Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
I've always wanted to try lining the inside of a cabinet with Homasote, and / or multiple coats of auto undercoating.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
If you use plywood, I would use cabinet grade plywood, so there are no voids.

I think in some ways plywood can be easier to work, as the edges don't break out and the dust is not so unpleasant.

However overall I prefer MDF. The edges are good and straight and the boards do not warp. You can make nice dado. MDT takes tight bond well.

I use pre veneered MDF. I use the type veneered both sides so it does not warp. I do extensive dado cuts. I do not use any fasteners, but clamp the enclosures together, after applying Tightbond.

Before the mid eighties, I wasted a lot of time and money on veneer. A professional cabinet maker showed me how to make a totally professional cabinet from pre veneered MDF and I have not looked back.

The veneer sticks to MDF much better than plywood by the way.
Don't you have to miter the edges for this to work?
 
Chopper Greg

Chopper Greg

Audioholic
I've always wanted to try lining the inside of a cabinet with Homasote, and / or multiple coats of auto undercoating.
If it's for sound dampening, I would probably opt for the 440 Sound Barrier rather than standard.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
If it's for sound dampening, I would probably opt for the 440 Sound Barrier rather than standard.
Forget that. Use rockwool the stuff is cheaper and way better.

If your too lazy to get rockwool you can also use fiberglass.
 
Chopper Greg

Chopper Greg

Audioholic
How firm is the rock-wool?

I wasn't thinking in terms of the 440 to deal specifically with the sound but more in terms of using it to dampen the ply without having the weight of MDF.

Did that make sense? :confused:

As for being able to get it, I know a place that deals with cutoffs/large scraps, and so I can get the 440 for about 50% off per sq/ft., as long as I'm willing to cut and fit - that makes it about 10%-15% cheaper than the best price, I can find, on the rock-wool mentioned.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
How firm is the rock-wool?

I wasn't thinking in terms of the 440 to deal specifically with the sound but more in terms of using it to dampen the ply without having the weight of MDF.

Did that make sense? :confused:

As for being able to get it, I know a place that deals with cutoffs/large scraps, and so I can get the 440 for about 50% off per sq/ft., as long as I'm willing to cut and fit - that makes it about 10%-15% cheaper than the best price, I can find, on the rock-wool mentioned.
Rockwool is for treating a speaker cabinet.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
I've always wanted to try lining the inside of a cabinet with Homasote, and / or multiple coats of auto undercoating.
Homasote doesn't cover enough of the audible range of sound IIRC. The NRC numbers aren't good enough IIRC. It's sh!t! ... there, I said it. :D

You know the drill. :)

I found Peel & Seal at Lowe's down here. I was fixin' to buy six rolls of it and then unburdened my arms of the load near the till and walked out. They only had one person working a register and 4 self check out machine things that I won't use and the cashier looked swamped. They may not have to employ people to work registers but they're gonna pay somebody to put that crap back. I'll get some before I leave. :rolleyes:
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Don't you have to miter the edges for this to work?
No, as you neatly fill in the exposed parts with half round, which bevels the cabinet as it should be.

Here is a view of one of my cabinets built that way. This was an audiophile sound of first place winner



It actually turns out to be a slick way of building speaker cabinets.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
so if I'm using cabinet grade ply and have enough clamps I can make the kappa subs with no screws? and it will be ok?
It is best to avoid fasteners in speaker cabinet builds. Yes you will be fine.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Even if you pre-drill?
Yes, even if you pre drill, some much always gets in the joins, and MDF produces a bleb around the fastener is it screws in.

Also as you build the enclosure, the screws can cause a break out and ruin a board, before you have the cabinet finished.

I can't stress enough the importance of avoiding fasteners when building speakers out of MDF. The cabinets will be stronger without them.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Yes, even if you pre drill, some much always gets in the joins, and MDF produces a bleb around the fastener is it screws in.

Also as you build the enclosure, the screws can cause a break out and ruin a board, before you have the cabinet finished.

I can't stress enough the importance of avoiding fasteners when building speakers out of MDF. The cabinets will be stronger without them.
Mark, my love of fasteners and disdain for MDF clearly point me in the direction of plywood although I understand that you are quite successful with your methods. Then again, what do I know? I still haven't ever built a speaker of any kind. Thanks for the input. ;)
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
No, as you neatly fill in the exposed parts with half round, which bevels the cabinet as it should be.

Here is a view of one of my cabinets built that way. This was an audiophile sound of first place winner



It actually turns out to be a slick way of building speaker cabinets.
Can you get a closer shot of your joints on the enclosure to get a better idea of what you are doing.

Thanks!
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Having built literally hundreds of boxes for woofers and some smaller ones for displays, using glue-coated crown staples, non-coated staples and finishing nails (all with air-powered guns), various types of screws and using only glue, I can say that fasteners make a difference. They not only speed up the process (using an air stapler or nail gun) but when they're glue-coated, they also maintain contact of the joined parts while and after the glue dries. Granted, a wood joint should be stronger than the wood itself but when the material is basically little chucks or bits of ground up wood, if the stresses are great enough, the material can definitely fail. Particle board can crumble and MFD can peel in layers. If screws are used, pre-drilling and counter-sinking is best, being careful to avoid over-torquing the screws. This is how it can be done without breaking out the material at the edge. A driver with a clutch is the easiest way and I wouldn't bother to do it by hand. Screwing the box together without pre-drilling is the best way to cause breakouts and splitting, so it's a waste of time and materials.

