Denon AVP-A1HDCI / POA-A1HDCI Review Support Thread

[gene]

Firmware upgrades are planned on the AVP this summer. That is all I am allowed to share at this point. Hang tight!

 

[Spizz]

Firmware upgrades are planned on the AVP this summer. That is all I am allowed to share at this point. Hang tight!

Great news Gene. Do you know if there will also be a hardware upgrade to change the HDMI ports from 1.3 to 1.4 or can this also be done via firmware?

 

[jomark911]

At the present we don't need 1.4 since it has the same bandwidth with 1.3.
The main differences are the return audio signal from tv and the ethernet which is integrated in the 1.4.But 1.4 without hardware is imposible.If you are interested in 3d it can well be passed through the hdmi 1,3. We will see.

 

[AboutTreeFiddy]

You can add me to the ranks of AVP owners (soon to be). I just ordered one this past weekend and hoping it have it in 2-3 weeks. I'm really looking forward to getting it and setting it up. I've had a 3808 in the past so hopefully the setup shouldn't be too much more involved.

One question I have concerns the sub setup. I run a 6.2 system (with twin subs obviously) and am wondering what the recommended configuration would be. On everything I've owned in the past I only had 1 sub out so I would just level match the subs individually the best I could with a RS meter then hook them together and run them as s single unit with the eq software in the receiver or pre/pro. Should I continue to do this with the AVP or is it better to hook them up individually and let Audyssey calibrate them as 2 individual subs?

 

[Bradh]

You can add me to the ranks of AVP owners (soon to be). I just ordered one this past weekend and hoping it have it in 2-3 weeks. I'm really looking forward to getting it and setting it up. I've had a 3808 in the past so hopefully the setup shouldn't be too much more involved.

One question I have concerns the sub setup. I run a 6.2 system (with twin subs obviously) and am wondering what the recommended configuration would be. On everything I've owned in the past I only had 1 sub out so I would just level match the subs individually the best I could with a RS meter then hook them together and run them as s single unit with the eq software in the receiver or pre/pro. Should I continue to do this with the AVP or is it better to hook them up individually and let Audyssey calibrate them as 2 individual subs?

Congrats on the AVP you will love it. Here is how I set my 2 subs up. There are three sub outs on the AVP, us the L & R sub outs. Then use your RS meter with the internal test tone to match the level. (Chris from Audyssey recommends using L/R mixed for the best results when using 2 subs and Audyssey.). When you run Ausyssey it will level match the subs and calibrate them separately. There is a stereo L/R option. I used the mixed based on Chris (Audyssey) recommendation, and it sounds great.

Brad

 

[gene]

You can add me to the ranks of AVP owners (soon to be). I just ordered one this past weekend and hoping it have it in 2-3 weeks. I'm really looking forward to getting it and setting it up. I've had a 3808 in the past so hopefully the setup shouldn't be too much more involved.

One question I have concerns the sub setup. I run a 6.2 system (with twin subs obviously) and am wondering what the recommended configuration would be. On everything I've owned in the past I only had 1 sub out so I would just level match the subs individually the best I could with a RS meter then hook them together and run them as s single unit with the eq software in the receiver or pre/pro. Should I continue to do this with the AVP or is it better to hook them up individually and let Audyssey calibrate them as 2 individual subs?

I have an article coming out on this topic shortly but to give you the quick answer:
1. assign both subs as sub 1
2. place each sub equadistant from the listening area
3. level match both subs
4. Apply Audyssey

Audyssey and most room correction systems, works best when it applies a single correction curve to all of the subs in your system simultaneously.

Congrats on the AVP you will love it. Here is how I set my 2 subs up. There are three sub outs on the AVP, us the L & R sub outs. Then use your RS meter with the internal test tone to match the level. (Chris from Audyssey recommends using L/R mixed for the best results when using 2 subs and Audyssey.). When you run Ausyssey it will level match the subs and calibrate them separately. There is a stereo L/R option. I used the mixed based on Chris (Audyssey) recommendation, and it sounds great.

Brad

That option can work especially since both subs are playing the identical mono signal but I've found a single correction works the best which is how the Audyssey standalone unit operates. I convinced Chris of this when he was at my place and thus their sub cal box calibrates each sub, distance, level, then provides a single correction to both.

