Starting from Scratch, but Room Constraints

[David1899]

I'm starting a system from scratch, but the home I've purchased doesn't have a room to dedicate to a home theater. So, I'm doing the best I can in our living room. It's a large room with 14' foot ceilings. The couches are about 4' off the back wall and a good 10' from the front wall. Since I'm aiming for surround sound, my main concern (at least starting out) is this:

There are no side walls in the room. To the left there is no wall. The room opens into another room. The right "wall" is solid glass.

So, considering I'm not going to be able to have anything coming from the sides, should I opt for ceiling speakers? Is it worth the effort to wire the rear wall or am I better off sticking with right, left and center only? Are there any good in-wall options?

I'd like to keep the whole thing under $1,500, but would go a little higher for leaps and bounds improvement...

Thanks for the help.

 

[AVRat]

What exactly is the "whole thing"? Receiver + 5.1 setup? 4' off the back wall is a good thing! I'd say 14' is a little high for in-ceilings. I think on/in-walls would work best for the surrounds. Something like the Ascend Acoustics HTM-200 comes to mind.

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/htm200/htm200.html

 

[David1899]

Thanks for the response. By "whole thing" I mean receiver and speakers. Sorry. Learning as I go here.

As far as 5.1, that's what I'm trying to ask. Given that I can only direct sound from:

Front of the room
Directly behind
Ceiling

What kind of setup should I aim for? 5.1? Other?

Any equipment recommendations are welcome.

Thanks again.

 

[AVRat]

One of these 5.1 systems (https://svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm) would work nicely paired with an Onkyo 607. The downside about the speakers, for me, is that they’re a little deep for wall mounting. I’d prefer the HTM-200s I mentioned previously. An SVS 3.1 with the HTM-200s and the Onkyo should still be close to budget. BTW, don’t worry about the mismatched speakers especially for the surrounds.

And if you’d like to explore the in-wall option for surrounds, these would be a good choice. http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/NEW-Intimus-6-IW-In-Wall-Speaker,224,31,700.aspx

How wide is the wall behind the couch? 7' - 10' spacing between surrounds on the back wall would be good.

 

[lsiberian]

If she'll tolerate behringer 2030p's they are very good speakers with a very good price.

For surrounds look at KEF eggs. I love mine.

www.accessories4less.com

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/KEFHTS3001SLV/KEF/HTS3001-Satellite-Speaker-in-Silver-pair/1.html

They are the best pair of small surrounds I've ever heard. I even used them for mains at one point(during my Madisound build)

If you are interested in building your own that's another fun route.


The SVS speakers are good for home theater. Their subs are amazing for commercial products.

The Behringer's will have better sound quality but may not have the aesthetics for your room. Post some photos of your room so we can get a better idea.

 

[David1899]

Thanks for the help guys. I'd like to clarify a couple of things:

When asking for recommendations, a common question seems to be "Is your priority 'movie' sound or music?" I'm looking for "movie" performance.

Per my better half, rear speakers are going to have to be in-wall. Front speakers can be in wall or not. Any benefit in matching front L/R with the surrounds?

I'll measure the room and put up some photos.

Saw a recommendation for an Onkyo 607. Any other receiver suggestions, or is that the way to go? Again, I'm looking to spend around $1500, but if an extra $200-$300 will make a huge difference in quality/performance I'll go there.

Thanks again for all of the help.

 

[AVRat]

Thought we'd lost you. No, no real benefit to matching the in-wall surrounds. You wouldn't hear much difference in a slightly more expensive receiver. The extra cash could go into better speakers like Ascend Acoustics CBM -170/CMT-340C. They're more sensitve than the SVS so the receiver won't need as much power to drive them to the same volume level.

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170.html
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340c/cmt340c.html

 

[David1899]

So, here's what I'm looking at per the recommendations above:

Pair of Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE Bookshelfs

One Ascend Acoustics CMT-340 SE Center

Two Aperion Audio Intimus 6-IW In-Walls for Surrounds

Onkyo TX-SR607 Receiver

That puts me at around $1350 so that's good. My next two questions (from reading articles on here and others):

1. Do I need to worry about tonal inconsistencies with the speakers I've listed? That concept is above my head but some articles say it is very important when "mixing and matching" speakers...

2. What about a sub? Given that the room I'm in is large and very open, I get the impression two subs is the way to go. I understand that is not in the budget I outlined, but could you recommend a sub (quality commensurate with the speakers/receiver I've listed)? Again, I think I'll ultimately need two (from what I've read) if that has any effect on a recommendation...

I've learned a lot from the site and your help. I appreciate all the help...

 

[lsiberian]

So, here's what I'm looking at per the recommendations above:

Pair of Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE Bookshelfs

One Ascend Acoustics CMT-340 SE Center

Two Aperion Audio Intimus 6-IW In-Walls for Surrounds

Onkyo TX-SR607 Receiver

That puts me at around $1350 so that's good. My next two questions (from reading articles on here and others):

1. Do I need to worry about tonal inconsistencies with the speakers I've listed? That concept is above my head but some articles say it is very important when "mixing and matching" speakers...

