Attack of the Clone Amplifiers

[highfigh]

Very cool (ICE) review Gene.

Class D amplifiers seem appropriate for powering subwoofers.
But is it sufficient enough, even if they are very efficient, to be used as the main power for all the frequencies up to SACD limits?

Are they good enough for 96 or 192khz, as a faithful reproduction from certain audio formats?

Is the Pioneer Elite SC-07 (with class D, ICE amp modules) lacking when ask to deliver into 4ohm loads?

Bob

96K and 192K are sampling rates, not what goes through the power amp.

 

[bobs]

Hi,
I'm, new here, so happy new year.
I like this site, since you guys actually do measurements while other only write about "looks" and use audiophile blabber. However, no measurements for ICEPower yet - didn't Dennis from D-Sonic offer a pair to test?

I'm looking for some affordable multi channel amplification for some time now. The ICEPower based amps seem to be great - lot's of power that is affordable. You critique made me think and research.

As for the quality of the amplification and the usable power, a very well known brand is now using the modules in their bigger active loudspeakers.

Starting with the ME800K. In there they use two 500 Watt and two 250 Watt modules.

It's so stupid that I can't post links, so simply use Google to find the details about these speakers.

This is not a "audiophile" company, their main business is producing monitors for broadcast companies and studios. I don't own any of their products (more of a PMC fan) but these are very well constructed and sound really good.

The developer also said during a test for these monsters that there no problem with the "Class-D" sound if you do not use these amps to their limit. They actually have this kind of sound pressure on the 800K:

≥ 120dB (IEC 268-1)
126 dB peak / r=1m

I would really like to see a Audioholics test with measurements and real-world use of ICEPower modules. At the moment this all seems to a lot of guess work and critique not fed by facts. Since the Emotiva XPR-7 is on the horizon, I'd like to make a decision based on facts .

 

[bandphan]

Hi,
I'm, new here, so happy new year.
I like this site, since you guys actually do measurements while other only write about "looks" and use audiophile blabber. However, no measurements for ICEPower yet - didn't Dennis from D-Sonic offer a pair to test?

I'm looking for some affordable multi channel amplification for some time now. The ICEPower based amps seem to be great - lot's of power that is affordable. You critique made me think and research.

As for the quality of the amplification and the usable power, a very well known brand is now using the modules in their bigger active loudspeakers.

Starting with the ME800K. In there they use two 500 Watt and two 250 Watt modules.

It's so stupid that I can't post links, so simply use Google to find the details about these speakers.

This is not a "audiophile" company, their main business is producing monitors for broadcast companies and studios. I don't own any of their products (more of a PMC fan) but these are very well constructed and sound really good.

The developer also said during a test for these monsters that there no problem with the "Class-D" sound if you do not use these amps to their limit. They actually have this kind of sound pressure on the 800K:

≥ 120dB (IEC 268-1)
126 dB peak / r=1m

I would really like to see a Audioholics test with measurements and real-world use of ICEPower modules. At the moment this all seems to a lot of guess work and critique not fed by facts. Since the Emotiva XPR-7 is on the horizon, I'd like to make a decision based on facts .

search a lil further and you will see the test

 

[bobs]

search a lil further and you will see the test

There is a test for the Seymour AV Ice Block but this one has no measurements. There is a link to the hificritic PDF.

The document is a joke. Kiesler, the maker of the Geithain speakers has absolute hearing, they performed blind tests to make sure the amps perform.

A while ago, a Austrian forum had a blind test where NO one could hear a difference between amps.
They even invited "gold ears" - they all failed. That's why I consider statements not based on facts such as written on page 15 on the hificritic PDF a joke.

Dr. Anselm Goertz did an extensive test with 60 amps, you could only hear differences if the amp goes into clipping:
Google for daga00et.pdf - but it's in German
Goertz knows what he is talking about - he writes a lot of tests for Pro Audio journals. No audiophile mumbo jumbo.

I'd still like to see the makes of this fine portal to dig into the modules. I'd simply would like to see real power output, distortion, then I could make an informed decision.

