The Upgrade Company Threatened Audioholics with Legal Action

[aberkowitz]

I have a serious question. I question the legality of their communication with Gene and find it disgusting that this company would resort to these bullying tactics. [/B]

There's nothing wrong with the legality of this communication (however shady it may seem)- it is all part of the gamesmanship of business. Part of succeeding in business it taking advantage of the perceived weaknesses of others, whether it be your competition (through edgy bordering on false advertising), your customers (through high prices), or in this case by attacking 3rd parties who may be giving negative reviews to your product by threatening them with a lawsuit. All of these are calculated risks that can totally blow up in the face of the party taking them, however the success rate does not need to be very high to make a lot of money.

In this case, TUC is taking a gamble on the fact that website admins may be easily scared away by simple letter from a lawyer when in fact the website was doing nothing wrong. If Gene hadn't been as intelligent as he is and called BS on the POS "lawsuit threat", TUC would probably release a press release to such effect (resulting in free positive PR) and would gain leverage to push other websites to do the same. All of this adding legitimacy to their services for the uninformed.

Clearly this gamble is not working in this case, and in fact it's backfiring b/c TUC ends up looking like a bunch of desperate morons (which they most certainly are) that are looking to drum up new business.

 

[Gizmologist]

DBT test system

The design is as follows. The system uses logic controlled high speed switches (Maxim 303CPE) controlled by a random number generator circuit that basically selects either test cable at random intervals. There is NO operator or user control to INITIATE the test transfer, but only a button that operates a tally counter dedicated to each cable with a Y/N indicator the listener cannot see.

The switching sequence momentarily parallels BOTH cables (1-3 seconds) then drops off one or the other. That way there is no sudden glitch in the audio as one path is made and the other broken. The switching of the IC is less than 10 ns, but we drastically lengthen that for this test.

The listener has a 2 button controller. He pushes one button or the other that tallies whether he thinks a cable is a high dollar or the stock. The tally system tracks the correct/incorrect choices.

There are NO active or passive analog or linear components in the signal path, ONLY the IC switch and the gold flashed RCA jacks and the cable length between the I/O jacks and the switch is a total of about 3 inches.
The power supply is a switching style and is external to the device and has a ferrite sleeve on the DC input. The listener remote tally controls are even opto-isolated.

I think I have about covered any realistic concerns about accuracy and coloration from the test system.

I detailed all this on the other forum and after the cable hawker read it, he immediately declined the test and has not been heard from since.

Wonder why?

 

[Gizmologist]

Another very real possibility

We KNOW that some folks post under multiple SNs and it seems quite possible that ol DS simply created a letter from a faux attorney in a silly attempt to scare the mods / site owner. The letter certainly does not seem to be very "lawyerly". My brother-in-law is an attorney and he certainly does not sound anywhere near the style used in the letter about TUC. A REAL attorney would have already known the DS has nary a leg to stand on.

I can create a letterhead as well and compose a legalese letter that would convince most anyone. I did exactly that for my GF when she applied to SSDI.

We got her accepted in 2 weeks and got a retro check that was unexpected.
I told the absolute truth about her conditions but I used legalese to describe them. Rather effectively I guess.

I would really love to get my hands and scopes/meters on a DS modded unit except I don't have the bucks to waste to buy a trashed unit with no factory warranty.

 

[lsiberian]

We KNOW that some folks post under multiple SNs and it seems quite possible that ol DS simply created a letter from a faux attorney in a silly attempt to scare the mods / site owner. The letter certainly does not seem to be very "lawyerly". My brother-in-law is an attorney and he certainly does not sound anywhere near the style used in the letter about TUC. A REAL attorney would have already known the DS has nary a leg to stand on.

I can create a letterhead as well and compose a legalese letter that would convince most anyone. I did exactly that for my GF when she applied to SSDI.

We got her accepted in 2 weeks and got a retro check that was unexpected.
I told the absolute truth about her conditions but I used legalese to describe them. Rather effectively I guess.

I would really love to get my hands and scopes/meters on a DS modded unit except I don't have the bucks to waste to buy a trashed unit with no factory warranty.

Not everyone writes the same way. I think the best bet is to assume it's valid. Your brother-in-law is probably doing less menial work. Though a ghostwriter may be possible. Given the nature I'd not think it was Casper. He's much too friendly.

 

[Jed M]

I don't have the bucks to waste to buy a trashed unit with no factory warranty.

The sad thing is there are probably more than a few of Schulte's customers that are in the same boat, but they just don't realize its trash.

 

[highfigh]

The design is as follows. The system uses logic controlled high speed switches (Maxim 303CPE) controlled by a random number generator circuit that basically selects either test cable at random intervals. There is NO operator or user control to INITIATE the test transfer, but only a button that operates a tally counter dedicated to each cable with a Y/N indicator the listener cannot see.

The switching sequence momentarily parallels BOTH cables (1-3 seconds) then drops off one or the other. That way there is no sudden glitch in the audio as one path is made and the other broken. The switching of the IC is less than 10 ns, but we drastically lengthen that for this test.

The listener has a 2 button controller. He pushes one button or the other that tallies whether he thinks a cable is a high dollar or the stock. The tally system tracks the correct/incorrect choices.

There are NO active or passive analog or linear components in the signal path, ONLY the IC switch and the gold flashed RCA jacks and the cable length between the I/O jacks and the switch is a total of about 3 inches.
The power supply is a switching style and is external to the device and has a ferrite sleeve on the DC input. The listener remote tally controls are even opto-isolated.

I think I have about covered any realistic concerns about accuracy and coloration from the test system.

I detailed all this on the other forum and after the cable hawker read it, he immediately declined the test and has not been heard from since.

Wonder why?