Great news Gene. Do you know if there will also be a hardware upgrade to change the HDMI ports from 1.3 to 1.4 or can this also be done via firmware?

HDMI 1.4 requires a hardware upgrade which may be in the pipeline... Stay tuned...

 

[Bradh]

That option can work especially since both subs are playing the identical mono signal but I've found a single correction works the best which is how the Audyssey standalone unit operates. I convinced Chris of this when he was at my place and thus their sub cal box calibrates each sub, distance, level, then provides a single correction to both.

Gene

Is the above how the AVP is working when subs are set to mixed.

Thanks
Brad

 

[gene]

Is the above how the AVP is working when subs are set to mixed.

Thanks
Brad

No b/c I set the processor to one sub but assigned the other 2 sub outs as sub 1. This is the only way I could get Audyssey to run its calibration for all of my subs at the same time. I asked Denon to offer a summed sub calibration mode that would allow users to do this via all sub outs so you can still retain independent channel trims and delay settings. This will be huge if they do it.

 

[Bradh]

No b/c I set the processor to one sub but assigned the other 2 sub outs as sub 1. This is the only way I could get Audyssey to run its calibration for all of my subs at the same time. I asked Denon to offer a summed sub calibration mode that would allow users to do this via all sub outs so you can still retain independent channel trims and delay settings. This will be huge if they do it.

I didnt know you could assign subs that way. Hopefully Denon will offer the sub calibration mode you are talking about down the road in one of there firmware updates.

Thanks
Brad

 

[gene]

I didnt know you could assign subs that way. Hopefully Denon will offer the sub calibration mode you are talking about down the road in one of there firmware updates.

Thanks
Brad

Me neither. I figured out that trick on the fly. Audyssey kept giving me a huge suckout around 40-60Hz when it ran correction individually for each of my subs so I needed a clever way to assign all subs as the same while still being able to use all the the outputs to connect to my various subs. Tricking 2 of my subs to have more distance in the delay setting was a bit harder however which I will discuss in the article I am writing.

 

[Franin]

I didnt know you could assign subs that way. Hopefully Denon will offer the sub calibration mode you are talking about down the road in one of there firmware updates.

Thanks
Brad

Ive had mine like that quite awhile. You can assign 3 sub individually to work as one.

 

[jomark911]

Yeah guys i did it also , assigning sub 2 as sub 1 and will try to see how audyssey sets them , since they 'll be firing simultaneously. I think it does the trick and sounds better this way.

 

[Bradh]

Gene and others I need some amp advice.

I have the upgrade bug, after auditioning speakers all day Thursday. I will be replacing my Paradigm Active Ref speakers. I listened to Def-tech (STS, BP 7001) Martin Logan (Source was the only model they setup) Paradigm Studio 100v5, Sig 8, Wilson Audio Sophia's, Thiel CS 1.6, 2.4 and the 3.7's.

After 6 plus hours of listening the winner was Thiel CS 2.4's then Paradigm Sig 8's. The S8's were not setup as good as the 2.4's, so I will go back and audition them in the same room just make sure the CS 2.4's are the winners.

If I pick the Thiels it will be CS 2.4's front, MCS 1 center, sides and rear would be MCS 1, SCS4's or powerpoints 1.2 in that order.

If Paradigm wins it will be the Sig 8's front, Sig C5 center, sides Sig ADP3 and, Sig 2's for the back.

For subs I will use my duel SVS Ultra 13's.

I ask this question here because I will need amps to go with my AVP.

It looks like Emotiva amp are the best bag for the buck for all the reviews.

I can get the POA for a great price (my son in law is Denon dealer).

It sounds like from Gene's reviews both the Denon and Emotiva would handle the Thiel's just fine. I am open to other suggestions. B&K ect.

If I would get the POA I would bridge the front 3 channels.

With the Emotiva, I would use some combination of XPA-2 and 5 amps or maybe even XPA-1's for the front channels.

My room is 13.6 x 21.8 x 8 approx 2400 sq ft.

Thanks in advance.

Brad

 

[gene]

Gene and others I need some amp advice.

