How do you know what cables to use? (Size? Quality?

[MidnightSensi]

You can use bare wire but you really don't get a better connection. Also, unless it is solid you need to be care with stranded wire that there are no errant wire strands which are the major cause of "whisker shorts".

I'm a little nuts, but I generally solder the end of speaker wire to create a nice stiff end to put into the terminals. It seems like a lot of extra work, but it really isn't (heat the iron, toss some solder on there and your done), but on the receiver end it makes hookup so much easier that it actually saves time. No more wire strands getting bunched up, easy to put through the hole, etc.

 

[mibson]

I'm a little nuts, but I generally solder the end of speaker wire to create a nice stiff end to put into the terminals. It seems like a lot of extra work, but it really isn't (heat the iron, toss some solder on there and your done), but on the receiver end it makes hookup so much easier that it actually saves time. No more wire strands getting bunched up, easy to put through the hole, etc.

Ive read that regular solder is less conductive, and that you should use silver solder...

 

[MidnightSensi]

Ive read that regular solder is less conductive, and that you should use silver solder...

It is, but its negligible. Everything from your blu-ray to your amplifier to your speakers is put together with regular ol' solder, so, if its on the cables it won't make it any worse. Also silver solder is really less than 5% silver.

 

[BigSkreen]

I'm running 8 gauge on the front 3 but to be fair it was cheap and my run is at least a mile and a half.

Sometimes I think maybe my humor doesn't come across. I literally got this as a chicklet.

"How do you know what... 11-27-2009 02:55 PM you are full of baloney - 8 gauge run a mile and 1/2"

I do tend to make outrageous claims like I can run Ethernet 100km on Cat5 and that I invented the internet.

 

[Rick Royce]

Congratulations to the speakers, they seem great!

To get the most out of your speakers, I have the following cable advice:

Speaker cables:

Wire gauge – To be on the safe side throughout the frequency range I would recommend an 11 AWG or lower (heavier gauge). The Speaker Cable Gauge calculator, mentioned before, render in 16 AWG for 4 Ohms speakers which also concurs with your speaker specification, given your 10 feets. However, it should be noted that these specifications often are too optimistic and actual impedance as low as 1 Ohm somewhere in the frequency range it is not uncommon. If this was true also for your speakers it would render in a recommended maximum 2,5 feet length for a AWG 16.

Terminated or bare wire – I would recommend bare wire as best value since low price terminators often contains less conductive materials such as brass etc. The only disadvantage with pure copper is its oxide which has a less favourable conductivity. However, if you retighten your connector screws on the speaker and amplifier ever so often this should assure a clean nice copper connection between the sockets and the bare wire.

Soldering of cable tip – If you plan to keep the cables in the system (and don’t change so often) I see no reason to solder the tips. I am no solder pro, but regular solder has worse conductivity than copper. Even if you manage to find “pure” silver solder the potential induced oxide and flux will render in less conductivity if you are anything less than a solder pro. Concerning the reference to the soldering of cables to circuit boards, my understanding is that you first put the cable end on the board, to get a clean copper to copper connection, then you heat and solder to fixate the connection.

Cable construction – An even AC resistance (impedance) through out the frequency range will always be better, everything else equal, see examples in speaker-cable-reviews-faceoff-2 page 6.
The reason is that higher AC resistance in the higher frequencies will consequently lead to greater losses of the high frequency sound (going up in heat). You will see that low inductance high capacitance speaker cables normally have a more constant AC resistance and consequently a more linear “frequency response”. There are many brands to choose from, I use Achievum Cables speaker cables.

Interconnect cables

Cable construction – I would recommend low capacitance cables. Since the load impedance (the amplifier's RCA input, assuming you have an integrated amp) is very big (many kOhm) the current in the interconnect cable is very very low in relation to the voltage. For this reason any leak currents caused by the interconnect cables capacitance will have a much greater impact than both resistance and inductance. Also go for good thick shielding since this protect the sensitive interconnect signal against external interference and earth differences in your equipment. Here I can second Blue Jeans Cable company, mentioned earlier, for their interconnect cables which have very low capacitance, double shielding and reasonable connectors at a good price.

Using your existing component video cable – It all depends on if it meets the criteria’s for capacitance, shielding and connector quality as mentioned above. However, in standard configuration all 3 leads are normally bundled together and this will by default drive up the capacitance, which is not good.

 

[mibson]

Thanks!

Very helpful and informative!

