Need to Repair or Replace Midranges of Kappa 7

R

raprice3

Enthusiast
I have a pair of Infinity Kappa 7 speakers that I have had for about 8 years -- I bought them used. The polydome midranges on the speakers are in need of replacing (probably because my 2 year old likes to poke them). There are small cracks on the driver, which causes distortion when the speakers are moderately loud.

Some used midranges show up on Ebay, but from what I can tell, they often have holes or small cracks, and although the sellers say they work fine, I am skeptical.

So, is there anything I can do to repair the drivers? They don't appear to be too brittle. Maybe a special glue or something?

There are a couple of websites that sell replacement drivers, although they are 8 ohm, not 4 ohm like the Kappa:

(I am new and am not allowed to post linkes, so here goes)

www dot speakerex dot com/D75MX.html
www dot speakerrepair dot com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=02-239&Category_Code=

This one looks like it is the same thing, but they don't have very good information.

www dot mark1electronics dot com/mid-range_tweeters.htm#MD-75

So, any ideas? Will any quality midrange suffice? Or am I better off moving on to something else.

Thanks,

Richard
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I have a pair of Infinity Kappa 7 speakers that I have had for about 8 years -- I bought them used. The polydome midranges on the speakers are in need of replacing (probably because my 2 year old likes to poke them). There are small cracks on the driver, which causes distortion when the speakers are moderately loud.

Some used midranges show up on Ebay, but from what I can tell, they often have holes or small cracks, and although the sellers say they work fine, I am skeptical.

So, is there anything I can do to repair the drivers? They don't appear to be too brittle. Maybe a special glue or something?

There are a couple of websites that sell replacement drivers, although they are 8 ohm, not 4 ohm like the Kappa:

(I am new and am not allowed to post linkes, so here goes)

www dot speakerex dot com/D75MX.html
www dot speakerrepair dot com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=02-239&Category_Code=

This one looks like it is the same thing, but they don't have very good information.

www dot mark1electronics dot com/mid-range_tweeters.htm#MD-75

So, any ideas? Will any quality midrange suffice? Or am I better off moving on to something else.

Thanks,

Richard
You have a quandary. It is clearly not possible to repair your drivers. This seems to be a problem with them as you have discovered.

The speaker offered for sale by Speaker Repair, Orange County and Mark I electronics, is the Vifa/Scanspeak Dome midrange. This is a fair to poor driver. The folks at Madisound are not over impressed with it.

This is the driver in question.


Here is the spec sheet.

Now as you say, your speaker is four to six ohm nominal, but we don't know what the impedance of your midrange driver is. The Vifa over its pass band is 7 ohms. The crossover points of your speakers are 800 Hz and 4500 kHz. The top crossover point is pushing it for the Vifa unit. As you can see the frequency response of that unit is less then optimal, as is the off axis response above 4 kHz.

Now if the impedance of that driver is significantly different from your drivers, the crossover points will change and the crossover of your speakers need modifying.

The other issue is sensitivity. Your speaker have a sensitivity of 88 db 1 watt 1 meter. We don't know how much your mid is padded down by L-pad. However because of the date of your speakers I doubt the sensitivity of the driver is 92 1 watt I meter which is the sensitivity of the Vifa.

So my guess is at a minimum the replacement driver will play too loud and your speakers have a shouty midrange.

Obviously the speakers do not sound the same after replacement, as Orange County say you have to replace both drivers because the speakers sound different.

The cheapest price is Mark 1 at $68 each, next is Madisound at $90 each.

So I suspect with shipping if you gamble on this you will be in for about $150.

If you don't like what you hear then unless you have the skills to revoice and pad the crossovers, your investment will be a total loss, as you can not return installed drivers.

I think that is a lot of money to put in speakers over 20 years old, especially as changing drivers from original is seldom a happy state of affairs. The chances are you won't like what you hear.

So you will have to decide if the gamble is worth it. That driver by the way, is the only possible replacement.
 
R

raprice3

Enthusiast
Thanks for your thoughtful response. I really appreciate it.

I saw a couple of posts on ebay for infinity polydome midranges, but they are apparently for different speakers. Would they work for the Kappas? If not, I will probably just get some new speakers.

Thanks

http://cgi.ebay.com/PAIR-OF-INFINITY-POLYDOME-RAPID-ACCELERATION-MID-RANGES_W0QQitemZ390126587865QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeakers_Subwoofers?hash=item5ad55b4fd9

http://cgi.ebay.com/PAIR-INFINITY-POLYDOME-DOME-MIDRANGE-MID-SPEAKERS-RS_W0QQitemZ330385290937QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item4cec7f76b9
 
Last edited:
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks for your thoughtful response. I really appreciate it.

I saw a couple of posts on ebay for infinity polydome midranges, but they are apparently for different speakers. Would they work for the Kappas? If not, I will probably just get some new speakers.

Thanks

http://cgi.ebay.com/PAIR-OF-INFINITY-POLYDOME-RAPID-ACCELERATION-MID-RANGES_W0QQitemZ390126587865QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeakers_Subwoofers?hash=item5ad55b4fd9

http://cgi.ebay.com/PAIR-INFINITY-POLYDOME-DOME-MIDRANGE-MID-SPEAKERS-RS_W0QQitemZ330385290937QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item4cec7f76b9
Those will not work at all. There is no way they could crossover at 800 Hz, you would blow them right away.

