced soldiers, there will always be some who want to make a career out of the military. this should not change that.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Why? Everyone would simply plan two years out of their life to serve. Either right after high school or whatever secondary education they choose.

Of course volunteers would be welcome but this might become a moot point. Nobody would be forced out of the military after their term, assuming they did well.

I like the idea of no service, no vote.

Now, what politician has the balls to promote this?

Well for starters Robert A Heinlein that's who. ,But he was not a politician and a little weird on some subjects.
Didn't you read Starship Troopers as a kid?

 

[markw]

Well for starters Robert A Heinlein that's who. ,But he was not a politician and a little weird on some subjects.
Didn't you read Starship Troopers as a kid?

A long, long time ago when the earth was green, but my favorite was "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress".

 

[rnatalli]

Well for starters Robert A Heinlein that's who. ,But he was not a politician and a little weird on some subjects.
Didn't you read Starship Troopers as a kid?

Heinlein is exactly what I had in mind. Starship Troopers was an awesome book.

 

[ArthurPE]

are you kidding? compulsory service for all? male and female?
we would be adding 5.4 mil to the military every year, it's only 2 mil now
so if you kept them 2 years ~ 11 mil increase per year, at $100,000/conscript (only pay, housing, med, no equipment, nor infrastructure) that's 1.1 trillion $ per year...the current budget is 3.5 tril w/reciepts of 2.4 (1.1 tril deficit)
so you want to increase the budget by >30% and double the deficit?
and what will you do with the 11 mil feeding off the government tit, who otherwise would be paying taxes, etc.?
the average household income tax would increase ~ 1.1 tril/120 mil ~ $10,000 per household...

ask a volunteer if they want to share a foxhole with a reluctant conscript...

Err, no.

The draft worked pretty good during WW2,Korea and Viet Nam, although too any political excptions were permitted on that last one and probably the others as well.

Everyone would serve two years active, learn a necessary skill, and serve many years on reserve. It works for other countries, like Israel. It can work here as well.

That way everyone gets a chance to earn a piece of the action instead of just sticking their hand out and saying "gimme gimme".

As for experienced soldiers, there will always be some who want to make a career out of the military. this should not change that.

 

[ArthurPE]

were you in the military? I think not
10 weeks?
basic (BCT) is 9 weeks alone
AIT anywhere from 6-52 depending on specialty, can't have all 'grunts'
11B Infantryman is 7 weeks when combined with BCT
so even a grunt gets 16 weeks of training,
another 5-10 weeks specialized before deployment...

they only draft infantry? lol, Infantry is only a small part of an Army

The military doesn't have to be the only way to earn the right to vote, but certainly the fastest. Handicapped folks could serve in one of these other ways to earn the right.

As to your point about basic bodies. That's all infantry are in a draft situation. Draft, train for 10 weeks, and off to combat. The only difference here is they're volunteering instead of being forced by the government.

 

[ArthurPE]

the basic proposition that there must conditions satisfied before you can vote (other than age, citizenship, no felons) is patently un-american
that's what people died for in wars...to contest 'conditions'
no Jews (Germany)
no blacks
no serbs/croatian
no 'pick a tribe'
this occupation can vote, this one can't
wait, I think only college grads IQ>120 should vote!
must make >100,000k and own your home...

you folks are nuts

the good news is I served, so all you folks who think ALL must serve, have you?

 

[markw]

ask a volunteer if they want to share a foxhole with a reluctant conscript...

They did in WW2, Korea and Viet-nam. Are you saying that kids today aren't as much men as those other people?

 

[ArthurPE]

They did in WW2, Korea and Viet-nam. Are you saying that kids today aren't as much men as those other people?

what % of the forces were drafted in those wars?
WWI & Korea drafted men from 18 to 65, with 18 to 45 being immediate...so most guys were >30

Viet Nam era
9.2 mil
2.2 mil drafted
actual combat 'in country'
total 3.4 mil
draftees 650k
<20%, 1 out of 5
in other words the vast majority were VOLUNTEERS

are you saying every household can afford to pay 10k more in taxes?
and we deplete colleges of their incoming classes?
oh, wait, 'college boys' don't have to go, they can go to school
and when done go in as officers? millions of new officers?
how about doctors & lawyers? they must all serve too?