Using corner clamps holds the parts together and assures a tight joint. If a 'bleb' is the little ring that protrudes around the hole after the drilling, that can be filed off easily, especially if it's on a face. If it's on an edge, it can be filed off but it's just a little more tricky on thin material.

BTW- it's quarter-round, not half-round, but it is a good way to dress up a joint. Some companies route a square-cornered groove in all corners and glue a piece of solid hardwood or some other material, sanding it smooth and barely easing the corner over, rounding it over or beveling it. All work and all add strength.

If anyone doubts that fasteners make a positive difference in a box, build one using scraps, using 12" x 12" x 8" for the dimensions. Use clamps to hold it while the glue dries and wait a day before removing the clamps. Now, rap on the larger sides with bare knuckles and listen for the pitch of the resonance. If you have the ability to measure the frequency using RTA software, do that and save the test. You will see a resonant peak in a narrow frequency range. Now, pre-drill and counter-sink some holes about 6" apart along one edge, install the screws making sure that they're not too tight (no breakouts) and rap on it with bare knuckles again and save this RTA test. The resonant peak will have shifted upward slightly. Repeat this along the opposite edge, but use 4" spacing instead of 6". Repeat the knuckle rap and save this test. The shift should be stronger this time. Repeat for each side and do the knuckle rap test for each edge. If just doing this to one face increases the resonance frequency raises it, screwing all faces to the edges will make even more difference. The added stiffness can place the resonance frequency outside of the operating range of the driver and with woofers, which deliver far more energy to what they're mounted into than mids or tweeters, this is important.

Now, knowing that nobody wants to see a row of screws along the border of the faces on a speaker cabinet can be considered 'attractive', a similar result can be had by screwing 'cleats' into the corners, from the inside. It's more work, more difficult and can be a pain, but Klipsch has done it for decades. The only place screws can be seen on their larger cabinets is on the rear panel, which is screwed into a set of cleats, but isn't glued because the drivers are usually mounted from the inside. Their new speakers with vinyl or wood laminates are made the same way as most- V-grooved with only one open corner, glued using dado joints and grooves for accepting the bracing and front/rear panels. This is done so the cabinets can be assembled quickly, not because it's the best way. Low production numbers allow for more steps but when a company makes 100K speakers annually, screwing the cabinets together isn't going to happen unless the selling price is extremely high.

A dado joint (in contact on three places with the piece being attached) is a great way to join wood without using fasteners as long as the glue isn't particularly flexible. Front and rear panels that are recessed are joined this way. If the panel is flush with the sides, it's likely that the side had a groove cut (an 'L" shaped cut that allows the face to fit into the pre-assembled box without leaving one panel off) or a cleat glued in to support the face. The large manufacturers don't normally use regular wood glue- they often use fast setting polyester, polyurethane or urea glues. Yellow wood glue works great for us, who usually make only a pair of boxes at one time unless we're making a full set for surround.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
No, as you neatly fill in the exposed parts with half round, which bevels the cabinet as it should be.

Here is a view of one of my cabinets built that way. This was an audiophile sound of first place winner



It actually turns out to be a slick way of building speaker cabinets.
I'm intrigued now. So you clamp half round into the joint along with the the ends of the pieces.

Id still prefer to use 13 ply since I have an abundance of that atm.

Would priming and painting also work really well?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I'm intrigued now. So you clamp half round into the joint along with the the ends of the pieces.

Id still prefer to use 13 ply since I have an abundance of that atm.

Would priming and painting also work really well?
I don't have a really good picture in my library. However this picture show the principle.



If you look at this board showing there is a dato all the way round for the trim. There is a dato half the thickness of the board, all the way round the boards it fits in.

This way you can use pre veneered board which hold up better. Clamped with Tightbond the cabinets are very strong. Use tons of it, just don't get it on the veneer, or wipe it off right away with a wet rag if you do.

Sorry about the late reply, but I have just come back from the UK. I got stranded at LHR for 24 hours due to engine trouble. I just got back to Benedict yesterday afternoon, and pulled two boats out of the water yesterday, mine and my neighbors.

Next speaker project I will take better photos.
 
A

allargon

Audioholic General
Rockwool is for treating a speaker cabinet.
I know people here love rockwool. The issue I have with it is that it is a known irritant. Do you folks actually use it for ported applications? If so, do you cover the ports with a screen or something?
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I know people here love rockwool. The issue I have with it is that it is a known irritant. Do you folks actually use it for ported applications? If so, do you cover the ports with a screen or something?
Rockwool is pretty harmless when compared to fiber. I don't know if you have a particular hatred for rockwool as all of our bodies are different.

I don't suggest eating it, or breathing it like crazy, but you should be ok if you use good gloves. I don't mess with insulation a lot so you'd be better off consulting your local insulation supplier or the manufacturer on safety precautions, but my research tends to indicate that Rockwool is a safe and effective product for loudspeaker dampening and room treatments.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I don't have a really good picture in my library. However this picture show the principle.



If you look at this board showing there is a dato all the way round for the trim. There is a dato half the thickness of the board, all the way round the boards it fits in.

This way you can use pre veneered board which hold up better. Clamped with Tightbond the cabinets are very strong. Use tons of it, just don't get it on the veneer, or wipe it off right away with a wet rag if you do.

Sorry about the late reply, but I have just come back from the UK. I got stranded at LHR for 24 hours due to engine trouble. I just got back to Benedict yesterday afternoon, and pulled two boats out of the water yesterday, mine and my neighbors.

Next speaker project I will take better photos.
I've been in LHR for 24 hours no fun:(

I'm not in any hurries. Just trying to glean what I can.

Now I get it. That's great. I just need to get more accurate at cutting.
 
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