There is one of yours, but you can see from the photograph it is in tough shape.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Thanks for your thoughtful response. I really appreciate it.

I saw a couple of posts on ebay for infinity polydome midranges, but they are apparently for different speakers. Would they work for the Kappas? If not, I will probably just get some new speakers.

Thanks

http://cgi.ebay.com/PAIR-OF-INFINITY-POLYDOME-RAPID-ACCELERATION-MID-RANGES_W0QQitemZ390126587865QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeakers_Subwoofers?hash=item5ad55b4fd9

http://cgi.ebay.com/PAIR-INFINITY-POLYDOME-DOME-MIDRANGE-MID-SPEAKERS-RS_W0QQitemZ330385290937QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item4cec7f76b9
your best bet is to email parts@harmanaudio.com if they have nothing then we will have to look for something or use TLS Guy's company.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
your best bet is to email parts@harmanaudio.com if they have nothing then we will have to look for something or use TLS Guy's company.
I have already established that no tweeters are available from Harmon, they discontinued parts quite a few years ago. These drivers are all failing and I'm reluctant to recommend using the Vifa driver. I think it would be an expensive gamble.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I have already established that no tweeters are available from Harmon, they discontinued parts quite a few years ago. These drivers are all failing and I'm reluctant to recommend using the Vifa driver. I think it would be an expensive gamble.
Sorry I missed that. I'd agree against using the Vifa driver. Maybe it's time to upgrade.

http://store.audioholics.com/product/2021/66333/infinity-primus-p362-floorstanding-speaker--each-

A pair of those might fill the bill.
 
R

raprice3

Enthusiast
Thanks for the info and the suggestion for speakers. I will definitely consider them. I don't want to start a thread on what are the best speakers because I know that there are lots of them already. But could you give some thoughts about the following I found on craigslist:

Martin Logan request: http://houston.craigslist.org/ele/1502376354.html
Klipsch (the seller said they are rc3II): http://houston.craigslist.org/ele/1502598340.html

My receiver is an Onkyo TX-SR607. I am not that picky. I dont' want to spend a fortune, but am willing to pay for some nice speakers.

What is TLS Guy's company? He already saved me some time and money.

Thanks
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Thanks for the info and the suggestion for speakers. I will definitely consider them. I don't want to start a thread on what are the best speakers because I know that there are lots of them already. But could you give some thoughts about the following I found on craigslist:

Martin Logan request: http://houston.craigslist.org/ele/1502376354.html
Klipsch (the seller said they are rc3II): http://houston.craigslist.org/ele/1502598340.html

My receiver is an Onkyo TX-SR607. I am not that picky. I dont' want to spend a fortune, but am willing to pay for some nice speakers.

What is TLS Guy's company? He already saved me some time and money.

Thanks
He doesn't run a speaker company. If he did they would probably be among the best speakers in the world though.

At that budget look at the B&W 700 series. It's a major step up from your speakers.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
He doesn't run a speaker company. If he did they would probably be among the best speakers in the world though.

At that budget look at the B&W 700 series. It's a major step up from your speakers.
Avoid the Klipsch. A receiver is not suitable to drive those Martin Logan electrostatics. You would also want to know your room could handle those electrostatic panels, and that you like planer loudspeakers. Planar speakers have pros and cons and are an acquired taste.

I would audition some speakers. You will have to find the B & W 700 series used, it is now basically replaced by the CM series.

You have to be careful with speakers, there is a ton of rubbish out there.

I have been less than impressed with the B & W 600 series. The CM series and especially the 800 series are a different league altogether, but likely over your budget.

What is your budget and what speakers can you audition locally?
 
R

raprice3

Enthusiast
I know there is a lot of junk out there, which makes me cautious. I was thinking of spending between $1000 and $1500 but could do a bit more for the right speakers. I will eventually get some high end speakers like the B&W 800s or similar, but not while I have small kids.

I tried searching for some specialty shops locally (Houston), but haven't found much. Of course we have the big retailers:

Frys, sells polk, infinity, Martin Logan, JBL (http://www.frys.com/catreq/-10272)

Best Buy, sells polk, definitive technology, martin logan, mirage, vienna acoustics (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Speakers/Floor-Speakers/abcat0205003.c?id=abcat0205003)

I have had good luck on Craigs List buying lots of stuff (but generally I know what I am looking for, where with speakers I am in dangerous waters). Here is a pair of carvers with amp for 750 http://houston.craigslist.org/ele/1501679584.html. The TV room has 10 foot ceilings, and is about 15 feet square and the open kitchen/dining area is connected.

Thanks
 
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lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I know there is a lot of junk out there, which makes me cautious. I was thinking of spending between $1000 and $1500 but could do a bit more for the right speakers. I will eventually get some high end speakers like the B&W 800s or similar, but not while I have small kids.