I have the upgrade bug, after auditioning speakers all day Thursday. I will be replacing my Paradigm Active Ref speakers. I listened to Def-tech (STS, BP 7001) Martin Logan (Source was the only model they setup) Paradigm Studio 100v5, Sig 8, Wilson Audio Sophia's, Thiel CS 1.6, 2.4 and the 3.7's.

After 6 plus hours of listening the winner was Thiel CS 2.4's then Paradigm Sig 8's. The S8's were not setup as good as the 2.4's, so I will go back and audition them in the same room just make sure the CS 2.4's are the winners.

If I pick the Thiels it will be CS 2.4's front, MCS 1 center, sides and rear would be MCS 1, SCS4's or powerpoints 1.2 in that order.

If Paradigm wins it will be the Sig 8's front, Sig C5 center, sides Sig ADP3 and, Sig 2's for the back.

For subs I will use my duel SVS Ultra 13's.

I ask this question here because I will need amps to go with my AVP.

It looks like Emotiva amp are the best bag for the buck for all the reviews.

I can get the POA for a great price (my son in law is Denon dealer).

It sounds like from Gene's reviews both the Denon and Emotiva would handle the Thiel's just fine. I am open to other suggestions. B&K ect.

If I would get the POA I would bridge the front 3 channels.

With the Emotiva, I would use some combination of XPA-2 and 5 amps or maybe even XPA-1's for the front channels.

My room is 13.6 x 21.8 x 8 approx 2400 sq ft.

Thanks in advance.

Brad

The Emo XPA series amps are an absolute steal. However when I A/B'ed the XPA-2 with the POA-A1 I felt the latter was a tad more refined sounding. This of course was my subjective opinion. Given the price difference, I'd go all Emo but if you can get a good deal on the Denon, run with it. I bridge the front 3 speakers in my system and it provides plenty of power.


In the price range you are looking at speakers, I'd stongly encourage you to audition a pair of these if you can:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/rbh-8300ser

Good luck.

 

[Bradh]

The Emo XPA series amps are an absolute steal. However when I A/B'ed the XPA-2 with the POA-A1 I felt the latter was a tad more refined sounding. This of course was my subjective opinion. Given the price difference, I'd go all Emo but if you can get a good deal on the Denon, run with it. I bridge the front 3 speakers in my system and it provides plenty of power.


In the price range you are looking at speakers, I'd stongly encourage you to audition a pair of these if you can:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/rbh-8300ser

Good luck.

Thanks Gene. Nice review on the 8300's, there are big speakers.

It looks like there is a RBH dealer in Indy. I will call them and see if they have the 8300's setup for demo. I can stop by and listen when I go back and audition the Sig 8's and CS 2.4's side by side.

I will make sure the speakers I pick are the right ones for me, after all I will be living with them for a long time. On a plus note, the shop with Sig 8's and 2.4's will let me bring them home for a listen.


Which Emo XPA amps would be comparable to the POA, in a 7 channel configuration.

Brad

 

[gene]

Thanks Gene. Nice review on the 8300's, there are big speakers.

It looks like there is a RBH dealer in Indy. I will call them and see if they have the 8300's setup for demo. I can stop by and listen when I go back and audition the Sig 8's and CS 2.4's side by side.

I will make sure the speakers I pick are the right ones for me, after all I will be living with them for a long time. On a plus note, the shop with Sig 8's and 2.4's will let me bring them home for a listen.


Which Emo XPA amps would be comparable to the POA, in a 7 channel configuration.

Brad

If those RBH Towers are too big, you may want to consider their 661-SE/Rs across the front channels and the 66-SE for the side channels and 61-SE/R's for the back channels or SI-760 inwalls.

Here is a review I did of such a system:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/rbh-sound-signature-se-r

Make sure you demo SE/R versions with Status Acoustics Driver upgrades. There is quite a difference between SE and SE/R versions that I am sure you will appreciate.

To get 7 Channels via Emotiva, I'd suggest an XPA-2 for the front channels and an XPA-5 for the rest. If you want to go crazy you can get two XPA-1s for the front channels and an XPA-5 for the other channels.

