Rockler Bits?

[highfigh]

I never try doing a 45° miter cut on MDF. The thin edges crumble. It's hard for me even with good plywood like baltic birch.

Mentioning how MDF and plywood come in metric thicknesses reminds me that I hate how this creates problems when using our non-metric tools. Speaker building is a good example, because nearly all drivers are made in metric dimensions. Figuring out how large a hole to cut for a driver 148 mm in diameter while using non-metric cutting and measuring tools is a mighty pain!!

And don't even mention that we measure length in inches (which by itself is alright) and fractions of inches (halves, quarters, eighths, sixteenths, etc.) which are awful to add, subtract, or divide in your head. If we even used inches and decimal inches it would be a lot easier than those dreadful fractions. If you have a board 7 and 5/8" wide, quickly (without using a calculator or pen & paper) tell me how far from the edge is the center. The answer is 3½ plus 5/16 = 3 and 13/16"). If we used centimeters, half of 19.4 cm is 9.7 cm. That's much easier to do in your head.

It's funny that we still call non-metric as the English system because the British abandoned it for metric a long time ago. And that brings me to my last point in this rant… if we had changed over to the metric system back in the early 1980s, as planned, none of this would matter today.

Why not use all metric measuring? Tape measures, scales, tape for table saw fences and squares are all available in metric. That way, you never need to convert.

You don't like adding 3-1/2" + .3125"? Why, it's 6.662mm, of course.

I'm not sure it was actually planned, as much as tested in the late '60s, to see if it would meet with approval. It wasn't and the rest of the world looks at us like we ride the short bus. The Mars mission didn't help, either. Using the wrong units for parachute deployment made the scientists look like idjits and the whole project was a waste.

"The metric system is the tool of the devil. My car gets fourty rods to the hogs head and that's the way I likes it!"

 

[Swerd]

Why not use all metric measuring? Tape measures, scales, tape for table saw fences and squares are all available in metric. That way, you never need to convert.

If I worked more often with it, I could justify spending the cash to do it. But I don't. Besides, its not the tape measures and squares, its all the router and drill bits that would cost to replace. OK, drill bits don't cost that much.

I just hate working with those fractions of an inch when decimals are so easy. I worked for about 30 years in biochemistry labs where we always used metric weights and volumes, and it was very easy to do the necessary arithmetic in your head.

Our cash uses the decimal system. Imagine how crazy it would be if we had 12 or 16 subdivisions of the dollar instead of 100.

I'm not sure it was actually planned, as much as tested in the late '60s, to see if it would meet with approval. It wasn't and the rest of the world looks at us like we ride the short bus.

I don't remember clearly, but I thought a conversion was planned to gradually take place during the late 70s and early 80s. Car speedometers and speed limit signs were going to be changed. Ronald Reagan canceled the whole thing because someone convinced him it was a communist plot. But the Detroit auto makers all converted anyway. Just not the rest of the country.

The Mars mission didn't help, either. Using the wrong units for parachute deployment made the scientists look like idjits and the whole project was a waste.

Ah yes, one of NASA's finest moments.

 

[highfigh]

If I worked more often with it, I could justify spending the cash to do it. But I don't. Besides, its not the tape measures and squares, its all the router and drill bits that would cost to replace. OK, drill bits don't cost that much.

I just hate working with those fractions of an inch when decimals are so easy. I worked for about 30 years in biochemistry labs where we always used metric weights and volumes, and it was very easy to do the necessary arithmetic in your head.

Our cash uses the decimal system. Imagine how crazy it would be if we had 12 or 16 subdivisions of the dollar instead of 100.

I don't remember clearly, but I thought a conversion was planned to gradually take place during the late 70s and early 80s. Car speedometers and speed limit signs were going to be changed. Ronald Reagan canceled the whole thing because someone convinced him it was a communist plot. But the Detroit auto makers all converted anyway. Just not the rest of the country.

Ah yes, one of NASA's finest moments.

HA! You posted that you prefer to work in decimal but that doesn't require metric! HA! (I'll run circles around you, logically).! (Yes, I know the origin of 'decimal'- I meant that 1/16 can be expressed as .0625, etc)

The reason fractions came about is that the divisions were determined visually, before so many people could use math. The concept of doubling and halving is easier than basing a measurement system on 10 or another larger number. Think back to prehistoric times, when Og needed to bust out a wall in the cave (you know how cave women are) and had already learned that if he opens it too much, it will collapse. At some point, he needs to be able to make repeatable marks on some material, in increments of 1/2, 1, 2, etc. The first time someone halved the distance from 2 to 4, he immediately had a mark for 3 and when he halved the distance from 2 to 3, he had 2-1/2, and so on. Decimal came much later, but was for literate people, at a time when most couldn't read or write.

