HELP with TV selection PLease

M

musta9

Junior Audioholic
Anybody here heard of an online dealer called wegaplaza.com - it is based out of England and the prices are unbelievable such as a brand new Pioneer PRO - 151FD sells for 2500 US dollars - I called them and they say that the low prices are because the buy directly from the manufacturer. I just wanted to see if anyone here has ever bought anything from them or is this too good to be true?
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
Anybody here heard of an online dealer called wegaplaza.com - it is based out of England and the prices are unbelievable such as a brand new Pioneer PRO - 151FD sells for 2500 US dollars - I called them and they say that the low prices are because the buy directly from the manufacturer. I just wanted to see if anyone here has ever bought anything from them or is this too good to be true?
I believe you've answerd this in you last sentence...;). Did you get a shipping quote and what are you going to do if there is damage or if they're not ligit? If your working on a set budget than IMO go with the v10 from panny as it will easily fit that budget. Most of us forum dwellers are very helpful when we're spending other peoples money...:D

Regards, Bill
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Yup, I've heard of wegaplaza and they are a 100% SCAM!

They'll ask you to pay using Western Union. If you do, say goodbye to your money. It'll be gone, you'll never get any product and you will have no recourse. Never EVER pay anybody using Western Union!

AVinDemand is another SCAM. Their address shows up on google maps. It's a residential house. Yeah...that's legit :rolleyes:

There was another scam site listed on google product search for a while...something that started with a "k" and had a "y" in it :p Sorry, I can't remember off the top of my head. Anyway - they were the same company as wegaplaza. Total scam sites.

Just remember - if it seems too good to be true: it is! When legit discount retailers are all selling for around the same price and then you see an unfamiliar website with a price that's $1000 or more lower? That's a scam.

$3200 shipped for the KRP-600M from BestBuyPCS is the best deal that I'm seeing. Any legit retailer will ALWAYS want you to pay with a credit card. If they want Western Union or a direct Wire Transfer, they are a SCAM. No legit retailer will ever ask for those forms of payment. Legit retailers will only ever accept credit cards or PayPal ;)
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
Yes they did say that but thats just another obstacle that will be over come in time.
It is already overcome with plasma.

I highly doubt it will be overcome in LCD. Another technology perhaps??
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
It is already overcome with plasma.

I highly doubt it will be overcome in LCD. Another technology perhaps??
Before I post this.. please note that I'm not an LCD fanboy. I just ahppen to purchase one because it was the only thing that fit my budget for size and resolution.

You may doubt it but it was said that LCD black levels were never going to match Plasmaa. The latest Sony offering prooved them dead wrong on that one as it actually bested the Panny Plasma's back level. At least according to HT Magazine ;). The viewing angle dilema maybe the next target on LCD's development horizion.
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
Before I post this.. please note that I'm not an LCD fanboy. I just ahppen to purchase one because it was the only thing that fit my budget for size and resolution.

You may doubt it but it was said that LCD black levels were never going to match Plasmaa. The latest Sony offering prooved them dead wrong on that one as it actually bested the Panny Plasma's back level. At least according to HT Magazine ;). The viewing angle dilema maybe the next target on LCD's development horizion.
I am definitely not accusing you of fanboyism. :D

Note in the review that many also stated that the shadow detail on the Panny was better than that of the Sony though the Sony could go a bit deeper. There is a little more to it than just absolute black level. This is one reason it won the faceoff. Something else also mentioned in the review was the slight non uniformity of black in a completely darkened room with the Sony. This would bother me greatly if it were in my home.

Also keep in mind this was the G10, not the V10. The V10 has already been reviewed to have Kuro or near Kuro black levels.










I find it interesting that the best LCD's use local dimming that simulate the lighting and dimming of individual pixels. Guess what folks, this has been done already. It is called plasma, let's not try to reinvent the wheel because you were not competitive in the (plasma) market place. :D

The above is why I don't get the push behind LCD. It was behind plasma from the beginning. Why not take an emerging technology and improve it and run with it than take an old tech and try to improve it so it can just compete with what is available.

Wait, I forgot about the profitablity of LCD for manufacturers. They would rather use a misinformation campaign to sell a somewhat inferior product. It is somewhat disheartening when all out profit outweighs the importance of being a market leader in technology and top performance.