 

[bandphan]

http://audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/pioneer-sc-07/sc-07-measurements-and-analysis

 

[Seth=L]

I am not sure it is entirely true. There is for example a fairly bad review of the Nuforce reference 9 amp (http://www.10audio.com/nuforce_ref_9v2se.htm)

I have also seen some other bad reviews of other amps, so bad reviews do exist. I do agree there are some good reviews of snake oil as well (sadly).

When a reviewer says something like this...

The Marantz MA-9S2 amplifiers seem to ignore the physical locations or size of the speakers to create whatever size sound image the music requires.

I have trouble believing anything else they have to say.

 

[MidnightSensi]

I'm sure these ICE Powered Amps are nice...

...But I was thinking of getting FIVE of the UGLY Behringer EP4000 amps, Bridge them, and get 4,000 WATTS RMS @ 4 ohms, 20Hz-20kHz, & 1% THD Per Channel...

And then hide them on the very bottom shelf.

Behringer is the worst clone of them all. Their amps, mixers, and basically everything they make is a big copy of something else, even down to the enclosure design. They take a popular design and then mass produce it in China for cheap and re-badge it. They've been sued for it, but its hard to really protect or defend a 'circuit'... especially one built in China.

 

[bobs]

Yep, that's the Pioneer amp with IcePower - however they use different modules. It also seems they did some re-engineering and only one power supply. The clone amps are usually ASP modules where each one has it's own power supply.

Take a look at the Ultimateavmag website, search for IcePower (I still can't post links...). You will find measurements for the Pioneer Elite SC-05, the Pioneer Elite SC-09TX and the Rotel RMB-1077.
It's unclear what modules Pioneer is using on the high end module. It sounds like an "A" type module in the middle category. Probably not as powerful as the 1000ASP one. I still hope Dennis will send a monoblock or two for testing.

 

[I-HATE-SPECS]

Why?

Did it ever occur to anyone on this post to stop worrying about all the charts, numbers and specs on ICE amps and maybe just go listen to your music? First off, all of these ICE maps will sound different to different people. And specs will not tell you how an amp will sound. Not to mention there are so many variables aside from the type of amp you use (cables, room, source, etc.). I am sure that the W4S SX-1000 ICE amps sound better than most of your amps.

 

[GranteedEV]

So the same amp will sound different ?

 

[Stereodude]

So the same amp will sound different ?

It's all dependent on how you align the amp to the earth's magnetic field and the impact of the solar winds.

 

[I-HATE-SPECS]

how do you figure they are all the "same amps"

 

[GranteedEV]

How do you figure cables are a variable?

 

[I-HATE-SPECS]

OMG, wait, you do not think that a power cord or IC sound different?

 

[GranteedEV]

Sorry, I don't have the imagination to imagine differences between two things which scientifically function identically with the audible passband.

Indeed, I'm apparently not an "audiophile". I couldn't for the life of me hear any differences between power cords and interconnects, unless those interconnects have built in resistors or something to reduce transparency and hence fidelity. I don't mess with that sort of low-fi audiophile gear. My audio interests revolve around accurate, hi-fidelity reproduction.

 

[I-HATE-SPECS]

You are being serious... you have never tried a demo (on your own) between different IC's?

 

[I-HATE-SPECS]

Well tell me what kind of accurate "hi fidelity" you own...

 

[dkane360]

OMG, wait, you do not think that a power cord or IC sound different?

Of all the absurdities in the "h-fi" world, power cords making a difference to the sound is truly the most ridiculous.

 

[I-HATE-SPECS]

You guys are really serious?

You either all:

A) Have terrible audio system
B) Are all engineers that love to wack it to specs and graphs
C) Are unwilling to acknowledge that it is even possible (engineers)
D) Have never actually tried a different power cord on your "hi-fi"
E) All of the above

Wow... I guess if a person lives long enough, they will see and hear everything at least once.

 

[Nomo]

Fixed that for ya.

You guys are really serious?

Wow... I guess if a person listens long enough, they will hear anything they want to hear.

Are you for real?
Powercords?
We're talkin' powercords?

Go back to your home planet.