Cheers


My amp will be an emotiva UPA-2 for now, I will be using a 10 year old arcam for a preamp. (all temporary) (Xeta 2)

Right now I have to use my 16 gauge speaker cables, is it worth doubling them up? I should be able to minimize their length to about 6 feet.(I will buy 10 gauge cable in a few months)

Also, right now I get to choose between cheep old RCA cables Ive had for years that are two feet long, or a Monster component cable (3 cables bundled) this is newer and about 5 feet long. What would be better for now? (I will get blue jeans cables for everything in a few months)

Also, what if I took my Monster component cable and pulled off one of the cables, so that only two remain? Will this minimize "driving up the capacitance,"?

 

[jinjuku]

Actually that is correct. In your situation of 9 feet, even 16 gauge meets the recommended Audioholocs requirements for 4 ohm( max 10 feet) or 8 Ohm( max 20 feet) speakers.

You can use larger gauge wire (i.e. lower gauge number) but you will gain very little.

Good Luck!

Forest man

I wouldn't say that 16 gauge at 9 feet meets the recommended Audioholocs requirements for 4 ohm( max 10 feet) or 8 Ohm( max 20 feet) speakers.

I would say that it meets Physic's requirements.

 

[jinjuku]

Ive read that regular solder is less conductive, and that you should use silver solder...

I use silver solder (4%). Soldering the ends of the cable is called 'tinning'.

 

[jinjuku]

Congratulations to the speakers, they seem great!

To get the most out of your speakers, I have the following cable advice:

Speaker cables:

Soldering of cable tip – If you plan to keep the cables in the system (and don’t change so often) I see no reason to solder the tips. I am no solder pro, but regular solder has worse conductivity than copper. Even if you manage to find “pure” silver solder the potential induced oxide and flux will render in less conductivity if you are anything less than a solder pro. Concerning the reference to the soldering of cables to circuit boards, my understanding is that you first put the cable end on the board, to get a clean copper to copper connection, then you heat and solder to fixate the connection.

OP, please keep in mind that in a typical Stereo or HT setup that there are literally 1000's of solder connections in the signal path. Another few that are tinning the ends of your cables aren't going to make a difference that anyone, including 'audiophiles', are going to hear.

 

[Rick Royce]

Very helpful and informative!

Cheers



Right now I have to use my 16 gauge speaker cables, is it worth doubling them up? I should be able to minimize their length to about 6 feet.(I will buy 10 gauge cable in a few months)

Also, right now I get to choose between cheep old RCA cables Ive had for years that are two feet long, or a Monster component cable (3 cables bundled) this is newer and about 5 feet long. What would be better for now? (I will get blue jeans cables for everything in a few months)

Also, what if I took my Monster component cable and pulled off one of the cables, so that only two remain? Will this minimize "driving up the capacitance,"?

Speaker cable:
Doubling the 16 AWG will reduce the recistance by half, so that is good. However, since you run two separate leads you will not benefit form the same inductance reduction as if you got to the same net gauge in one cable

Interconnect cable:
It is the overall quality of the cables which is of importance rather then the age. So see if you can find any specification for the cables you have, choose the best one based on the criteria a mentioned in earlier posting.
Everything else equal, shorter is better, which is in favour of your old cables.

Monster component cable – It all depends somewhat on if they are shielded and if so how this is done. However, in theory the best option is to separate all 3 of the Monster component cable leads from each other and only use 2, if this can be done without hurting the isolation. This will render in the lowest capacitance.

 

[mtrycrafts]

OP, please keep in mind that in a typical Stereo or HT setup that there are literally 1000's of solder connections in the signal path. Another few that are tinning the ends of your cables aren't going to make a difference that anyone, including 'audiophiles', are going to hear.

And, one would need a pretty good instrument to even measure this

 

[mtrycrafts]

...However, it should be noted that these specifications often are too optimistic and actual impedance as low as 1 Ohm somewhere in the frequency range it is not uncommon.....

Welcome Rick

If that 1 Ohm is not uncommon perhaps you can select a representative number from this list that dips to 1 Ohms? Thanks.

http://www.soundstageav.com/speakermeasurements.html

 

[Rick Royce]

Welcome Rick

If that 1 Ohm is not uncommon perhaps you can select a representative number from this list that dips to 1 Ohms? Thanks.

You seem to have gotten me with my pants down this time! I have not been able to validate with any other sources, however if your source are correct the random min values certainly looks closer to 4 Ohms than 1 Ohms.

However, to show my good sportsmanship, I now disagree with the whole calculation model used since it disregards the high-frequency AC resistance effect!

No seriously, I had expected that a much heavier gauge would be needed than what the model show, however even with my AC resistance effect I do not manage to alter the result with more than some 20%. So I guess I need to re-think this.

