DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[bunnyma357]

They wouldn't even honor my original LS9 pre-order which still wouldn't be filled...AV123, despite being run by MLS' family, will not honor his other dealings in any way. It's totally ridiculous how it's all going down...he's used AV123 email addys and run the advertising through the forum.

I've looked into a few things and not really gotten anywhere.

This was kind of my point in the post that got me banned, that it seems like The Graham Company and Act 3 Audio had already been used to create a layer between AV123 and customers that made getting products or refunds difficult.

That a new company TADG was being formed certainly threw up a red flag for me, and wouldn't seem to be the way to attempt to get AV123 back on track. The added twist that there is no info of who or what TADG is, and that they are doing the designs, while AV123 is making the sales would seem to create a situation where AV123 would have all the liabilities, and TADG would have all the intellectual property, so if AV123 fails it probably wouldn't be too big a deal to just sell the same designs through another new company.

Obviously, since there is no actual info on TADG, this is just one guess, I wish they would just post the details of the relationship and how it will benefit AV123's customer base, so that we can all understand the plan going forward.


Jim C

 

[MinusTheBear]

+1

As much as Chu has outlined what's been happening, there is quite a bit of "not yet ready to disclose" (oh, man, I sound like TADG) issues going on.

When the dust settles and information about the other dealings comes out, the sound of peoples jaws hitting the floor is going to be deafening.

So you are saying still after 3600 posts and close to 400 000 views, this soap opera is just beginning? The next time I go shopping I have to remind myself to stock up on the popcorn.

 

[candyman]

Cujobob,

I'm confused. Are you saying that you pre-paid for your LS9 and they won't honor the order, or just that you put your name on the pre-order list (but did not pay) and they wouldn't honor the original price? If the former, what basis have they given for refusing to provide goods that you have paid for?

And what do you mean that AV123 will not honor MLS's dealings? I thought the LS speakers were in fact AV123 speakers, unlike the RSL II, which was what, Act 3? Are you saying that AV123 has denied that the LS9 pre-order is through it, and is instead claiming it was some sort of personal deal from MLS?

While I don't and won't speak on behalf of cujobob, I believe our situations have similarities. I pre-paid ($4500+) for LS9s more than 2 years ago. The money, instead of going to AV123 went to The Graham Company. I thought The Graham Company was a processing or holding company of AV123. Nope. It's mls's "wholesale" business.

Estimates were the speakers were about 4 months out. After 8 months, no LS9s had been delivered and it was apparent they wouldn't be delivered anytime soon. I requested a refund. AV123, on multiple occasions, said it needs to be collected from mls. What?!? I ordered and paid-for AV123 LS9 speakers and AV123 would and will not provide a refund. They also said I couldn't have AV123 credit (so I could resell) and that it'd have to be Graham Company credit, whatever the heck that is. And, needless to say, mls has not refunded my money.

 

[wshuff]

While I don't and won't speak on behalf of cujobob, I believe our situations have similarities. I pre-paid ($4500+) for LS9s more than 2 years ago. The money, instead of going to AV123 went to The Graham Company. I thought The Graham Company was closely affiliated or a holding company of AV123. Nope. It's mls's "wholesale" business.

Estimates were the speakers were about 4 months out. After 8 months, no LS9s had been delivered and it was apparent they wouldn't be delivered anytime soon. I requested a refund. AV123, on multiple occassions, said it needs to be collected from mls. What?!? I ordered and paid-for AV123 LS9 speakers and AV123 would and will not provide a refund. And, needless to say, mls has not refunded my money.

Thanks Candyman. I've never understood why the LS9 ended up being so much more problematic in comparison to the LS6. I guess I got lucky with mine. I got on the pre-order list for the LS6, but I didn't pre-pay anything. A little more than two years later AV123 contacted me, I paid, and the speakers shipped. Your information provides something of an explanation. I'd read a bit about The Graham Company in these posts, but the role it played was always mysterious. This sheds some light on the situation. Thanks.

 

[myaudiocd]

Well now that's an intriguing statement. Here I thought the emperor was, after all this, standing without clothes. You're saying he still has another layer to come off?
I can't look....

+1

As much as Chu has outlined what's been happening, there is quite a bit of "not yet ready to disclose" (oh, man, I sound like TADG) issues going on.

When the dust settles and information about the other dealings comes out, the sound of peoples jaws hitting the floor is going to be deafening.

 

[Chu Gai]

How long before these other shoes drop?

Some are already dropping.