I get it one must stay in business but where does a company draw the line...
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I am definitely not accusing you of fanboyism. :D

Note in the review that many also stated that the shadow detail on the Panny was better than that of the Sony though the Sony could go a bit deeper. There is a little more to it than just absolute black level. This is one reason it won the faceoff. Something else also mentioned in the review was the slight non uniformity of black in a completely darkened room with the Sony. This would bother me greatly if it were in my home.

Also keep in mind this was the G10, not the V10. The V10 has already been reviewed to have Kuro or near Kuro black levels.

I find it interesting that the best LCD's use local dimming that simulate the lighting and dimming of individual pixels. Guess what folks, this has been done already. It is called plasma, let's not try to reinvent the wheel because you were not competitive in the (plasma) market place. :D

The above is why I don't get the push behind LCD. It was behind plasma from the beginning. Why not take an emerging technology and improve it and run with it than take an old tech and try to improve it so it can just compete with what is available.

Wait, I forgot about the profitablity of LCD for manufacturers. They would rather use a misinformation campaign to sell a somewhat inferior product. It is somewhat disheartening when all out profit outweighs the importance of being a market leader in technology and top performance.

I get it one must stay in business but where does a company draw the line...
I think that we as the consumer will continue to win if manufacturers continue to try and improve upon a weaker technology to match/better that of a better technology. Since I dived into the display, I'm now more interested than ever in the evolution of these technologies. What I would really like to see is the developemnt of a new technology that offers only the strengthes of the two and none of their inherent weaknesses for around the same dollar value (or cheaper :D ) .
 
S

smitty78

Audioholic Intern
Didn't Panasonic hire some of the Pioneer technicians, like 200 of them? I thought I read that somewhere. Maybe Panasonic will stay true and continue to better their already beautiful plasmas. I think the V10 is an awesome set and with a professional calibration it does give the Kuro some competition. Before long, the V10 will be the best available HDTV on the market with Pioneer out of the game.

If people would wise up, the plasma will live on but there's too many people being fooled by marketing. People tend to buy what looks good on a showroom floor, then they have salesmen pushing LCD/LED's everywhere because they have oodles of them. They cost less to make and sell for more money. Hmmmm. You're pretty much getting a overly bright, plastic TV that looks pretty hanging on a wall, that's about it.

It's our job as plasma owners to inform the newbies what pq is all about. At the very least we help those that want to be helped. Those that do their research and audition will know, without a doubt, which technology is better. Impulsive buyers usually can't be helped.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Didn't Panasonic hire some of the Pioneer technicians, like 200 of them? I thought I read that somewhere. Maybe Panasonic will stay true and continue to better their already beautiful plasmas. I think the V10 is an awesome set and with a professional calibration it does give the Kuro some competition. Before long, the V10 will be the best available HDTV on the market with Pioneer out of the game.

If people would wise up, the plasma will live on but there's too many people being fooled by marketing. People tend to buy what looks good on a showroom floor, then they have salesmen pushing LCD/LED's everywhere because they have oodles of them. They cost less to make and sell for more money. Hmmmm. You're pretty much getting a overly bright, plastic TV that looks pretty hanging on a wall, that's about it.

It's our job as plasma owners to inform the newbies what pq is all about. At the very least we help those that want to be helped. Those that do their research and audition will know, without a doubt, which technology is better. Impulsive buyers usually can't be helped.
I disagree totaklly with you on this. Let the two technologies duke it out. Plasma technology does have its limitations too and is not the perfect display technology either. Better than LCD?? On most things for now...but LCD is closing the gap. We as consumers only win from this competition of these two technologies.
 
M

musta9

Junior Audioholic
If your number one concern is picture quality, then the KRP-600M is definitely at the very top of the competition.

After that, it would be a fight between the PDP-6020FD and the Panasonic V10. The Panasonic V10 has advantages, such as more accurate colour. But the PDP-6020FD has the less reflective screen surface and better black level retention in a lit room.

For YOUR room, I would give the nod to the PDP-6020FD because of the bright lighting. In a dim room, I might favour the V10 over the PDP-6020FD, so I can see how people would say that. But in YOUR room, getting good performance in fairly high ambient light means that the better screen surface of the Pioneer really comes into full effect.

