President Obama's Speech to Students

[cfrizz]

It is WAY TOO early to start judging what he has done right or wrong.

Healthcare is an expensive problem that pratically every President has tried to tackle. And it's going to get worse since we are an aging population. SOMETHING has to be done, and it IS going to be expensive to fix. As well as Social Security & Medicare! Now if trying to get things to change for the better for these issues for EVERYONE is going "leftist" you've got issues.

And are you saying that not EVERYONE should have healthcare insurance? I hope you never end up being one of those someones that don't have it & have a major medical catastrophe happen.

Are you really going to blame the president because banks are now going to look for loopholes to screw you over with?

All you are really saying is just leave everything the way it is. That is until it is YOU facing the problem, then it would be a really big concern that you would want addressed pronto.

Everyone seems to forget, Obama didn't CAUSE these issues, he has simply been saddled with trying to fix them, as will the president that comes after him, and the one after them, & on & on & on!

"OUR" refers to the whole country. A lot of people took a chance with the new guy. He didn't win by a great majority so any talk of a mandate is greatly exaggerated.

And, since a lot of people voted against Bush, not necessarily for Obama, I'd say that many are not too pleased since he pulled a bait-and-switch by promising a centrist position yet going full left as soon as he got into office.

Simply put, a majority has not benefited from what he's done, and it doesn't look too likely they will. If anything, I'd say a minority will benefit but the majority will be paying for it.

I don't see too much happening to benefit Joe Sixpack. The rich bankers and financial people all got their bonus' and the unions got control of two automakers. He wants to "give" everyone health care but is nebulous when being pinned down on how it will be paid for. ...and yet he says he won't raise taxes on the middle class. So, where is the $$ coming from? All from the rich? Like that'll ever happen.

I will give him credit for attempting credit card reform but I notice some not-so-good-changes on my banking charges since then.

A lot of people don't like being lied to and this is their way of showing it. He simply squandered their trust and good will in less than a year.

 

[aberkowitz]

"OUR" refers to the whole country. A lot of people took a chance with the new guy. He didn't win by a great majority so any talk of a mandate is greatly exaggerated.

Mark, this is the second time in two different threads that you talk about Obama's lack of mandate. I'm going to repost what I said previously... I think it's time you started looking at statistics instead of repeating the same talking points.

From an absolute number perspective, Obama had the largest margin of victory since Reagan in 1984 and one of the top 3 margins of victory in the last 40 years (the Nixon landslide was the largest). While you make the claim that 53% of the vote isn't a mandate, it's the largest since Bush 41 in 1988 and is also the 3rd largest in the last 40 years.

Compared to the elections of the past 20 years, 53% of this country may as well be a landslide.

For the rest of the details see my previous post- http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=617241#post617241

 

[markw]

It is WAY TOO early to start judging what he has done right or wrong.

True, but you can see in which direction the train is heading and, with enough foresight, one can see the bridge is out.

Healthcare is an expensive problem that pratically every President has tried to tackle. And it's going to get worse since we are an aging population. SOMETHING has to be done, and it IS going to be expensive to fix. As well as Social Security & Medicare! Now if trying to get things to change for the better for these issues for EVERYONE is going "leftist" you've got issues.

And are you saying that not EVERYONE should have healthcare insurance? I hope you never end up being one of those someones that don't have it & have a major medical catastrophe happen.

Ah, I just love that good ole liberal rhetoric where putting words in someone's mouth is considered an honorable tactic.

I would like everyone to have health insurance, I'd also like them to have new cars, nice houses and credit cards that someone else pays for. But, not having a good response as to who pays for it, I'll hold off promising them until I figure it out. But if, like politicians, I knew that I personally wouldn't wind up paying for it, I'll promise it, too.

Are you really going to blame the president because banks are now going to look for loopholes to screw you over with?

Well, since they acknowledge that these charges are a direct response to Obama's credit controls, I'll say yes. He either didn't think to close the loopholes or intentionally left them open. In either case, while the banks lose a little on one side, they gain more on the other. Big banks still make more money and little guy loses more. Ain't it great?

All you are really saying is just leave everything the way it is. That is until it is YOU facing the problem, then it would be a really big concern that you would want addressed pronto.

Not true. I just realize that simply making promises is not adequate. Changing directions once elected is a bad move. You'll learn eventually.

Everyone seems to forget, Obama didn't CAUSE these issues, he has simply been saddled with trying to fix them, as will the president that comes after him, and the one after them, & on & on & on!

And he was elected on his promises that he could and would fix them without making more problems. Remember, he ran saying he was better than Bush, had great plans (but never elaborated) and people foolishly believed him. As it stands, he's just playing whack-a-mole with problems and our national debit will be an issue for generations to come.

So, the honeymoon is over. It's either put up or shut up for the dems.