 

[STRONGBADF1]

... A day dedicated to Remember those who served - Military and Police & Fire - who gave the Ultimate Sacrifice with Honor & Duty for this Great Country!

Thank you to the fallen service people. Americas and her allies.

 

[markw]

Tell me...

what % of the forces were drafted in those wars?
WWI & Korea drafted men from 18 to 65, with 18 to 45 being immediate...so most guys were >30

Viet Nam era
9.2 mil
2.2 mil drafted
actual combat 'in country'
total 3.4 mil
draftees 650k
<20%, 1 out of 5
in other words the vast majority were VOLUNTEERS

are you saying every household can afford to pay 10k more in taxes?
and we deplete colleges of their incoming classes?
oh, wait, 'college boys' don't have to go, they can go to school
and when done go in as officers? millions of new officers?
how about doctors & lawyers? they must all serve too?

Where did I specify they must serve in the military. There are other service areas they could serve. IIRC, the WPA did many good things such as the TVA, Hoover Dam, etc, etc... There are other projects that could be undertaken by a modern work corps and, with the dwindling job situation, it could provide some income for them. And, doctors and dentists could serve in poorer areas of this country or the elderly.

Now Arthur, I'm done with you. If you want continue to turn this thread into a pithing contest, at least show enough respect to those who served by starting your own thread instead of hijacking this one.

 

[ArthurPE]

Where did I specify they must serve in the military. There are other service areas they could serve. IIRC, the WPA did many good things such as the TVA, Hoover Dam, etc, etc... There are other projects that could be undertaken by a modern work corps and, with the dwindling job situation, it could provide some income for them. And, doctors and dentists could serve in poorer areas of this country or the elderly.

Now Arthur, I'm done with you. If you want continue to turn this thread into a pithing contest, at least show enough respect to those who served by starting your own thread instead of hijacking this one.

so now they go into government funded public works projects?
who pays? doctors/dentists/etc. must work for a rate determined by the government, not the market? don't they already serve who ever need help? wouldn't that be REAL socialized healthcare?
and what about all the soon to be unemployed that will pop up because all the highway and public work project jobs are taken by this mass conscription? there are 1.5 milcollege grads alone each year...

OK so EVERYONE who grads HS goes into public service to earn the right to vote? who fills the private sector work force? the colleges? the professions?

hopefully not the side you advocate for, socialism, everything you proffer is pretty much un-american...

I was with the All-Americans AA and 1st/75th INF (Ranger)
in what unit did you serve? do you vote?

...then again I swore an oath to defend against 'enemies both foreign and domestic'...
which are you?

btw: it was you who derailed the thread with absurdities...
you're 'done with me', lol, you never started with me

 

[rnatalli]

were you in the military? I think not
10 weeks?
basic (BCT) is 9 weeks alone
AIT anywhere from 6-52 depending on specialty, can't have all 'grunts'
11B Infantryman is 7 weeks when combined with BCT
so even a grunt gets 16 weeks of training,
another 5-10 weeks specialized before deployment...

they only draft infantry? lol, Infantry is only a small part of an Army

Where did I say they only draft infantry?

A friend of mine was in Vietnam and was sent there right out of boot camp which he said was 8 weeks if I recall correctly and yes, he was infantry. And he's not the only person I've heard with a similar story. When you're desperate for soldiers for the front line, those rule books on how much training you need for combat apparently go right out the window. However, I could be mistaken about the amount of training, but that had nothing to do with my point.

To answer your question, I have not served in the U.S. military. I have family members and friends who have and currently serve in the U.S. military and I thank them every chance I get. If you indeed served, thank you as well.

 

[markw]

When and where were you in the service, Arthur?

Remember, there were many years people joined expecting no real active duty. That' why all the gnashing of teeth in 1991 when Desert Shield was implemented. They never anticipated actually having to serve, just reap the benefits.

FWIW, I was in from '68 to 72 and spent a lot of time babysitting communications gear on the tops of remote moutains in SE asia.

So, what years were you in and where did you serve, as if I would believe you anyway? Your attituded to those draftees who served and gave their lives before you were old enough to serve is a disgrace and I doubt any "real" veteran would say those things.