So you are saying still after 3600 posts and close to 400 000 views, this soap opera is just beginning? The next time I go shopping I have to remind myself to stock up on the popcorn.

Call it a spin off like Joanie Loves Chachi.

With respect to the RSL-II's and possibly some others, I have an idea that we should be able to attack AV451 directly and therefore 'La Familia de Ratas'.

 

[Jed M]

They wouldn't even honor my original LS9 pre-order which still wouldn't be filled...AV123, despite being run by MLS' family, will not honor his other dealings in any way. It's totally ridiculous how it's all going down...he's used AV123 email addys and run the advertising through the forum.

I've looked into a few things and not really gotten anywhere.

That's interesting. When I started thinking the LS-9's were never coming I ended up using my preorder LS-9 GC and bought LS-6's instead. When my name finally came up over a year later for my LS-9's they contacted me last summer and told me my 6k balance was due. I told them I was no longer interested since I received my LS-6's and I also told them that I was surprised they wanted me to pay 2k more than I was originally promised. I was hoping it was an error on their part but I didn't push it any further since I didn't want the speakers. After hearing your story it confirms what I was assuming they were doing. I would have been heartbroken if after that long of a wait they bait and switched me with a higher price. Either eat 4k or spend 2k more after being strung along for years on end. I have run out of words to describe my disgust for that whole ponzi scheme.

 

[cujobob]

While I don't and won't speak on behalf of cujobob, I believe our situations have similarities. I pre-paid ($4500+) for LS9s more than 2 years ago. The money, instead of going to AV123 went to The Graham Company. I thought The Graham Company was a processing or holding company of AV123. Nope. It's mls's "wholesale" business.

Estimates were the speakers were about 4 months out. After 8 months, no LS9s had been delivered and it was apparent they wouldn't be delivered anytime soon. I requested a refund. AV123, on multiple occasions, said it needs to be collected from mls. What?!? I ordered and paid-for AV123 LS9 speakers and AV123 would and will not provide a refund. They also said I couldn't have AV123 credit (so I could resell) and that it'd have to be Graham Company credit, whatever the heck that is. And, needless to say, mls has not refunded my money.

My situation is very similar. I paid and waited for LS9 (I originally had Strata Minis that were wired improperly when they were first released, returned them) then moved up to RSL II when the LS9 clearly was not close to being released. MLS told me via email that my RSL II pair would be shipping within 8 weeks. I assumed based on that and a phone conversation we had that the speakers were finished and ready to go.

Never got any money. Was told the same about how it has to go through MLS.

Was there any truth to the rumor about a home closing which was supposed to occur in February to pay back those owed money? He even forwarded messages from his lawyer or whatever.

I assume we all got the same stuff.

 

[Jed M]

My situation is very similar. I paid and waited for LS9 (I originally had Strata Minis that were wired improperly when they were first released, returned them) then moved up to RSL II when the LS9 clearly was not close to being released. MLS told me via email that my RSL II pair would be shipping within 8 weeks. I assumed based on that and a phone conversation we had that the speakers were finished and ready to go.

Never got any money. Was told the same about how it has to go through MLS.

Was there any truth to the rumor about a home closing which was supposed to occur in February to pay back those owed money? He even forwarded messages from his lawyer or whatever.

I assume we all got the same stuff.

A lot of people got the lawyer, house sale email. He sent a few of them if I recall. The house sale was real, but from what I could gather Mark already owed the other benefactors (family members) most of his cut, so that was that. Just another way to buy time, just like he did with the Chinese New Years, the Olympics, his health, his dog's health, his fence, his friends at the airport, the weather, overstaying guests, etc. I doubt we will ever know now just how large of a cut he was actually going to get since I would imagine any money he does receive will now go towards his defense.

 

[Chu Gai]

Was there any truth to the rumor about a home closing which was supposed to occur in February to pay back those owed money? He even forwarded messages from his lawyer or whatever.

I assume we all got the same stuff.

Well, not a home closing but the distribution of assets from what's known at the Estate of Gerrato. I'll give you my understanding of it. According to Zillows, the home of the late Fred Gerrato (MLS's mother, Naomi Schifter Gerrato had died a few years earlier) sold for $710,000. The total value of the estate is unclear. As I understand it, there were three beneficiaries - Shifty, his sister, and his step sister. The estate had to be probated and if we assume a 1/3 split all around, Shifty could be looking at a fair amount of cash.