The total cable length being tested is about 3"? That's just for the testing hardware, right? You use real-world cable lengths for the actual tests, am I correct?

 

[Gizmologist]

Yes

The internal cabling is about 3 inches and both channels are identical in length and gauge from the IN through the IC and back to the OUT jacks. Real world cables are used and are matched as to length. Given the speed of propagation of an electrical signal through a wire I KNOW it makes no difference if the cable is 3 ft or 6ft, but for some die hard mega buck cable devotees, that 3 ft difference may be a disqualifier.

There are connections for a DMM with a peak read/store function and and a dual channel scope to be used to verify I/O signal levels. I will probably include a 5 voltDC square wave alignment source to calibrate the 2 scope cables.

 

[highfigh]

The internal cabling is about 3 inches and both channels are identical in length and gauge from the IN through the IC and back to the OUT jacks. Real world cables are used and are matched as to length. Given the speed of propagation of an electrical signal through a wire I KNOW it makes no difference if the cable is 3 ft or 6ft, but for some die hard mega buck cable devotees, that 3 ft difference may be a disqualifier.

There are connections for a DMM with a peak read/store function and and a dual channel scope to be used to verify I/O signal levels. I will probably include a 5 voltDC square wave alignment source to calibrate the 2 scope cables.

Do you measure more than once, to prove/disprove cable break-in?

Have you checked out any of the PC-based oscilloscope setups?

Do you use this screen name at RC?

 

[Gizmologist]

Break in

Well since I give zero credence to break-in of wire of any kind, I am only concerned with building a device to AB switch IC cables.

There is zero scientific evidence form anywhere in the last 20 years since cable break-in etc became an snake oil seller claim.

40+ years working with a few million feet of cable for every function in the AV world has provided me with a pretty good understanding of cable dynamics.

 

[1hagop]

Not everyone writes the same way. I think the best bet is to assume it's valid. Your brother-in-law is probably doing less menial work. Though a ghostwriter may be possible. Given the nature I'd not think it was Casper. He's much too friendly.

Law classes for any 1L at an ABA school:
Torts
Contracts
Crim Law
Legal Writing

It is a illegal to impersonate a lawyer. I agree it is best to assume it is valid.

This is not legal advice, I am NOT YOUR lawyer.

 

[highfigh]

Well since I give zero credence to break-in of wire of any kind, I am only concerned with building a device to AB switch IC cables.

There is zero scientific evidence form anywhere in the last 20 years since cable break-in etc became an snake oil seller claim.

40+ years working with a few million feet of cable for every function in the AV world has provided me with a pretty good understanding of cable dynamics.

I probably should have put some kind of smiley after the question, but I wanted to see your reaction and that's the kind I was looking for. I've got 30+ years under my belt and I'm as sick of it as you are. An old customer of mine was working at a high end store and he tried to explain the AudioQuest battery powered audio cables to me. I just said "I thought I taught you better.". He showed me the price list and I almost fell over when I saw the cost/retail prices. That's disgusting. $4900 for a 6' pair with garage door opener batteries? Ohhh boy!

 

[lsiberian]

There is no reason to use ABX testing. Just take an SPL sweep reading. If their is a measurable difference greater than 1db than it makes a difference. If it's greater than 3 db it makes a significant difference.

 

[highfigh]

Law classes for any 1L at an ABA school:
Torts
Contracts
Crim Law
Legal Writing

It is a illegal to impersonate a lawyer.

Talk about job security. Lawyers become judges, many become members of Congress and they're the only people who can write/enact laws.

 

[highfigh]

There is no reason to use ABX testing. Just take an SPL sweep reading. If their is a measurable difference greater than 1db than it makes a difference. If it's greater than 3 db it makes a significant difference.

Nice theory but when so many believe the hype, they won't consider objective testing as valid.

 

[Gizmologist]

I know but....

I am designing this as there are so many diehards out there falling for the designer cable hype. This seems to be the only way left since EE theory, scopes, meters, hundreds of years of cumulative experience from the pros, etc seem to have no effect on them.

 

[highfigh]

I am designing this as there are so many diehards out there falling for the designer cable hype. This seems to be the only way left since EE theory, scopes, meters, hundreds of years of cumulative experience from the pros, etc seem to have no effect on them.

As the saying goes, "If you can't impress them with facts, baffle them with BS".

Or, as Eddie Izzard said when talking about ancient philosophers who didn't need proof at first, only the new idea- "Well, I'll prove it- with string and iodine and a note from my mother".

 

[MatthewB.]

What cracks me up is that David J Schulte had to pay money out of his own pocket to pay for his lawyer fees to send out this stupid and pointless letter to many forums.

I find it ironic how when a legitiimate company is asked to prove something about a product they will comply in a freindly manner (as long as no trade or copyright secrets are revelaed) Chet from Definitive technology is a fine example of this, yet illegitimate companies is asked to show proof or technical data related to a product, they immediatly hire a lawyer.

I actually have read alot about "The Upgrade Company" on various forums and rank them up there with a speaker I buy out of the back of a white van.

Oh by the way David you can sue me for that comment, but rest assured my lawyer will ask for technical data related to your products and since in court that is public record (and readily available to anyone who asks for it) I say go for it.

 

[droht]

I haven't look at the avs thread, but hasn't anyone opened up something TUC did and compared it to stock? He doesn't weld stuff closed does he?

 

[skers_54]

I haven't look at the avs thread, but hasn't anyone opened up something TUC did and compared it to stock? He doesn't weld stuff closed does he?

One guy did and it looked like a pretty amatuerish job. As far as anyone could tell, a few caps were replaced (but installed crookedly), some ferrites were added and a bunch of wires were wrapped in some shiny paper.

 

[Jed M]

There are some before and after pictures discussed on this page at another forum.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17772045