The LED edge-lit Samsung LCDs (like the 55B8000 that you mentioned or the B6000 and B7000 series) are just plain not good, IMO. They have uneven illumination across the screen. They have TERRIBLE off-axis viewing. And their screen is like a glossy mirror. There is absolutely nothing about them that makes them a good choice for your room. And if picture quality is your number one concern? RUN! The edge-lit LCDs are NOT for you ;)

The LGs - I'm not as familiar with. But plain and simple, if picture quality is your number one concern, no LCD can match the Pioneer Kuro plasmas. LED Edge-lit LCDs all have problems with uneven illumination and really bad off-axis viewing. Local-dimming LED LCDs are better, but I have yet to see a single one that does not suffer from "blooming" - where a bright object on a black background has a "halo" of light around it. I've also yet to see any LED backlit LCD of any type that has good off-axis viewing. And the incredibly glossy screens - just a travesty! I guess they want it to appeal to vain women who just want to use it as a mirror :p

How much savings are we talking about here if you buy the PDP-6020FD rather than the KRP-600M + table stand or articulating wall-mount?

If picture quality in the number one concern, the KRP-600M is what you should buy. The PRO-141FD or PRO-151FD would be equally good choices, but they are both more expensive, so the KRP-600M becomes the absolute top choice.

I'm seeing the KRP-600M from BestBuyPCS for about $3000 and then I know from speaking with them that it'll be about $200 for shipping. The official KRP-TS01 stand would set you back about $430 if you buy it from Pioneer and include shipping. So $3630 altogether for that route.

The Peerless SA770PU articulating wall mount can work with the KRP-600M with no adapter plate needed. Several reputable online vendors are showing prices of around $400 shipped. Check a google product search of Buy.com for options.

Total cost is still similar - around $3600

Now, if we compare that to the PDP-6020FD, I'm not seeing prices that are much - if any - lower. Most reputable online vendors are selling the PDP-6020FD for more than $3600 shipped, so I really think the KRP-600M is still a very viable option - even with the cost of the stand or an articulated wall mount included!

Another option to get the price lower is to look for alternative table-top stands. The PDK-1015 is confirmed to fit perfectly with no modifications and frequently shows up for sale on eBay for under $100. The PDK-TS30, PDK-TS30A and PDK-TS35A should also work, but I haven't seen them for sale anywhere.

A final option for the KRP-600M would be to actually build out the wall behind the monitor so that you could use a less expensive flat or tilt wall-mount. Several compatible flat and tilt wall-mounts are available for under $100, so if you can build out the wall so that the monitor will be far enough forward, that could work as well :)

I'm making all of these suggestions because you've made it clear that picture quality is concern number one, that bright lighting conditions are concern number two and that keeping the cost reasonably low is concern number three. That being the case, there really just is no better choice than the KRP-600M. I'm honestly not seeing the PDP-6020FD for any cheaper. Perhaps I'm missing some buying option, but other than scam sites, all the prices are at least around the $3600 mark which is the same or higher than the cost of a KRP-600M plus a wall mount or stand. If you can snag the PDK-1015 stand, it'll definitely be cheaper to go with the KRP-600M, so try to track down one of those for sure and give BestBuyPCS a phone call to grab the KRP-600M! :D
Hi FirstReflection thanks alot for all the help with the TV selection. I just bought the Pioneer PDK-1015. Do i need any additional pieces for it to work woth the krp-600M - such as screws, etc?

Have you had any expeience or heard about AVinDemand or PlasmaConcepts - both websites have it at significantly better price - I just don't want to spend this mutch money and end up with a refurbished model or even worse, nothing at all?
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Hi FirstReflection thanks alot for all the help with the TV selection. I just bought the Pioneer PDK-1015. Do i need any additional pieces for it to work woth the krp-600M - such as screws, etc?

Have you had any experience or heard about AVinDemand or PlasmaConcepts - both websites have it at significantly better price - I just don't want to spend this mutch money and end up with a refurbished model or even worse, nothing at all?
The PDK-1015 shouldn't need any additional pieces or modification. At worst, if it is just a stand that someone isn't using (it used to come with some of the older 60" plasmas from a few years back) you might have to get the bolts and screws. But those are available from Pioneer's Replacement Parts website and don't cost much at all. The part number would be AZE1189 and it goes for $16.95 + shipping. So nothing to worry about :) The expensive parts are the base and the two "legs" and those will be included for sure with any PDK-1015 that you buy. If it's a new-in-box PDK-1015, then it'll have everything that you need to use it with the KRP-600M !

