Volume on Onkyo 805

[griffinconst]

My 805 seems to top out in the volume way before the meter does. It goes louder in Direct mode than stereo and all the movie type modes.
I have the volume limit set to off. Any ideas?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Is it set to 4 Ohm speaker mode? What speakers your 805 driving?

 

[jostenmeat]

Well, I've never used direct yet on the 805, but that defeats bass mgmt? Perhaps the added bass frequencies with room gain at the LP results in a greater measurement? I will also assume direct defeats Audyssey processing, so if there were filters in place that were cutting down many ringing tones, perhaps that may have had some effect, though I am assuming that you are doing these comparisons with Audyssey defeated. Otherwise, I really have no idea, just blurting out loud.

 

[sptrout]

Not much help, but I can confirm that when in the "Direct" Mode all post decoding digital processing is bypassed, including bass management & Audyssey. How does the "Pure" Mode sound? In addition to what Direct does, Pure also turns-off the display & the video processor.

 

[griffinconst]

Is it set to 4 Ohm speaker mode? What speakers your 805 driving?

I'm runnin Athena AS F2's. They're an easy load. I didn't set it to 4ohm setting but I'll check that. Would that cut the power even if the speaker was 8ohms?

 

[griffinconst]

Well, I've never used direct yet on the 805, but that defeats bass mgmt? Perhaps the added bass frequencies with room gain at the LP results in a greater measurement? I will also assume direct defeats Audyssey processing, so if there were filters in place that were cutting down many ringing tones, perhaps that may have had some effect, though I am assuming that you are doing these comparisons with Audyssey defeated. Otherwise, I really have no idea, just blurting out loud.

Yeah, it defeats everything so the sub is off when in that mode. What you say about cutting down ringing is interesting. The long wall IS all windows. Hmm. I'll try turning audyssey off. Good call!

 

[jostenmeat]

I'm runnin Athena AS F2's. They're an easy load. I didn't set it to 4ohm setting but I'll check that. Would that cut the power even if the speaker was 8ohms?

It puts a limit on the amount of current that can be drawn, but I don't see how this is relevant, because it's not like you are switching this ohm setting when going between direct and other modes . . .

What do you think of my previous post? Wouldn't the speakers in fact be louder overall if they were playing full-range as opposed to only above, say, 80hz?

 

[griffinconst]

Not much help, but I can confirm that when in the "Direct" Mode all post decoding digital processing is bypassed, including bass management & Audyssey. How does the "Pure" Mode sound? In addition to what Direct does, Pure also turns-off the display & the video processor.

Same situation with "Pure". These are all good comments guys. I'll bipass audyssey and see if it is the cause. After audyssey sets things up, can I manually adjust and will it stay or does it go back to audyssey settings when turned off?

 

[griffinconst]

It puts a limit on the amount of current that can be drawn, but I don't see how this is relevant, because it's not like you are switching this ohm setting when going between direct and other modes . . .

What do you think of my previous post? Wouldn't the speakers in fact be louder overall if they were playing full-range as opposed to only above, say, 80hz?

I agree about the ohm question, it wouldn't change from mode to mode.
The second part is a thought but the sub is on in those other modes. Wouldn't that be as loud or even louder? Am I backwards on this? FYI, I roll the mains off at 50hz. The Athena's go into the mid or upper 30hz range.

 

[jostenmeat]

I agree about the ohm question, it wouldn't change from mode to mode.
The second part is a thought but the sub is on in those other modes. Wouldn't that be as loud or even louder? Am I backwards on this? FYI, I roll the mains off at 50hz. The Athena's go into the mid or upper 30hz range.

Well let's see. Audyssey applies who knows how many filters to the sub. It will not necessarily apply so many filters to your mains below a certain frequency, whatever Audyssey detected the F3 to be. Hmmm.

With the above in mind, depending how different your sub placement is from the mains, and especially if the mains are close to the corners (multiple boundaries), maybe the room gain with the bass derived there could make the difference.

I don't quite understand your question that was just posed to sptrout. If, for any reason (and tell me I'm way off here), that this investigation comes from wanting more balanced volumes as you switch from source to source, you can adjust IntelliVolume. This allows you to adjust the input level so that your different sources will be more similar in volume. Page 94 of your manual.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I'm runnin Athena AS F2's. They're an easy load. I didn't set it to 4ohm setting but I'll check that. Would that cut the power even if the speaker was 8ohms?