The dems control congress and the house and they know that if they let him get away with his stuff, they will have a severe comeuppance in 2010 and 2012. They (and the ever more vocal public) know they can't blame the republicans anymore, particularly for the ever-increasing national debt.

 

[markw]

Mark, this is the second time in two different threads that you talk about Obama's lack of mandate. I'm going to repost what I said previously... I think it's time you started looking at statistics instead of repeating the same talking points.

From an absolute number perspective, Obama had the largest margin of victory since Reagan in 1984 and one of the top 3 margins of victory in the last 40 years (the Nixon landslide was the largest). While you make the claim that 53% of the vote isn't a mandate, it's the largest since Bush 41 in 1988 and is also the 3rd largest in the last 40 years.

Compared to the elections of the past 20 years, 53% of this country may as well be a landslide.

For the rest of the details see my previous post- http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=617241#post617241

And I'll still say that considering those who didn't bother to vote, and I thnk may be regretting it, it's still not exactly a standing ovation and an official atta-boy to do whatever he wants. The grumbling masses are an indication of this. Ever wonder how many of these voted for him and are now expressing their regert?

 

[aberkowitz]

And I'll still say that considering those who didn't bother to vote, and I thnk may be regretting it, it's still not exactly a standing ovation and an official atta-boy to do whatever he wants. The grumbling masses are an indication of this. Ever wonder how many of these voted for him and are now expressing their regert?

People who didn't bother to vote have no right to complain about election results or any actions the president may take afterwards, in my opinion. I can understand the fact that they are able to exercise the freedom not to be forced to vote, but if you cannot be bothered to take advantage of the fact that we do live in a democracy and have the choice of who we want to vote for, then I have no sympathy.

On a personal note, I voted in 2008, but voted neither McCain nor Obama- something that was fully my right.

You can claim woulda, coulda, shoulda, all evening- but the bottom line is that 9 million more people voted during this election than any other election in history. In fact, while the eligible voting population only rose by 4% since 2004, actual turnout of voters rose by 8% (and contrary to popular belief, this was not solely driven by african americans).

As far as the election results go, and as far as historical judgements of election results have been analyzed, Barack Obama was elected with a mandate- plain and simple. Whether people are now unhappy with his decisions is a totally different animal- the man is still the President. If people are expressing their regret, they will have the option of voting him out in 3 years.

 

[basspig]

Everyone should have health care. While we're at it, let's mandate that everyone should own a THX-certified home theater. Everyone should own their own home. They should own there own Hummer, too. Oh, and let's garantee that everyone gets to eat the finest French cuisine every day.

Now... who's going to pay for it all?


As you can see, we run into some problems. Doctors are not slaves. Students won't go into medical school if they can't be paid well as doctors. Medical care isn't free--it takes effort, technology and risks to achieve. Turning that all into a slave-driven form of servitude won't work. It didn't work in Canada or Europe, and I suspect it won't work here either.

The truth is, we are only entitled to what we earn. Nothing more.

 

[markw]

People who didn't bother to vote have no right to complain about election results or any actions the president may take afterwards, in my opinion.

Fortunately, in the opinion of the constitution, they are still allowed to voice their opinion. That's a great thing about this country. It would be better if they did vote, but how sure are you that the protesters didn't vote in the first place? Or is tha tjust an assumption on your part?

I can understand the fact that they are able to exercise the freedom not to be forced to vote, but if you cannot be bothered to take advantage of the fact that we do live in a democracy and have the choice of who we want to vote for, then I have no sympathy.

Tell that to the illegals who protest en masse for mmore rights. They don;t hav ethe right to vote and yet, ther they are. Yes, I know that's another subject but I'm sure you see where that comes from.

On a personal note, I voted in 2008, but voted neither McCain nor Obama- something that was fully my right.

So, what's you're point? You mad a valiant personal statement but essentially threw your vote away, you know.

You can claim woulda, coulda, shoulda, all evening- but the bottom line is that 9 million more people voted during this election than any other election in history. In fact, while the eligible voting population only rose by 4% since 2004, actual turnout of voters rose by 8% (and contrary to popular belief, this was not solely driven by african americans).

Well, since 95% of them, or about 38 million voters) did vote for Obama, I'd say they had a good hand in it.

As far as the election results go, and as far as historical judgements of election results have been analyzed, Barack Obama was elected with a mandate- plain and simple. Whether people are now unhappy with his decisions is a totally different animal- the man is still the President. If people are expressing their regret, they will have the option of voting him out in 3 years.

No, it was not a mandate. He was elected on a promise but lied simply to get elected. The grumbling and tense undercurrents are proof of that. That's the sound of a country realizing they've been sold a bill of goods.

 

[LabRat]

2 Party System

So, what's you're point? You mad a valiant personal statement but essentially threw your vote away, you know.