I don't know for 100% sure, but I would NOT trust AVinDemand. There's an outside chance that they are legit. But if you dig for their address and then look it up on Google Maps, it's a residential house in a residential neighborhood, so that's a BAD sign ;) They also only have a few dozen testimonials and every single one of them is positively glowing. Sadly, in this day and age, that's a red flag too. Real people leave extremely short, sometimes nearly unintelligible feedback or else they complain. When every single feedback is positive and well-written? That smells FAKE :p

PlasmaConcepts should be fine. They're showing "out of stock" though (doesn't mean it is...sometimes things are in stock when it says that they're not and sometimes they're out of stock when it says they're available). You could certainly give them a call to find out. Don't expect free shipping though. They might say "free shipping", but on a fragile-to-ship TV like this, most will insist upon in-home delivery, which always costs about $200.

I would highly recommend buying from BestBuyPCS though. They're a good company...I've dealt with them personally. They're still showing the KRP-600M "in stock" although I would say that you definitely need to double check on that with a phone call. They will insist on the $200 in-home shipping and that is a good thing :) They'll ask you if you want warranty coverage. That's always a bit of a pain, but at least it's also a sign of a legit retailer (scams never offer extended warranties ;) ). Never had any problem with turning down the extended warranty with them myself. We even laughed about how - if the device doesn't break right away, it never will until 10 years later when ALL warranties have expired! Anywho, good folks there at BestBuyPCS and they're showing a darn good price on the KRP-600M, so I give my full recommendation to buying there.

Best of luck! It sounds like you're on the path to the KRP-600M, which is awesome for you! :D I can pretty much guarantee, when you see the KRP-600M in your own home, you'll have zero regrets about spending the extra money. I know, first hand, how tough it can be to go over your intended budget and worry about regretting it later. But sometimes, spending that little bit more really does pay for itself and is totally worth it once you experience the results. This is one of those times :)
 
M

musta9

Junior Audioholic
Thanks I ordered the KRP-600M - now I am just holding my breath hoping for everything to be OK
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Congrats!

You are going to LOVE this monitor! There are certain - rare - things in life that just get every detail right. And when you have that kind of experience, you instantly know that you made the right decision :)

I've owned many, many pieces of home theatre gear in my life. With the majority of them, I constrained myself in terms of budget. I went looking for the "bang-for-the-buck" items. They've all been - at the worst - decent, and - at best - pretty darn good. But I have always found certain little things to nit pick, or come to dislike some of my purchases over time.

In recent times, I have decided to change my approach and attitude and forego compromises. I look at all the money I have spent on products that never quite lived up to my lofty hopes and desires, and I realize that if I had simply purchased the products that I truly wanted, I would have spent less money overall and I would have been happier the entire time!

The KRP-600M is simply the single best display for you. And I am very confident that once you see it in your home, for yourself, you will instantly know that you made the right purchase!

So congratulations! I am very happy for you and very happy to know that you went for the highest quality picture possible! The Panasonic 58" V10 would have been that "bang-for-the-buck" choice. Certainly good and it would have been cheaper, but I truly believe that the lack of black level retention issue and the more reflective screen surface would have caused you to regret that choice in the long run, and would have made you wish that you had spent the extra money.

If you don't mind my asking - from where did you end up ordering?

I always love to hear the story of the buying experience, so I would love to know how your purchase went and if you were happy with your retailer's service.

Congrats again, and please let us all know when it arrives and you have some impressions!
 