Onkyo 805 should be set for 6ohms for 6-8ohm speakers. If you set it to 4 ohm its hard-limits amp to 30 Watt/Chan
Are they really "Sensitivity: 93dB. Power handling: 250Wpc" ?? If so , with 805 you should be near deaf (130db +) at 0db volume...
Check if you still have warranty on the unit.... Sounds like hardware issue

 

[griffinconst]

Onkyo 805 should be set for 6ohms for 6-8ohm speakers. If you set it to 4 ohm its hard-limits amp to 30 Watt/Chan
Are they really "Sensitivity: 93dB. Power handling: 250Wpc" ?? If so , with 805 you should be near deaf (130db +) at 0db volume...
Check if you still have warranty on the unit.... Sounds like hardware issue

What'd you say?

 

[griffinconst]

Well let's see. Audyssey applies who knows how many filters to the sub. It will not necessarily apply so many filters to your mains below a certain frequency, whatever Audyssey detected the F3 to be. Hmmm.

With the above in mind, depending how different your sub placement is from the mains, and especially if the mains are close to the corners (multiple boundaries), maybe the room gain with the bass derived there could make the difference.

I don't quite understand your question that was just posed to sptrout. If, for any reason (and tell me I'm way off here), that this investigation comes from wanting more balanced volumes as you switch from source to source, you can adjust IntelliVolume. This allows you to adjust the input level so that your different sources will be more similar in volume. Page 94 of your manual.

The sub is near the R main and none are near corners.
On your second point, not really. I want it to be LOUD in stereo mode. Don't get me wrong, it goes loud but it will get much louder in Direct or Pure.
I don't want to have to switch modes. I want the sub on and listen in stereo mode. I want it, I want it, I want it.

 

[TLS Guy]

Any equalizer will lower average spl. Remember a 3 db boost at any frequency. and that is a small boost, will double the power demands at that frequency.

If cuts are applied it amounts to boosting the other frequencies if you think about it.

So there is no substitute for really good speakers that do not require Eq.

 

[sptrout]

So there is no substitute for really good speakers that do not require Eq.

It has always been my understanding that the reason for EQ in general, and especially for Audyssey, is to help correct "room" issues not to try to make-up for any issues that may exist in the audio system chain (from source though the speakers). Unless a room is has been well treated, which most of us cannot do for a host of reasons, then there almost certainly will be room problems in the bass region that EQ will try to correct. The advantage that Audyssey brings is that it is very high resolution and can be use with very good results, by most users, without any special EQ knowledge or test equipment.

 

[sptrout]

Same situation with "Pure". These are all good comments guys. I'll bipass audyssey and see if it is the cause. After audyssey sets things up, can I manually adjust and will it stay or does it go back to audyssey settings when turned off?

You may have already tried this by now, but, yes, you can turn-off Audyssey and leave the 8-band EQ (I think that was the number) flat and see if this changes anything. You can then go back and turn Audyssey back-on afterwards without rerunning it.

 

[TLS Guy]

It has always been my understanding that the reason for EQ in general, and especially for Audyssey, is to help correct "room" issues not to try to make-up for any issues that may exist in the audio system chain (from source though the speakers). Unless a room is has been well treated, which most of us cannot do for a host of reasons, then there almost certainly will be room problems in the bass region that EQ will try to correct. The advantage that Audyssey brings is that it is very high resolution and can be use with very good results, by most users, without any special EQ knowledge or test equipment.

Audyssey can't tell room from speaker problems and will try and correct both.

What I found when the designer showed it to me you can not make it Eq the bass only, which is where the room effects lie. I think that is a significant miss step.

 

[sptrout]

Audyssey can't tell room from speaker problems and will try and correct both.

What I found when the designer showed it to me you can not make it Eq the bass only, which is where the room effects lie. I think that is a significant miss step.

My apologies to the OP for borrowing this thread.....

I agree that Audyssey, or any EQ, system cannot tell what is causing any detected frequency response problems; that is what the listener needs figure out early in the setup process. Unfortunately, this is very difficult to do for the great majority of HT users.