But you see, there was a problem that delayed the probating which in itself is not the speediest of matters. You see, Shifty had also borrowed a very large amount of money from both his sister and step-sister. True to Shifty form, he didn't pay them back either and both sued him. So the probate process had to address this matter by reducing Shifty's share by the amount owed. It has also been said, that Shifty had also borrowed monies from Fred too and didn't pay him back. So, that resulted in a further reduction to Shifty's cut. However, it still left him with some money but now we're down to the mid 5-figures or so. Then, at least one other person also had filed a ciivl suit against Shifty and had won. Needless to say this estate matter which Shifty desperately tried to keep from being known to those who had legal claims pending, did in fact become known. So, in the end Shifty will be left with nothing.

A lot of people got his special emails where he forwarded correspondence from the lawyers involved in probating the estate. Every one was told to keep it to themselves. Hence every single individual was led to believe that at least they would be getting their money and besides you folks here who got those emails, I understand that Santiago also got them. Everyone was counting on it to make them whole. In the end, the only people who were made whole were those who'd sued Shifty and won. Allegedly

 

[NicolasKL]

To my knowledge, you don't have to worry about being banned for speaking out, too.

Lol, once he permabanned me, once he deleted my entire account including every post I'd ever made, and his latest trick is to not allow my account to see or post in the OT forum.

 

[wshuff]

Thanks for the explanation of the LS9 debacle.

It looks like I was one of the few lucky ones. I didn't have to prepay for my LS6, and AV123 (or whoever my order was actually with) honored the original pre-order price. It's really sickening what he's done to you. Seems his family has the right idea -- sue him. Each of you should do so too.

 

[m-fine]

Lol, once he permabanned me, once he deleted my entire account including every post I'd ever made, and his latest trick is to not allow my account to see or post in the OT forum.

Yeah but you can write the "F" word and post nudie pics so his forum is the most open and uncensored audio forum.

 

[Chu Gai]

Schifter loved telling everyone how well off he was

so I'd like to share a few of the things he's said over the years that he enjoyed spending his money on instead of sending the money to the charities or paying off people in general. I don't have the links but they're just a few of Humbly Bumbly's thoughts on what's really important to him.

In the future I plan on finding a way to raise more money for Derek's family and others by perhaps raffling off a good deal of my watch collection and my camera collection... I can't wear 69 watches even if I tried... and I have more than 15 cameras I don't use any more... I have some cool stuff in both collections... It's time to "get real" and extend our collective hands to those that could use a little lift...

When you want something - you buy it - I paid near to FULL TICKET for my Cayman S and it makes me smile every day I drive it...

I was wearing in that pic the Cartier Diablo rollerball (my fave rave right now)...

The best part is I let the guys wear my watches all the time... Some of the "managers" get angry with me... because they say that someone could steal it (run away style etc. etc.)... NEVER in my factory... For the record the watch bw was a Rolex Yacht Master in Platinum and Stainless... the perfect "factory watch"... (but don't get me started... ever since someone dissed my stainless Daytona I've stopped commenting on watches in general... )...

And let's not forget the one watch he did raffle but as for where the money went? The infamous, 04694/11111 Michael Schumacher (limited edition) Omega Speedmaster Racing (World Championship).

 

[Chu Gai]

Yeah but you can write the "F" word and post nudie pics so his forum is the most open and uncensored audio forum.

I had no idea there was a Leave it to Beaver policy there. Phuck me!

 

[gonk]

And let's not forget the one watch he did raffle but as for where the money went? The infamous, 04694/11111 Michael Schumacher (limited edition) Omega Speedmaster Racing (World Championship).

Ah, yes - mfig's beloved watch, the watch that he was so pleased to report had been delivered. He still seems completely unconcerned that Mark kept the money, to the point of being offended if someone brings up the fact.

 

[wshuff]

Who knows, by the time all is said and done he may get the opportunity to liquidate that watch collection, that car (if he still has it) and maybe some other stuff for the benefit of others. Let's call it state-imposed generosity.

 

[cujobob]

Thanks for the explanation Chu...it certainly would explain some things.

 

[Chu Gai]

Cujo, just because General Suzy-Q says this is Mark's problem and not hers or AV451's, doesn't make it so. Really, is she suddenly the one person who's the beacon of truth at that viper's den or is she hoping that because she's been a party to everything that you and everyone else will buy that explanation which will let the other's off the hook?

 

[tesseract]

Warranty concerns should av12Guilty go down the tubes have been voiced. What are their obligations should they go belly up?