 

[mtrycrafts]

You seem to have gotten me with my pants down this time! I have not been able to validate with any other sources, however if your source are correct the random min values certainly looks closer to 4 Ohms than 1 Ohms.

However, to show my good sportsmanship, I now disagree with the whole calculation model used since it disregards the high-frequency AC resistance effect!

No seriously, I had expected that a much heavier gauge would be needed than what the model show, however even with my AC resistance effect I do not manage to alter the result with more than some 20%. So I guess I need to re-think this.

I surely hope that my link has accurate measurements done at the Canadian National Research Center where Dr. Floyd Toole has spent a good part of his life researching speakers, psychoacoustics, etc.

May want to read this paper by Fred Davis and how inductance affects the hf bands. Remember to check the delta between the flattest cable response and the the others. Also, can you hear 16kHz? and above? Not many do.
http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/cableInteractions.pdf

And, don't forget that the delta way up there has a JND of 3dB at 16kHz.

 

[mibson]

Cables

I surely hope that my link has accurate measurements done at the Canadian National Research Center where Dr. Floyd Toole has spent a good part of his life researching speakers, psychoacoustics, etc.

May want to read this paper by Fred Davis and how inductance affects the hf bands. Remember to check the delta between the flattest cable response and the the others. Also, can you hear 16kHz? and above? Not many do.
http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/cableInteractions.pdf

And, don't forget that the delta way up there has a JND of 3dB at 16kHz.

Interesting research, but Im not an electrical engineer and dont understand some of this article.

So the conclusion....

If I use cheap 12 gauge cables about 10 feet long, Im fine?

Note, perfection is required, I dont want cables negatively affecting my sound quality...

 

[JerryLove]

If I use cheap 12 gauge cables about 10 feet long, Im fine?

Note, perfection is required, I dont want cables negatively affecting my sound quality...

Yes. That is correct. That is what I use (though often longer than 10').

 

[Rick Royce]

May want to read this paper by Fred Davis and how inductance affects the hf bands. Remember to check the delta between the flattest cable response and the the others. Also, can you hear 16kHz? and above? Not many do.
http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/cableInteractions.pdf

And, don't forget that the delta way up there has a JND of 3dB at 16kHz.

Above 16 kHz!? As a profound listener of dog pipe orchestras, I would say ”its where it all happens”.


I have had a first look at the article you referred to and it seems to confirm much of what I wrote in earlier posts. However, the article is quite dense and need a bit of digestion, particularly the part on how the cables impacted the performance of the speakers.


My initial thoughts are as follows:

• The author concludes that low inductance (high capacitance) cables are the best option, which agrees with my earlier statements

• It is a bit sad that some of the cable selected for the test are a bit odd. Particularly the flat cables are not so desirable for speaker cable use due to their “antenna” characteristics that significantly increases risk of interference and distortion. Additionally they are inferior to round cables when it comes to making true low inductance cables. Finally, the causal reader can be lead to believe that flat cables are synonym with low inductance cables. However, these cables can naturally be configured either way dependent on how the conductors are bundled in the ends and the most intuitive configuration is in fact a low capacitance (not a low inductance), e.g. standard Nordost’s configuration.

• Additionally, the article stress that the difference between the DC resistance and the AC impedance at 20 000 Hz can be a factor 10 (page 4). I double checked for 18 AWG zip (sample 12) and came to a factor 8,5. This puts additional fire into my earlier statement about promoting heavier gauge speaker wire. In a 4 ohms load the 18 AWG now needs to be shorter than a feet to perform adequately at high frequencies.

So my recommendation is as before:


1. Keep the cables as short as possible

2. Stick to rather heavy gauge (for DC resistance reasons)

3. If you can choose, go for the lowest inductance cables (keeps the performance more linear over the frequency range)

4. A tightly spaced 12 Gauge twin-lead is a reasonable compromise that likely will be ok for you. Perfection can never be obtained since a cable always will degrade the sound to some extent (the question is at which level it becomes neglectable)

5. The DC resistance can only be decreased to a certain extent in a regular twin-lead cable before the increased conductor spacing, caused by the heavier gauge, starts to increase the inductance. For situations where cable requirements are extra high multi-conductor speaker cables are often used, since they can keep both DC resistance and inductance very low at the same time. But that is likely an overkill given your current budget restraints.

 

[lsiberian]

OP, please keep in mind that in a typical Stereo or HT setup that there are literally 1000's of solder connections in the signal path. Another few that are tinning the ends of your cables aren't going to make a difference that anyone, including 'audiophiles', are going to hear.

I've heard not all equipment is using lead joints anymore since the EU ban. The lead ones last much longer so this is really sad.