IMO, those who continue to support a 2 party system are throwing their votes away.

We need at least a 2.1 party system. How can ya party w/o bass?

Seriously, I couldn't in good conscience vote for the lesser of two evils again.

 

[cfrizz]

Ah, I just love that good ole liberal rhetoric where putting words in someone's mouth is considered an honorable tactic.

I would like everyone to have health insurance,...

Thank you for clarifying that.

Well, since they acknowledge that these charges are a direct response to Obama's credit controls, I'll say yes. He either didn't think to close the loopholes or intentionally left them open. In either case, while the banks lose a little on one side, they gain more on the other. Big banks still make more money and little guy loses more. Ain't it great?

Welcome to the world of big business, It's what businesses do. When one door gets closed they weasle their way in through another one. All Obama did was sign legislation that was already in the works. Blame the legislators for not find all the holes that businesses have lawyers find to weasle through.

Not true. I just realize that simply making promises is not adequate. Changing directions once elected is a bad move. You'll learn eventually.

And he was elected on his promises that he could and would fix them without making more problems. Remember, he ran saying he was better than Bush, had great plans (but never elaborated) and people foolishly believed him. As it stands, he's just playing whack-a-mole with problems and our national debit will be an issue for generations to come.

So, the honeymoon is over. It's either put up or shut up for the dems.

The dems control congress and the house and they know that if they let him get away with his stuff, they will have a severe comeuppance in 2010 and 2012. They (and the ever more vocal public) know they can't blame the republicans anymore, particularly for the ever-increasing national debt.

The only thing that I learned years ago is that ALL politicians are royal Aholes! NONE of them dems or reps are capable of truly doing what is in the best interest for the ENTIRE country.

How convenient for you to forget that the republicans had the country for 8 whole years and screwed it up just as badly! And you can thank Bush for most of that debt. Most of it brought on not only financial losses but also great loss of life which is still going on!

We can play this endless game until time stands still & none of it will ever change. I am simply going to live my life as I see fit, help where I can & not worry or ***** about **** like this.

Those of you who get off on arguing about this stuff should run for office if you think you can do better than what is currently happening. But guess what? You'll fail too.

 

[annunaki]

People who didn't bother to vote have no right to complain about election results or any actions the president may take afterwards, in my opinion. I can understand the fact that they are able to exercise the freedom not to be forced to vote, but if you cannot be bothered to take advantage of the fact that we do live in a democracy and have the choice of who we want to vote for, then I have no sympathy.

On a personal note, I voted in 2008, but voted neither McCain nor Obama- something that was fully my right.

You can claim woulda, coulda, shoulda, all evening- but the bottom line is that 9 million more people voted during this election than any other election in history. In fact, while the eligible voting population only rose by 4% since 2004, actual turnout of voters rose by 8% (and contrary to popular belief, this was not solely driven by african americans).

As far as the election results go, and as far as historical judgements of election results have been analyzed, Barack Obama was elected with a mandate- plain and simple. Whether people are now unhappy with his decisions is a totally different animal- the man is still the President. If people are expressing their regret, they will have the option of voting him out in 3 years.

How many of those votes were fake ones from the ACORN Lackeys though??


Seriously though, one of my co-workers feels duped for having voted for Obama. Why did she vote (or was enticed to vote)? "To be a part of history". She now feels bad about it for not educating herself first. It's her right to vote how she pleases, but has now realized she will never again make an uneducated vote.

By the way I voted neither Obama nor McCain.

 

[just listening]

Forgive my shotgun approach as I'm trying to wind down from a 20 hour day

I remember W promising that he would end the concept of "Nation-Building". Well, history tells us he lied big time if we use the same criteria as some on here claim about Obama.

To be honest, Obama has made a few stumbles, but he's also done some good. The Islamic world has a far better view of us, especially the young adults after his speech in Cairo. The credit card bill, like all bills has loopholes that need to be addressed now that we see how banks are adapting to its rules. Afghanistan looks to be a headache for the next 5 years due to the efforts of W. I'm betting that an additional 50-75,000 troops will end up in that country in order to drive the Taliban out once again.

The health care debate has been long overdue. On some points I agree with Obama, but on others I believe he missed the boat. Tort reform is necessary in order to directly reign in defensive medicine. Unfortunately, he just doesn't want to take on the trial lawyers, which is too bad. I also favor co-op buying pools for small businesses and individuals as a way to lower the cost of health care premiums.

I've hated deficits for far longer than some of you have been alive. If you look at Reagan he actually tripled the yearly deficits during his 8 years versus Carter (from $80 billion to $250 billion). The employment recovery from this recession will be slow. Obama is right about jumping on alternative energy as it will be the next great economic boom, however, he isn't encouraging universities to partner with corporations to advance knowledge.