2. What about a sub? Given that the room I'm in is large and very open, I get the impression two subs is the way to go. I understand that is not in the budget I outlined, but could you recommend a sub (quality commensurate with the speakers/receiver I've listed)? Again, I think I'll ultimately need two (from what I've read) if that has any effect on a recommendation...

I've learned a lot from the site and your help. I appreciate all the help...

1. You'll be fine I can't hear anything in my setup like you described and I'm finicky about sound.

2. You'll need something, but I don't want you getting divorced or in debt over this. That would be stupid. However you may be able to save by going with the refurb 606 from Onkyo.

The Ascends you selected are very good speakers and have the best build quality in their class as far as I know. You have made some very wise choices so far. I can see this wrapping up to be a boon of a purchase for you.

With only 150 left in your budget you might be best to save you money up until you can get a really nice sub. I don't suggest dual subs until you at least are to the price range of having a great first sub.

If you can't wait then pick up a Dayton 12" from the Ah store. They aren't amazing, but they are still nice for the price.

I want to complement you on your choices. You really are doing this right.

 

[David1899]

Haha... no, I don't think she's ready to give up on me yet (at least not for surround sound).

I'm willing to go a couple hundred over, especially if I can get a quality (again, relative to my other choices) sub. So, if say, $400, will get me there, then I'd like to go ahead and purchase a sub as well. Anything worth while in the that price range?

Thanks again for your help and for the compliment. Honestly, though, I've worked heavily from the advice I've received here so I can't take much credit. The more I read the more interested I am, so I'll be around. I appreciate all of the good advice and I'm very impressed how helpful you guys are.

 

[David1899]

Something like SVS PB10–NSD maybe?

 

[jostenmeat]

So, here's what I'm looking at per the recommendations above:

Pair of Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE Bookshelfs

One Ascend Acoustics CMT-340 SE Center

Two Aperion Audio Intimus 6-IW In-Walls for Surrounds

Onkyo TX-SR607 Receiver

Would you consider a 170 center speaker, upright, and ideally, on the same plane, and equidistant to boot? It is the best choice, so far as being the perfect match, and offering ideal horiz reproduction of audio (doesn't suffer lobing inherent to a horiz mtm). all drivers on the same plane offer the best panning as well.

remember horiz mtm center speakers exist for one fundamental reason only: aesthetic compromise.

after all, the 170 will be cheaper too. EVEN if it had to be horiz (which probably won't help much with it's boxy look), any lobing will only occur basically right at the xover point.

That puts me at around $1350 so that's good. My next two questions (from reading articles on here and others):

1. Do I need to worry about tonal inconsistencies with the speakers I've listed? That concept is above my head but some articles say it is very important when "mixing and matching" speakers...

matching is best, but compromises are absolutely normal. since they're in ceiling, there's very little you will be able to do with matching.

OTOH, the 170s are easily wall mountable. Is there space above the glass, for instance?

2. What about a sub? Given that the room I'm in is large and very open, I get the impression two subs is the way to go. I understand that is not in the budget I outlined, but could you recommend a sub (quality commensurate with the speakers/receiver I've listed)? Again, I think I'll ultimately need two (from what I've read) if that has any effect on a recommendation...

IMO, your budget precludes you from thinking about dual subs. For now, you're better off thinking about the best single sub you can afford.

 

[AVRat]

The SVS would be my first choice if you can swing it. For around $400, these are also some good contenders. Though, if your entire area is as big as I think, triple the 400 would be a good starting point for a more intense HT experience.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-1.html
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfmcompact.html
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=407
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=309

 

[David1899]

I don't have a problem putting another 170 in the middle if that's the way to go. None of my speakers will be in the ceiling, though. I'm planning on putting the center and front L/R on furniture. The Aperion in walls are going to be behind the couch (i.e. listening area).

The room dimensions are 20 wide by 17 deep. The center of the couch is a little over 3' off the back wall, so roughly 14' from the TV. Sitting on the couch, the lefthand "wall" is actually an archway that is completely open to another 20'x17' room. There is no way to close this off. To the right of the couch, the "wall" is nothing but windows. So, the surrounds must be on the back wall. That wall is just over 11' long before opening into another archway.

So, sounds like I need to just hold off on a sub for a while... am I better off using another 170 than a center speaker?

Thanks again, guys.

 

[lsiberian]

I don't have a problem putting another 170 in the middle if that's the way to go. None of my speakers will be in the ceiling, though. I'm planning on putting the center and front L/R on furniture. The Aperion in walls are going to be behind the couch (i.e. listening area).

The room dimensions are 20 wide by 17 deep. The center of the couch is a little over 3' off the back wall, so roughly 14' from the TV. Sitting on the couch, the lefthand "wall" is actually an archway that is completely open to another 20'x17' room. There is no way to close this off. To the right of the couch, the "wall" is nothing but windows. So, the surrounds must be on the back wall. That wall is just over 11' long before opening into another archway.