I tried searching for some specialty shops locally (Houston), but haven't found much. Of course we have the big retailers:

Frys, sells polk, infinity, Martin Logan, JBL (http://www.frys.com/catreq/-10272)

Best Buy, sells polk, definitive technology, martin logan, mirage, vienna acoustics (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Speakers/Floor-Speakers/abcat0205003.c?id=abcat0205003)

I have had good luck on Craigs List buying lots of stuff (but generally I know what I am looking for, where with speakers I am in dangerous waters). Here is a pair of carvers with amp for 750 http://houston.craigslist.org/ele/1501679584.html. The TV room has 10 foot ceilings, and is about 15 feet square and the open kitchen/dining area is connected.

Thanks
Visit here in Houston to listen to B&W's

Modia(aka Home theater store)
5805 Westheimer
Houston, Texas 77057

Modia(aka Home theater store)
6808 Hornwood
Houston, Texas 77074


Try checking these out too.
Premier Home Technologies
11707 S Sam Houston Pkwy - Suite A, Houston, TX, 77031

Push Play
10415 Landsbury - Suite 208, Houston, TX, 77219
 
R

raprice3

Enthusiast
Visit here in Houston to listen to B&W's

Modia(aka Home theater store)
5805 Westheimer
Houston, Texas 77057
Thanks, they are close to me, so I can check them out. They have the B&W 700 series and the CM series. I will go check them out.
 
S

smcgov34

Audiophyte
heck I'd buy those off you if I lived closer but those speakers are so massive it pretty much removes the shipping option.
 
I

ifsixwasnin9

Audioholic
I have the same problem. Just crushed one of my polydomes. I just need the diaphragm. You think these Vifa midrange replacement reviews at Orange County are planted?

http://www.speakerrepair.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=02-239&Category_Code=

I was very impressed with the B&W DM603 S3. Very realistic vocals, great mids, very refined bass but narrow footprint. They really, really grabbed me but didn't suit all of my needs. My Kappa 7 fit me a little better: wider and pretty well defined bass, very realistic drums, great vocals, the mids could be louder.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I have the same problem. Just crushed one of my polydomes. I just need the diaphragm. You think these Vifa midrange replacement reviews at Orange County are planted?

http://www.speakerrepair.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=02-239&Category_Code=

I was very impressed with the B&W DM603 S3. Very realistic vocals, great mids, very refined bass but narrow footprint. They really, really grabbed me but didn't suit all of my needs. My Kappa 7 fit me a little better: wider and pretty well defined bass, very realistic drums, great vocals, the mids could be louder.
If you use the Vifa/scanspeak mid dome, you will have a different sounding speaker.

One thing I omitted in my previous post is the issue of the rear chamber isolation.

You will need to ascertain if the mid range in your speakers is in its own enclosure. If not you will need to purchase the rear isolation chambers for the Vifa/Scanspeak mids, or you will have big trouble.

The big problem is that the crossover for those domes will almost certainly be far from optimal.

Take a look at the frequency response of the Vifa/Scanspeak dome.



Note that there is a nasty rise in response of 4 db from 900 Hz to 2.2 kHz. This will easily be audible unless dealt with in the crossover. The crossover actually needs to start shelving the mid range out at 2.2 K Hz around first order and then change to to at least second order around 1 kHz, and get the mid dome down at least 18 db by 500 Hz.

The off axis response above 5 kHz is dreadful so a high order slope on the top end is required.

The chance of the crossovers in your Infinity speakers being optimal for these units is so remote you can forget it.

When ever changing a drive unit a total crossover redesign is almost always required.
 
R

raprice3

Enthusiast
I was looking at getting those, but after listening to TLS guy, decided not to get the vifa midrange. From time to time you can find a used kappa 7 midrange on ebay. I got a used one and the speakers have been great ever since.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
I was looking at getting those, but after listening to TLS guy, decided not to get the vifa midrange. From time to time you can find a used kappa 7 midrange on ebay. I got a used one and the speakers have been great ever since.

That is usually the best solution. Now, to keep things that way, because:


... The polydome midranges on the speakers are in need of replacing (probably because my 2 year old likes to poke them). ...
Keep the grills on the speakers at all times, to keep your child from damaging the speakers. The grills serve a useful purpose. You don't want to have to find another one, do you?
 
R

raprice3

Enthusiast
That is usually the best solution. Now, to keep things that way, because:

Keep the grills on the speakers at all times, to keep your child from damaging the speakers. The grills serve a useful purpose. You don't want to have to find another one, do you?

I do my best to keep those grills on, but they manage to come off. I have definitely been a fool and parted with money unnecessarily, thanks to my kids.
 
M

Milesrunsdownthevoodoo

Audiophyte
Definitely requires a notch filter but that will do the trick with the Vifa dm75mx. Make sure you use the early clear poly dome version with no id numbers or letters after the "mx". It is a superior driver to the black dome versions and IMO has better tone and dispersion. I use a dab (chocolate chip size) of silicone in the center of the dome to improve linear movement and reduce chance of breakup at peak. After years of testing I have found that covering the flared dispersion flange with felt helps a lot. Personally I would take the Vifa out 100% by 4000 hz and bring in a nice Polydax silk dome or similar to provide a nice finish.
 
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