Accuracy is easy when fine measuring is unnecessary. It's in the fine increments that uncertainty and doubts about the accuracy of the measuring instrument arise. A story stick works just fine for squaring a cabinet and no numbers are involved, at all. Well, the number 1 is used. If the stick fits correctly across one set of corners and then across the other set, it's square.

My school started using metric when I hit 7th grade, in '68/'69. We learned the MKS system and kept using it through high school. As far as I'm concerned, I think everyone should learn both, but of they don't need to use one or the other later, fine. It removes a variable when only one system is used and conversions are never absolutely accurate because some propeller-head will always go one additional place to the right of the decimal.

The guy to my left in Freshman Algebra has worked for NASA for a long time, but I'm certain he wasn't in charge of the Mars mission that crashed- he's from Czechoslovakia, his father was a professor of physics at the University of Prague and he took math and science classes at Marquette University after the math department at our high school determined that he was smarter than they were.

 

[KEW]

I never try doing a 45° miter cut on MDF. The thin edges crumble. It's hard for me even with good plywood like baltic birch.

Mentioning how MDF and plywood come in metric thicknesses reminds me that I hate how this creates problems when using our non-metric tools. Speaker building is a good example, because nearly all drivers are made in metric dimensions. Figuring out how large a hole to cut for a driver 148 mm in diameter while using non-metric cutting and measuring tools is a mighty pain!!

And don't even mention that we measure length in inches (which by itself is alright) and fractions of inches (halves, quarters, eighths, sixteenths, etc.) which are awful to add, subtract, or divide in your head. If we even used inches and decimal inches it would be a lot easier than those dreadful fractions. If you have a board 7 and 5/8" wide, quickly (without using a calculator or pen & paper) tell me how far from the edge is the center. The answer is 3½ plus 5/16 = 3 and 13/16"). If we used centimeters, half of 19.4 cm is 9.7 cm. That's much easier to do in your head.

It's funny that we still call non-metric as the English system because the British abandoned it for metric a long time ago. And that brings me to my last point in this rant… if we had changed over to the metric system back in the early 1980s, as planned, none of this would matter today.

Instead of "measure twice, cut once", my technique was "measure and adjust for 30 minutes, cut for 10 seconds" because I am very detail oriented.
This changed when I watched a woodworker from "the old country".

I wish I could share the actual experience with you, but I once went to a WW demonstration where they brought a guy in from Sweden to make a stool in 2.5 hours using no power tools.
Working fast using only had tools was very interesting, but the thing that really stuck with me was that he not once read a measurement off of a scale! He did have comparative or transfer devices, such as a simple divider or bevel such as:
http://www.woodworkingshop.com/cgi-bin/549F2F57/mac/additmdtl.mac/showItemDetail?loadItem=CN00117. He sighted down this alongside the bit and brace when boring the holes for the stool legs so they would all have the same angle.

I don't know why, but this was a major epiphany in my life. Even though I am an engineer by training, I almost never use measurements any more.
If I am setting up a dado on the router (using two passes as you suggest), I use a scrap of the actual plywood as my gauge. Why transfer to a number and back? It takes time and is a source of error (2X the resolution of the measurement device).
For the quasi-DIY subs I am building, I picked up one of these:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96509
I will use it to transfer the dimension for the diameter of the speaker and adjust my router circle jig to match the calipers, there is no need to ever read the dimension.
Historically, there was little need for measurement devices in manufactring until industrialization mandated that components fabricated at one location fit components from another location.

Next project, give this a little thought as you are transferring measurements. I'm betting you will find your fits are just that little bit better and much quicker as I have.

 

[lsiberian]

I don't know why, but this was a major epiphany in my life. Even though I am an engineer by training, I almost never use measurements any more.
If I am setting up a dado on the router (using two passes as you suggest), I use a scrap of the actual plywood as my gauge. Why transfer to a number and back? It takes time and is a source of error (2X the resolution of the mNext project, give this a little thought as you are transferring measurements. I'm betting you will find your fits are just that little bit better and much quicker as I have.

That makes too much sense. It must be the devil I tell you.

 

[highfigh]

That makes too much sense. It must be the devil I tell you.

I got an e-mail from Rockler- they're having a big sale.

 

[highfigh]

Instead of "measure twice, cut once", my technique was "measure and adjust for 30 minutes, cut for 10 seconds" because I am very detail oriented.
This changed when I watched a woodworker from "the old country".

I wish I could share the actual experience with you, but I once went to a WW demonstration where they brought a guy in from Sweden to make a stool in 2.5 hours using no power tools.
Working fast using only had tools was very interesting, but the thing that really stuck with me was that he not once read a measurement off of a scale! He did have comparative or transfer devices, such as a simple divider or bevel such as:
http://www.woodworkingshop.com/cgi-bin/549F2F57/mac/additmdtl.mac/showItemDetail?loadItem=CN00117. He sighted down this alongside the bit and brace when boring the holes for the stool legs so they would all have the same angle.