 

[rmk]

I was referenced to this thread from another Forum. I found the section on Audyssey and specifically, the "Volume Scaling Issue" interesting. I have the opposite problem. My Integra DHC-80.1 test tones register approx 80db on an SLP meter with or without Audyssey engaged and I cannot apply sufficient cuts to the LCR levels to reach 75db on the test tones. I have both digital and analog SPL meters and both give approx the same results. I end up using 80db as my test tone level thereby making -5MV on my Integra actual reference level.

The only relevance here is that apparently Audyssey does not limit headroom with my Integra processor. Unlike Audioholics experience with the Denon, my system will produce SPL well beyond what my room (and my ears) can handle. It is just interesting to me that the Integra test tones play at 80db rather than the 75db mentioned in the Integra User Manual. I attribute this to the 101db efficiency of my JRT T12HT's. I have had conversations with both Integra and Audyssey and neither has an explanation for my test tone SPL irregularity.

 

[gene]

I was referenced to this thread from another Forum. I found the section on Audyssey and specifically, the "Volume Scaling Issue" interesting. I have the opposite problem. My Integra DHC-80.1 test tones register approx 80db on an SLP meter with or without Audyssey engaged and I cannot apply sufficient cuts to the LCR levels to reach 75db on the test tones. I have both digital and analog SPL meters and both give approx the same results. I end up using 80db as my test tone level thereby making -5MV on my Integra actual reference level.

The only relevance here is that apparently Audyssey does not limit headroom with my Integra processor. Unlike Audioholics experience with the Denon, my system will produce SPL well beyond what my room (and my ears) can handle. It is just interesting to me that the Integra test tones play at 80db rather than the 75db mentioned in the Integra User Manual. I attribute this to the 101db efficiency of my JRT T12HT's. I have had conversations with both Integra and Audyssey and neither has an explanation for my test tone SPL irregularity.

The test tone calibration level and the volume scaling issue I discovered are not related whatsoever. If you want to calibrate at 75dB simply lower the master volume.

As for volume scaling, it only occurred on HD DVD's that were recorded below -20dBFs and only when I had Audyssey and PLIIx engaged.

Integra suffers the same volume scaling issue with thier latest processors. The only difference is they allow you to continue increasing the volume level, despite it not getting any louder.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

When Denon comes out with the HDMI v1.4, will you guys just ship the AVP-A1HDCI back to Denon for a retrofit @ a certain cost like $1K?

Or will that even be possible?

 

[gene]

I was referenced to this thread from another Forum. I found the section on Audyssey and specifically, the "Volume Scaling Issue" interesting. I have the opposite problem. My Integra DHC-80.1 test tones register approx 80db on an SLP meter with or without Audyssey engaged and I cannot apply sufficient cuts to the LCR levels to reach 75db on the test tones. I have both digital and analog SPL meters and both give approx the same results. I end up using 80db as my test tone level thereby making -5MV on my Integra actual reference level.

The only relevance here is that apparently Audyssey does not limit headroom with my Integra processor. Unlike Audioholics experience with the Denon, my system will produce SPL well beyond what my room (and my ears) can handle. It is just interesting to me that the Integra test tones play at 80db rather than the 75db mentioned in the Integra User Manual. I attribute this to the 101db efficiency of my JRT T12HT's. I have had conversations with both Integra and Audyssey and neither has an explanation for my test tone SPL irregularity.

You're still missing the point. The Volume scaling issue I mentioned exists on virtually all products using Audyssey, THX, PLIIx, etc. It drops the max available volume level when all processes are engaged. The Integra simply doesn't show the limitation it just limits max volume while still allowing you to increase it. In most circumstances this wont be noticed unless you are listening to sources recorded at very low levels like I mentioned in my review. It also depends on the efficiency of your speakers, the size of the room and the levels you prefer to listen at.

Regarding your calibration issue:
If I understand your problem correctly, when you hit the "test tone" button the SPL you measure is 80dB instead of 75dB for each speaker. If that is the case its likely b/c the high sensitivity of your speakers. The simple solution after you balance out all of your channels is to lower the master volume until you read 75dB for all of your speakers then note the master volume level so you can set it to that when playing back movies.