Memorial Day

[Tarub]

... A day dedicated to Remember those who served - Military and Police & Fire - who gave the Ultimate Sacrifice with Honor & Duty for this Great Country!

God Bless America!


It is the VETERAN,
not the preacher,who has given us freedom of religion.

It is the VETERAN,
not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press.

It is the VETERAN,
not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the VETERAN,
not the campus organizer, who has given us freedom to assemble.

It is the VETERAN,
not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial.


It is the VETERAN,
not the politician, Who has given us the right to vote.


It is the VETERAN who salutes the Flag,

It is the VETERAN
who serves under the Flag,

ETERNAL REST GRANT THEM O LORD,
AND LET PERPETUAL LIGHT SHINE UPON THEM.


FREEDOM IS NOT FREE

 

[Alex2507]

FREEDOM IS NOT FREE

How about for Canadians?

 

[Shock]

How about for Canadians?

How many cuts must I cut you with?

 

[Alex2507]

A nod to dkane ...

 

[dkane360]

A nod to dkane ...

Thanks, I appreciate that. Memorial Day means so much more to me now than just the unofficial start of summer. I know many of my friends and family have a new appreciation for our country's service men and women. My brother gave the ultimate sacrifice, and for that I ask that you take some time out of your Memorial Day, and remember those who have lost their lives for this country.

 

[GO-NAD!]

How about for Canadians?

Nope.

Let's see now....60,000 in WW1, 40,000 in WW2, Several hundred in Korea (can't recall the precise number). In Afghanistan - 146 and counting.

Thousands served during the Spanish civil war against the fascists - hundreds died. 20,000 Canadians served with U.S. forces in Vietnam. I have no idea how many of them died there.

Many have died on "peace-keeping" missions. These missions often have little peace to keep. For example, in 1993, Canadian troops ended up in a battle (Medak Pocket) with the Croatian army while defending Serb civilians. The Croats received a pasting for their efforts, from a much smaller and more lightly armed force. Fortunately, no Canadians were killed in that battle.

In Canada, it took a long time for word of the battle to get out. The government sat on it, because they were afraid of what the general public might think - "Good Lord, we can't have our soldiers actually fighting can we?"

I'm not criticising you Alex; I understand that your question was tongue in cheek. In fact, it's a very good question to ask of Johnny Canuck in the street.

I think most Canadian civies do believe that freedom is free. Ask a Canadian who has served in uniform and that silly notion will be quickly corrected...

 

[Alex2507]

For example, in 1993, Canadian troops ended up in a battle (Medak Pocket) with the Croatian army while defending Serb civilians.

Hmmm ... 'Peace Keepers'? Canadians firing on Croatians? America bombing Serbia?

Once again:

America ... Right.
Canada ... Wrong, completely wrong.

Since you brought it up here's a quick read.

I just want to point out that the term 'civilian' is rather tough to establish. I'm not like a historian but that took place early on while there was an arms embargo in place over an unarmed Croatia while the Serbs had tanks. The part where it reads that it was under Serb control means just that ... an area occupied by a military force. Keep in mind that civilians aided Serbia in Slovania, Bosnia, Kosovo and anywhere else Serbia was waging war. Remember that it was their head honcho that got indited for war crimes. That should make you wonder about which side of right the various combatants were on.

/rant.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Hmmm ... 'Peace Keepers'? Canadians firing on Croatians? America bombing Serbia?

Once again:

America ... Right.
Canada ... Wrong, completely wrong.

Since you brought it up here's a quick read.

I just want to point out that the term 'civilian' is rather tough to establish. I'm not like a historian but that took place early on while there was an arms embargo in place over an unarmed Croatia while the Serbs had tanks. The part where it reads that it was under Serb control means just that ... an area occupied by a military force. Keep in mind that civilians aided Serbia in Slovania, Bosnia, Kosovo and anywhere else Serbia was waging war. Remember that it was their head honcho that got indited for war crimes. That should make you wonder about which side of right the various combatants were on.

/rant.

I wasn't picking sides, I was just stating what happened. There were no innocent "sides" in that conflict. And, the Canada did not pick sides either. All sides were criticized by the Canadian commanders on the ground wherever it was warranted.

Thanks for the link, I've already read that, as well as a book written about it. I knew about the battle, because I know a guy who was there. That's why I looked into it.

Anyway, my post was not about the Balkans. It was about Canadians and the perception that we've always taken a free ride from the US, when it comes to defence.

I have to confess that I'm not sure what you're getting at with the "America..right, Canada..wrong" thing.