I don't know why, but this was a major epiphany in my life. Even though I am an engineer by training, I almost never use measurements any more.
If I am setting up a dado on the router (using two passes as you suggest), I use a scrap of the actual plywood as my gauge. Why transfer to a number and back? It takes time and is a source of error (2X the resolution of the measurement device).
For the quasi-DIY subs I am building, I picked up one of these:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96509
I will use it to transfer the dimension for the diameter of the speaker and adjust my router circle jig to match the calipers, there is no need to ever read the dimension.
Historically, there was little need for measurement devices in manufactring until industrialization mandated that components fabricated at one location fit components from another location.

Next project, give this a little thought as you are transferring measurements. I'm betting you will find your fits are just that little bit better and much quicker as I have.

That's how it was done. Even making a piece that needs to fit in a particular opening can be made with a story stick and either Rockler, WoodCraft or Lee Valley sells the hardware for this. The only thing needed is two pieces of wood.

I picked up a bevel very similar to the one in the link at an antique store, along with an old Stanley 6C handplane. The difference is that mine needed some cleanup and a bit of finish. It doesn't have the brass inlay at the middle but the ends are brass, the body is Brazilian Rosewood and the blade still looks good. If I decide to restore that, I'll get some bluing from a gun shop since that's what was used originally.

If you plan to do more with 'handraulics', go and scour the antique stores, flea markets and estate/rummage sales. The bargains are out there. Make sure to find out what the going prices are, though. ebay is a good source for completed auctions. You may even find something really valuable, like a compass plane. These go for over $1000 if it's in really nice condition. I found a wooden moulding plane from the late 1700s and a rabbet plane from the early 1800s for about $50 around 20 years ago and with the economy the way it is, this may be a good time to look for tools.

FYI for anyone who makes ANYTHING using tools and hardware- Lee Valley is an exceptional resource, they ship incredibly fast and their customer service is outstanding. The Canadians here probably know this already but the rest should. I needed brushed stainless door pulls for my kitchen cabinets and found that I really liked one of the ones at Home Depot. The only problem was they cost $29.95 each. Lee Valley had them for $3.95 each and they are the same- I took one to HD and compared them.

 

[jinjuku]

Found an interesting way to fix...

I am sure I gleeped this from somewhere. I had a side panel that was just 5/16ths of an inch too long (I HATE IMPERIAL MEASUREMENTS).

With the particular pieces being 40inchs long my table say fence runs out at 30. So I grabbed a piece that was correct and used clamping to the miter gauge. I lined the correct piece up to the blade and lined up the other end with each other to figure out my offset. After that it was simply push it through. It was real easy.

 

[GO-NAD!]

That's how it was done. Even making a piece that needs to fit in a particular opening can be made with a story stick and either Rockler, WoodCraft or Lee Valley sells the hardware for this. The only thing needed is two pieces of wood.

I picked up a bevel very similar to the one in the link at an antique store, along with an old Stanley 6C handplane. The difference is that mine needed some cleanup and a bit of finish. It doesn't have the brass inlay at the middle but the ends are brass, the body is Brazilian Rosewood and the blade still looks good. If I decide to restore that, I'll get some bluing from a gun shop since that's what was used originally.

If you plan to do more with 'handraulics', go and scour the antique stores, flea markets and estate/rummage sales. The bargains are out there. Make sure to find out what the going prices are, though. ebay is a good source for completed auctions. You may even find something really valuable, like a compass plane. These go for over $1000 if it's in really nice condition. I found a wooden moulding plane from the late 1700s and a rabbet plane from the early 1800s for about $50 around 20 years ago and with the economy the way it is, this may be a good time to look for tools.

FYI for anyone who makes ANYTHING using tools and hardware- Lee Valley is an exceptional resource, they ship incredibly fast and their customer service is outstanding. The Canadians here probably know this already but the rest should. I needed brushed stainless door pulls for my kitchen cabinets and found that I really liked one of the ones at Home Depot. The only problem was they cost $29.95 each. Lee Valley had them for $3.95 each and they are the same- I took one to HD and compared them.

I can testify to Lee Valley being a great source. We have a local store and I love to go there every once in a while to just browse. Their "Veritas" line of hand tools are of outstanding quality. It's a woodworkers paradise!

As for the b*****ing about the imperial system - I hear ya! Up here it's even worse. We have mixture of both systems. Essentially, construction materials are in imperial increments. Pretty much everything else is metric. The economies of our two economies are so intertwined, that we will never be able to completely convert until the US does.

 

[lsiberian]

I am sure I gleeped this from somewhere. I had a side panel that was just 5/16ths of an inch too long (I HATE IMPERIAL MEASUREMENTS).

With the particular pieces being 40inchs long my table say fence runs out at 30. So I grabbed a piece that was correct and used clamping to the miter gauge. I lined the correct piece up to the blade and lined up the other end with each other to figure out my offset. After that it was simply push it through. It was real easy.

Wow you move fast.