So, sounds like I need to just hold off on a sub for a while... am I better off using another 170 than a center speaker?

Thanks again, guys.

Yeah a 170 would be your best bet for a center speaker. For your surrounds make sure you get them out as wide as you can. I'd suggest on wall's if possible because I consider them much easier to install and deal with.
You don't need booming speakers for the surrounds just something that makes decent noise.

For your sub I suggest you look at audiogon for deals or go with an Epik Sub. I really like what I've seen from their designs and they have a very nice deal going right now. Not sure your location but if you want to trial couple KEF speakers as surrounds I'd be happy to let you. I'm currently paired down to 5.1 due to room constraints. Obviously you'd have to close to make it worthwhile.

 

[David1899]

Thank you. I appreciate the offer. I'm in Arkansas, though, so I think it would be a stretch.

What should I start looking for in a sub? Given that the room is 340 square feet and opens completely into another 340+ square foot room to the left? My goal is to go the two sub route, even though I can't do it now. So, I don't wan't to "overinvest" in a single sub. I'm looking at subs as a pair...

Hope everyone has a good morning.

 

[AVRat]

You really can’t go wrong with either the 170/340 for the center.

I think these would be the minimum preferred units from these manufacturers for your space.

Elemental Designs A3-300
SVS PB12-NSD
HSU VTF-3 MK3
Epik Sentinel

 

[David1899]

Guys,

Thanks again for all of the advice. I met with an electrician/home theatre guy yesterday about wiring the system and I'm about to pull the trigger, so I want to go down the list one last time. Here's my "order":

Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE Bookshelfs

Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE Center (I was going for the CMT-340 SE Center but general consensus is it isn't worth the extra $. Is that a fair statement?)

Onkyo TX-SR607 Receiver

Two Aperion Audio Intimus 6-IW In-Walls for Surrounds (Although, since my surrounds will necessarily be more behind the listening area than to the sides, should I consider dipole speakers?)

Since I'm saving some $ on the center (and because I'm getting a little hooked) I'm still considering a sub. I've looked into the suggestions above and noticed that AVRat said the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus Subwoofer was a comparable (at least the the SVS PB12 NSD) sub on sale. I'm completely content to wait on a sub if the size of my room would benefit from a bigger/better woofer. However, if the Outlaw is "plenty" I'd like to take advantage of the sale. Thoughts?

Any suggestions on the wiring... things I need to tell my guy to make sure he does?

Thanks for bearing with me guys. Hope everyone is well.

 

[jostenmeat]

Guys,

Thanks again for all of the advice. I met with an electrician/home theatre guy yesterday about wiring the system and I'm about to pull the trigger, so I want to go down the list one last time. Here's my "order":

Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE Bookshelfs

Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE Center (I was going for the CMT-340 SE Center but general consensus is it isn't worth the extra $. Is that a fair statement?)

Vertically arrayed drivers are best. The 170 as center is the best possible choice for your center. Have cake, eat it. The ONLY worry I have is the placement. Please consider ideal placement. Truly ideal would be on the same plane, vertically oriented, not shoved into a resonating shelf, perhaps even decoupled from a cabinet (if there is one) with a Mopad or rubber feet or something. You'll have the perfectly matched speaker. Ideal horiz dispersion. If you're not pleased, return 'em!

They are a bit boxy looking; not the very sexiest. OTOH, I think you will be very pleased!

Onkyo TX-SR607 Receiver

It will power them just fine. Just about anything will.

Two Aperion Audio Intimus 6-IW In-Walls for Surrounds (Although, since my surrounds will necessarily be more behind the listening area than to the sides, should I consider dipole speakers?)

Dipoles are desired only if the consumer prefers that effect. Otherwise, monopoles are perfectly adequate, and further, they're not as expensive as dipoles.

Since I'm saving some $ on the center (and because I'm getting a little hooked) I'm still considering a sub. I've looked into the suggestions above and noticed that AVRat said the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus Subwoofer was a comparable (at least the the SVS PB12 NSD) sub on sale. I'm completely content to wait on a sub if the size of my room would benefit from a bigger/better woofer. However, if the Outlaw is "plenty" I'd like to take advantage of the sale. Thoughts?

"Plenty" can be interpreted very differently! LOL. It is a good price, good sale, and with free shipping, I say go for it. You can do a whole lot worse for a first sub.

Any suggestions on the wiring... things I need to tell my guy to make sure he does?

Thanks for bearing with me guys. Hope everyone is well.

People would recommend putting in conduit so that running wires in the future is facilitated. It just has to be thick enough so that things like HDMI can go through it.

I highly recommend Monoprice for both speaker and HDMI cabling. Just make sure the rates are very reasonable. Most any handyman should be able to do this for you. It doesn't have to be a "specialized AV dude".

 

[AVRat]

Yes, the Outlaw is a good starting point. Heck, everybody's expectations are different so you may be totally satisfied with just the one.

No, di-pole surrounds won't offer anything special. Just curious how far apart can you place the the surrounds?