 

[markw]

I think most Canadian civies do believe that freedom is free.

This is not just true for Canadians. Many Americans think the same thing, particularly since the draft was ended. Too much liberal media.

Ask a Canadian who has served in uniform and that silly notion will be quickly corrected...

Again, this is true for the US as well. That's why I think a universal draft would be a good thing.

 

[rnatalli]

Again, this is true for the US as well. That's why I think a universal draft would be a good thing.

A universal draft just causes problems. Leave the volunteer system in place and make one change. Only those who serve for at least 2 years are allowed to vote in elections.

 

[majorloser]

Only those who serve for at least 2 years are allowed to vote in elections.

Wouldn't that mean the end of all liberal democrats in office?

 

[Chu Gai]

My father in law served in the Army as a medic in the Pacific during WW II. My late uncle (mother's side) served during WW II in Europe. Another uncle (deceased, father's side) served in Europe in the Air Force but also did time where he was involved in nuclear reasearch (Manhattan Project). My last remaining uncle who served and is still alive did so in Europe. I talk to him from time to time and I asked him some questions about what it was like in combat and if there were any recent movies that most accurately portrayed combat. He said that Saving Private Ryan came closest but there were two to three things the movie missed.

One was the ever present sound of 88's as they were fired by the German artillery. People would scramble into anything that resembled a hole. Two was that there was such an abundance of unexploded artillery everywhere including shells that partially penetrated buildings that just 'sat' there. The last he said was that everywhere you went where there was or had been combat was the ever present smell of burning bodies. You just couldn't get away from it.

 

[markw]

A universal draft just causes problems.

Why? Everyone would simply plan two years out of their life to serve. Either right after high school or whatever secondary education they choose.

Leave the volunteer system in place and make one change. Only those who serve for at least 2 years are allowed to vote in elections.

Of course volunteers would be welcome but this might become a moot point. Nobody would be forced out of the military after their term, assuming they did well.

I like the idea of no service, no vote.

Now, what politician has the balls to promote this?

 

[Tarub]

I have a beer waiting for you Matt when you come back here.http://www.beerforsoldiers.org/

 

[Patrukas777]

I just wanted to say thank you to all of our fallen Soldiers and Police who made the ultimate sacrifice. Thanks for protecting our rights, us and our families, and our property that we work so hard to acquire. We can sit at home watching our ridiculous HT's and drinking our beer/hard liquor because of them. I love this country...and I hope you do too!

 

[ArthurPE]

Wouldn't that mean the end of all liberal democrats in office?

doesn't look like there would be any chickenhawk repubs either, cheney, 5 deferments
http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

the only serving CMH recipient is a dem, and a minority to boot

a bullet knows no party affiliation

 

[highfigh]

How about for Canadians?

They get hit with the VAT, so it's technically free, but it's still taxed.

 

[highfigh]

A universal draft just causes problems. Leave the volunteer system in place and make one change. Only those who serve for at least 2 years are allowed to vote in elections.

While we're at it, why not make real estate ownership a requirement for voting, too. That would certainly cut down on the number of people casting votes for people who don't have the country's best interests in mind.

With 300 Million people in the US, I'm not sure how long it would take to get everyone in to serve. Plus, in two years, all we would have is a lot of partially-trained troops. It would be a helluva human fence along the US/Mexico border, though.

 

[JerryLove]

Wouldn't that mean the end of all liberal democrats in office?

Erm... no. Kerry (to use a presidential nominee as an example) is a vetren.

Cheney, Palin, Ron Paul, Huckabee, Romney, Gingrich. These people would be out (so would Clinton and Obama).

Why? Everyone would simply plan two years out of their life to serve. Either right after high school or whatever secondary education they choose.

My first thought is "the military would grow too large". Your 2-year people lack the experience to be more than basic bodies: so you need to add all your career people to that. Switzerland is considering removing their requirement on these grounds.

I like the idea of no service, no vote.

What will you do with the handicapped?

All politicing aside: I offer thanks to all those who honorably served this country.

 

[rnatalli]

My first thought is "the military would grow too large". Your 2-year people lack the experience to be more than basic bodies: so you need to add all your career people to that. Switzerland is considering removing their requirement on these grounds.

What will you do with the handicapped?

The military doesn't have to be the only way to earn the right to vote, but certainly the fastest. Handicapped folks could serve in one of these other ways to earn the right.

As to your point about basic bodies. That's all infantry are in a draft situation. Draft, train for 10 weeks, and off to combat. The only difference here is they're volunteering instead of being forced by the government.