M

musta9

Junior Audioholic
I got it through bestbuypcs like you suggested.
Thanks again for the help
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
You are most welcome! :)

I hope the good folks over at BestBuyPCS treated you well and gave you a good shopping experience. I know, first hand, the trepidation in waiting for your plasma to arrive! The shipping used by BestBuyPCS should bring it to you safe and sound though :)

A couple of tips:

- the outer box does have a label to tell you which side is the front, so that is a help so that you can face it the correct way when you unbox it ;)

- the packing material inside presses up against the glass screen. If yours is anything like mine, you might have a few marks on the screen from where the packaging was pressing against it. These marks are nothing to worry about. Just use the included cleaning cloth. Do not rub hard and do not rub in circles. Just a gentle back and forth wipe with the cloth will remove the marks on the screen ;)

- I'm not at all a fan of the instructions that come with the PDK-1015 stand! The instructions say to lay the plasma on a table, literally on its glass face! I would NEVER recommend doing that! Instead, get two friends to help you out. Two people can easily lift the monitor straight up an then the third person can align the "legs" of the stand to slot into the mounting holes on the bottom of the plasma.

- do a quick check of the plasma before you go to all the trouble of attaching the stand and placing it on the shelf. If you are looking at the glass screen, on the bottom left side is the hard power switch and the standby/on button is on the right side. So before mounting the monitor on its stand, just power on the plasma and connect something to its HDMI inputs to make sure that everything is in working order.

Enjoy the hell out of your new display! :D
 
M

musta9

Junior Audioholic
Thanks
Should I try powering it up right when it is delivered before signing for it or do I just need to inspect that nothing is got broken in transport?
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
If you're able to power it up and just do a really quick check that it's all in working order, that would be best. But with a legitimate dealer, it isn't a huge deal. Insist upon opening the box - all you have to do is cut the straps and lift :) - and making sure that the screen is not cracked. Physical damage is shipping damage, so you want to make sure that there is no physical damage before you let the shipping guys leave. But something like the Monitor not turning on or an input that doesn't work - electrical things like that are covered under warranty.

So if the shipping guys are nice, it certainly never hurts to plug it in and do a full check while they're there. But if they say they need to leave quickly, just insist upon a physical inspection and if it looks fine physically, it's ok to let them leave.

If they need a signature, ALWAYS indicate "possible concealed damage". That basically covers your *** and gives you a minimum 24 hours to report any damage that you might discover after the shipping guys are gone.

So, hopefully it all arrives just fine! It should. Cracked screens pretty much only happen when lazy/stupid shippers lay the box flat on its side. This happens quite a bit with flat panel displays, despite all the warnings on the boxes to always keep them upright! But, so long as the shippers keep it upright, there shouldn't be any problem. :)
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
musta9/First Reflection, bit of info please.

I'm helping a good friend with his first real HT, as he's moving into his first home this month. Of course, I've convinced him of plasma, after a lot of stupid arguing, and he's most likely going with the 65" V10.

However, I also let him know about this particular KRP600M deal. To clarify, this is the "euro" designation for the . . . 141? When I told him that's what I believed, he was worried about wattage ratings, and stuff. It's plug n play in the US, yes?

So, I was next to a Best Buy this week, and decided to stop in. They actually had 111, 151, and 141 on display, as well as the 65" V10. Man, their asking prices are insane. $5200, $6500, $7000, $4000, respectively IIRC.

I only stopped in to check pricing, and upon asking, they further investigated stock in the nearby areas, but they weren't offering any significant discount. Maybe 1k off for the 141 demo on the wall, that's been up for 2 months.

The 141 looked best, in its own dedicated Magnolia room. The 151/111 were right above/below each other, and didn't look as great because it was given an HDTV feed. The V10 was playing Ratatouille, and I'm afraid the settings were cranked, and so I can't say anything about what I found as inaccurate colors, oversaturation, obfuscation of black detail. I'm familiar with Panny plasmas, and how fantastic they can look, so I knew something was wrong when their best TV ever made looked like that.

Anyhoo, I'm nearly 100% certain my friend is going Pana, but I just wanted to be armed with more info regarding the KRP when advising him.

TYVM.

edit: I realize it should be voltage rating, not wattage; his words not mine. :D
 
Last edited:
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Hey there, jostenmeat

The KRP-600M is a North American model. The KRP-600A was the original European version.

For all intents and purposes, they were both the "Pro AV" version of the Kuro Signature Elite PRO-141FD.

Things are a little confusing, but basically, after Pioneer halted all production of Kuro displays, they started selling off all of their inventory and not worrying so much about limiting certain models to certain distribution channels. The KRP models were basically aimed at the commercial industry - like the displays you'd see on newscasts or sports recap shows...that sort of thing. As such, they came without any of the consumer "frills" such as tuners, speakers, stands or a large number of inputs.