That said, I believe that the majority of the problems most users encounter are in the low bass area (that sure is what is asked about the most on the HT Boards). Room acoustics, speaker capabilities and placement (especially the subwoofer), are all big players here. Before any EQ is applied it is always best to optimize the system to correct these possible problems to the extent that is possible based on a user's specific equipment and room restrictions. Once this is finished then Audyssey can finish the optimization process to help produce the best bass response that is possible within the restrictions just mentioned.

As you mentioned, Audyssey covers the entire band, however by far, most Audyssey "horsepower/resolution" is reserved for 300Hz and below. I think in most cases (if I remember correctly from Chris' comments over the pass few years), Audyssey has decreasing impact on frequencies as you go up the audio band. My guess is that most typical users would not notice any difference especially if they usually apply one of the post-decoding algorithms (THX, etc.), which all effect the frequency response to some degree or another.

I understand that your experience with Audyssey is different, but your equipment is far better than the great majority of HT systems and I would hazard a guess that you have treated your room also, so any EQ system probably has a negative effect on your system. For the rest of us, Audyssey provides a powerful tool that was never available to us before. Besides, if Audyssey has a negative effect, either real or perceived, then they can always just turn it off.

 

[TLS Guy]

My apologies to the OP for borrowing this thread.....

I agree that Audyssey, or any EQ, system cannot tell what is causing any detected frequency response problems; that is what the listener needs figure out early in the setup process. Unfortunately, this is very difficult to do for the great majority of HT users.

That said, I believe that the majority of the problems most users encounter are in the low bass area (that sure is what is asked about the most on the HT Boards). Room acoustics, speaker capabilities and placement (especially the subwoofer), are all big players here. Before any EQ is applied it is always best to optimize the system to correct these possible problems to the extent that is possible based on a user's specific equipment and room restrictions. Once this is finished then Audyssey can finish the optimization process to help produce the best bass response that is possible within the restrictions just mentioned.

As you mentioned, Audyssey covers the entire band, however by far, most Audyssey "horsepower/resolution" is reserved for 300Hz and below. I think in most cases (if I remember correctly from Chris' comments over the pass few years), Audyssey has decreasing impact on frequencies as you go up the audio band. My guess is that most typical users would not notice any difference especially if they usually apply one of the post-decoding algorithms (THX, etc.), which all effect the frequency response to some degree or another.

I understand that your experience with Audyssey is different, but your equipment is far better than the great majority of HT systems and I would hazard a guess that you have treated your room also, so any EQ system probably has a negative effect on your system. For the rest of us, Audyssey provides a powerful tool that was never available to us before. Besides, if Audyssey has a negative effect, either real or perceived, then they can always just turn it off.

I don't think you have borrowed the thread. People totally fail to calculate the power consumed applying Eq, so this is very germane to the OP's issue and post.

I do not own any auto Eq programs. My room is only treated is so far as dimensions and finish materials are concerned. Luckily the room only has a slight 3 to 4 db rise at 50 Hz. Since the speakers are low Qtc critically damped this room mode does not get out of hand and just adds a little warmth. The room actually sounds very pleasant and does a good job of reproducing acoustic spaces I'm familiar with.

My only experience of Audyssey is from a demonstration by the designer at SOTA.

I used for evaluation a well recorded Hyperion disc of Rameau key board suites played by Angela Hewitt on an Italian Fazoli piano.

The speakers were these, which gave a reasonable account of themselves.

The Audyssey system really altered the sound of the piano in a negative way. I had the impression the bass has been slightly improved. We could only get acceptable results setting the system manually. So this system is playing loose and fast with frequencies out of the bass range.

So I was unconvinced that this program is unsuitable for critical listening.

I think this is why high end systems do not use these programs. I think anyone contemplating using these systems should critically evaluate their systems with and without these types of programs

 

[sptrout]

Thanks TLS Guy for your thoughts and comments! I do not know why it took me so long, but I took a look at your HT pictures that you have posted at Smugmug. All I can say is WOW. Very beautiful room; I am so jealous!

I am not so lucky in that I do not have a dedicated HT room, but have to use my living room. It is a huge room by most standards, easily +5,500 cubic feet with the entire right side open to another 4,000 cubic feet of room. Needless to say, I have little to no control of the room(s) acoustics so Audyssey made my life a lot easier when I moved from a Denon 3300 to my current 805.

Thanks again,
Steve