I would like to see a delay in some of the stimulus going out next year. But as I travel up and down the west coast I've seen some of the much needed road work being financed by the stimulus.

Let us remember, the republicans controlled all three branches from 2001-2006. They had an opportunity to really address and change many things, but instead they ended up taking a big ol' dump. Now they're having to live with it. Anymore, political power in this country leads to amnesia. With very few exceptions they ALL forget what reasons put then there, and they end up playing for the sound bite instead of general good of the country.

 

[NicolasKL]

I hate it when conservatives talk out of both sides of their face. So it means nothing when H.W. did it but when Obama did it .........OH Ya that was different.....

 

[highfigh]

I agree, there is no reason to let children read books of any sort if there is even a chance that they will not understand everything literally and exactly as the author intended it after approval from all the parents on earth. After all, school is not for learning how to think, it's supposed to be where you go to learn how to be a proper upstanding citizen-clone of your parents.

Nice job of completely missing my point.

School isn't where people want their kids to learn core values- that's the parents' job. School is, theoretically, for teaching kids to think (hopefully critically), reason, socialize and the three Rs, among others.

If you go back and read it again, I was referring to the youngest kids, not the ones who can think a bit for themselves.

 

[aberkowitz]

Well, since 95% of them, or about 38 million voters) did vote for Obama, I'd say they had a good hand in it.

Again, like I previously posted, the african american turnout in 2008 was barely changed from previous years. African Americans represented 12% of the vote in 2008, compared with 11% of the vote in 2004... not exactly a monumental increase.

One of the biggest drivers of the election was lower turnout among Republicans. 1.5% fewer self-declared republicans went to the polls in 2008 than in 2004.

I think everybody on this board understands that you don't like the president nor did you want him to be elected, but that doesn't take away from the legitimacy of his election nor does it take away that he won one of the largest mandates any president has had in a long time. It's the same as George Bush and the 2004 election... just because his popularity plummeted in 2006, didn't make his election by this country any less legitimate.

 

[Rickster71]

From an absolute number perspective, Obama had the largest margin of victory since Reagan in 1984 and one of the top 3 margins of victory in the last 40 years (the Nixon landslide was the largest). While you make the claim that 53% of the vote isn't a mandate, it's the largest since Bush 41 in 1988 and is also the 3rd largest in the last 40 years.

Compared to the elections of the past 20 years, 53% of this country may as well be a landslide.

Keep in mind only 62% of all eligible voters actually went to the polls.
So the 53% you've mentioned is 53% of the actual vote, not 53% of all eligible voters.

See Map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2008_General_Election_Results_by_County.PNG
Libertarians like me had no real viable choice; though I still get to pay my taxes. Talk about being disenfranchised.

 

[Nemo128]

People who didn't bother to vote have no right to complain about election results or any actions the president may take afterwards, in my opinion.

I'm with George Carlin on this idea:

“I don't vote. Two reasons. First of all it's meaningless; this country was bought and sold a long time ago. The s**t they shovel around every 4 years *pfff* doesn't mean a f*ing thing. Secondly, I believe if you vote, you have no right to complain. People like to twist that around – they say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain', but where's the logic in that? If you vote and you elect dishonest, incompetent people into office who screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You caused the problem; you voted them in; you have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote, who in fact did not even leave the house on election day, am in no way responsible for what these people have done and have every right to complain about the mess you created that I had nothing to do with.”

 

[rnatalli]

Gotta love George!

 

[tcarcio]

I hate it when conservatives talk out of both sides of their face. So it means nothing when H.W. did it but when Obama did it .........OH Ya that was different.....

Your so original...............

 

[bombarde32]

And, since a lot of people voted against Bush, not necessarily for Obama, I'd say that many are not too pleased since he pulled a bait-and-switch by promising a centrist position yet going full left as soon as he got into office.

I find it rather humorous that on the security front he's actually continued many of Bush's policies. Surge in Iraq = surge in Afghanistan. Bailout wallstreet = continued ballouts and stimulus. Anyone notice that Guantanomo is still open? But now that he's doing it everyone is OK with that.

I actually like Obama the speechmaker. He's inspiring, sets lofty goals, fun to listen to, etc etc. And I truly believe he wants to govern from the (left-ish) center. The problem (imho) is he then hands everything to Congress for them to shape and ram through making him (essentially) a PR guy to cover what Congress is doing. And let's face it ... Pelosi and Reid have zero interest in legislating from the center.

Anyway ... this is all *slightly* off topic.

 

[bombarde32]

Tell that to the illegals who protest en masse for mmore rights. They don;t hav ethe right to vote and yet, ther they are. Yes, I know that's another subject but I'm sure you see where that comes from.

So what would the unemployment rate be if we actually built a robust and functional immigration system, then followed the law, threw the illegal immigrants out and told them to apply through the system like everyone else?