But the actual plasma display panels themselves are exactly the same as the Signature Elite models, which were aimed at high-end consumer installers.

So...here's the break down:

The PDP-xx20FD models were the "low end" consumer models that you could buy at regular "big box" stores. They had a slightly different (cheaper) colour filter, they didn't have very many calibration controls and they didn't have 100% accurate colour reproduction. But they came with a stand, tuners and speakers and they could use their ethernet connection to stream content over your home network (pictures and music from your PC).

The PRO-111FD/151FD were the Elite consumer models - mostly offered through "high end" stores to begin with. They had the better colour filter, lots of calibration controls (including ISFccc), very accurate colour reproduction. And just like the PDP-xx20FD models, they came with a stand, speakers, tuners and network content streaming via ethernet.

The PRO-101FD/141FD were the Signature Elite models - pretty much aimed exclusively at custom installers. They had hand-picked panels and filters, a physically thinner cabinet, lots of calibration controls (ISFccc again), very accurate colour. But unlike the PDP and Elite models, the Signature Elites were monitors only. They came with no stand, no speakers and no tuners. But they still included the network content streaming via ethernet.

So all of those were aimed at consumers. They all had 4 HDMI inputs. And as you went from the PDP models to the Elite models to the Signature Elite models, the suggested retail prices went up and up.

But the commercial market just wants good displays with no frills or extras. Enter the KRP models!

The KRP-500M/600M are the same basic design as the Signature Elite monitors. But they are stripped to just the basics.

So no hand-picked panels and filters (although they are the exact same design and it is debatable whether there is any difference what-so-ever). There are no ISFccc calibration controls (although there is an unauthorized "patch" out there, which activates the ISFccc, but voids your warranty). The ethernet connection is strictly for monitoring the panels performance with a web app. So there is no network content streaming with the KRP models. And they only have 2 HDMI inputs - although they add a DVI input.

The European KRP-500A/600A models were a little bit different in that they had the ISFccc available right out of the box and are intended for the European 220V electrical standard that your friend is worried about ;)

So! Long story short, the KRP-600M is Pioneer's best plasma display - equal to the PRO-141FD, but just without a few extra frills that the commercial market didn't need or want. And for giving up 2 HDMI inputs, ISFccc, network content over ethernet and the fancy "Signature Elite" badge, you get a much lower price tag!

Magnolia is basically still trying to sell the Kuro displays at the full MSRP. The prices you listed are full MSRP and even for those very same models, you can find significantly lower prices from online vendors. But even the lowest legitimate prices are not as low as the price for the KRP-600M.

Now, the best choice for your friend depends upon his room and viewing conditions. If his room is well-lit, I would say that, once again, a Kuro plasma is the better choice because of the better anti-reflective screen surface and the better black level retention. But if his room is dim or dark, I have zero problem in recommending the Panasonic V10. The slightly more reflective screen surface and the lack of black level retention in a well-lit room are really my only two knocks against the V10 plasmas! In all other aspects, they are equal or very nearly equal to the Elite, Signature Elite and KRP Kuro plasmas. And depending on the distance from your friend's eyes to the screen, those extra 5 diagonal inches could make a considerable difference!

I pushed hard for musta9 to get the Kuro because his particular viewing conditions made a Kuro the absolute best choice. But that isn't necessarily the case for everyone. I think extremely highly of the Panasonic V10 plasmas. It's just that in a well-lit or bright room, they don't look as good as a Kuro ;)

So first and foremost, figure out the lighting conditions in your friend's room. If it is well-lit or bright, I would push for a Kuro. And strictly due to price, the KRP-600M becomes a top choice. But if your friend can afford a PRO-141FD or PRO-151FD, there's certainly no down side to either of those!

If the room is dim or dark, I've zero problem with recommending the V10.

Hope that's helpful!
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Thank you. I've already sent the information along. He DOES usually have the lights on, and I told him about the differences with glare that I've read about. However, I can land for him the 65v10 for about $600 less than the 600m, and that's his reasoning atm. What can I say... all I can do is to help him be as informed as possible. (I just don't want him to complain to me; covering my bases!). I will say that the extra 5" does make the v10 quite impressive in that regard (tad over 17% increase in display size).
 

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