President Obama's Speech to Students

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cfrizz

Senior Audioholic
"Whatever the kids don't understand, the teachers in the classrooms can explain to them."

Right. With whatever slant they consider to be appropriate and without regard for what the parents would agree with. Like it, or not, it happens to a great degree and is a major player in kids not agreeing with their parents, IMO.

I'm not sure there's much need to put the youngest through this speech. They don't care about things like these, won't understand most and won't remember it.

The teacher's aids are more of a concern- I'd like to see that, too. He can change the speech to whatever he wants but if the book doesn't match, any agenda he wants can be passed on, and I don't care which party is in power.
Sorry I just don't see what kind of political slant could be made for getting a good education that EVERYONE needs in order to land a job later on in life to put food in their mouths. Reading, Writing & Arithmetic are needed to survive in the world, and these essentials have NOTHING to do with politics!

Without them, you won't be an intelligent Democrat or Republican. You will simply be an uneducated, ignorant useless waste of space that ALL of our tax dollars will get wasted on supporting through welfare.:rolleyes:

Well hopefully if the parents did their jobs correctly, their children WILL grow up to think for themselves & that will mean that they will not ALWAYS agree with what their parents think. Times change & so do ways of thinking about various things in life. And a good portion of that comes from a good education & being exposed to different ideas, cultures, and people.

Would you really want a racist or whatever to raise children to think that racism is ok? Or would you rather those children learn in school & in life that it is wrong. No doubt children were raised like this, but as they went on to HS & colleges hopefully learned otherwise.
 
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bombarde32

Audioholic
Reading, Writing & Arithmetic are needed to survive in the world, and these essentials have NOTHING to do with politics!

Without them, you won't be an intelligent Democrat or Republican. You will simply be an uneducated, ignorant useless waste of space that ALL of our tax dollars will get wasted on supporting through welfare.:rolleyes:

Well hopefully if the parents did their jobs correctly, their children WILL grow up to think for themselves & that will mean that they will not ALWAYS agree with what their parents think. Times change & so do ways of thinking about various things in life. And a good portion of that comes from a good education & being exposed to different ideas, cultures, and people.

Would you really want a racist or whatever to raise children to think that racism is ok? Or would you rather those children learn in school & in life that it is wrong. No doubt children were raised like this, but as they went on to HS & colleges hopefully learned otherwise.
*Preface* I think Obama's "stay in school" message is good and have nothing against it specifically. *end preface*

A school shouldn't decide when the parent, religion, etc is right or wrong for a child at any age. A school should provide kids with multiple view points and challenge them to think it through and make their own decision. Sure - racism may be an easy "right or wrong" example but there are many more grey areas.

Some subjects don't have inherent political bias. Math, reading and writing are great examples that you mentioned. Although reading is a grey area as I've seen teachers select a series of books to push a specific viewpoint.

I have personally seen science, culture studies, history and other courses used to push political, social and religious viewpoints and demagogue any who disagrees which is a shame. As an example, in high school I was ridiculed as a backwater Christian nutjob for probing the holes in Darwin. In college I was informed I am inherently racist, among other things, because I am a "white male." (boy was my teacher pissed when I blew up her whole argument by informing her I'm more Syrian than anything else :eek:). Although she had the male part right. :p

As you say ... school should be about educating people to handle themselves and be productive in society. Not indoctrinating them to a specific worldview.
 
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tcarcio

Audioholic General
If Obama wanted to make a dvd that schools could use as they and the parents see as educational then I would endorse that but to say he is doing it just to tell our kid's that they need to stay in school and get an education doesn't say alot about his confidence that Parents and teachers can do their job. IMO.
 
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bombarde32

Audioholic
If Obama wanted to make a dvd that schools could use as they and the parents see as educational then I would endorse that but to say he is doing it just to tell our kid's that they need to stay in school and get an education doesn't say alot about his confidence that Parents and teachers can do their job. IMO.
Just curious - was there this big an uproar when Bush spoke to the kids? I don't remember it if there was.

Looking at the state of some schools - both inner city and rural - there are places were that confidence is undeserved. Lets be honest ... there's places in this country where things aren't so good and a student's only real hope is to actively manage their own education b/c the teachers and parents are of little help or an outright detriment. Hopefully those are grossly outweighed by the places with responsible/involved parents and quality teachers but these days I'm not so sure ...

Ok ... I'm signing off this thread now. I seem to be ranting quite a bit today ...
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Just curious - was there this big an uproar when Bush spoke to the kids? I don't remember it if there was.

Looking at the state of some schools - both inner city and rural - there are places were that confidence is undeserved. Lets be honest ... there's places in this country where things aren't so good and a student's only real hope is to actively manage their own education b/c the teachers and parents are of little help or an outright detriment. Hopefully those are grossly outweighed by the places with responsible/involved parents and quality teachers but these days I'm not so sure ...

Ok ... I'm signing off this thread now. I seem to be ranting quite a bit today ...
I'd be careful making assumptions about parents and teachers. I can assure you there are a lot of very good teachers and they do outweigh the bad ones in my experience. Parents usually do the best they know how for their kids. Problem is most haven't been taught how to raise kids.
 
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bombarde32

Audioholic
I'd be careful making assumptions about parents and teachers. I can assure you there are a lot of very good teachers and they do outweigh the bad ones in my experience. Parents usually do the best they know how for their kids. Problem is most haven't been taught how to raise kids.
I'm not trying to make any assumptions. My dad was on school boards, my mom still teaches today. I know how hard most people in education work. Continuing ed, lesson plans, dealing with parents, grading papers, making tests ... Teachers shoulder a huge burden for this country and do more than most people ever recognize.

I'm just saying - I've also seen places where the exact opposite is true. I have no idea what the ratio of good to bad is. I don't have the knowledge or information to make any assumptions on that.
 
T

tcarcio

Audioholic General
Just curious - was there this big an uproar when Bush spoke to the kids? I don't remember it if there was.

Looking at the state of some schools - both inner city and rural - there are places were that confidence is undeserved. Lets be honest ... there's places in this country where things aren't so good and a student's only real hope is to actively manage their own education b/c the teachers and parents are of little help or an outright detriment. Hopefully those are grossly outweighed by the places with responsible/involved parents and quality teachers but these days I'm not so sure ...

Ok ... I'm signing off this thread now. I seem to be ranting quite a bit today ...
Check post #9........
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
The speech is nothing compared to the real problem:

 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Schools should be a place where people are challenged to examine different viewpoints and think for themselves.
I don't know if you noticed but that was part of the speech. I don't disagree with anything in the text of the speech in the link but too many in government have completely forgotten, or maybe they just disagree, that government is supposed to work for the people, not the other way around and I'm not the first to post this. All they want to do is give money away and act like it came from them, which it doesn't. They waste almost as much as they give away and it really comes from taxpayers.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
1) Sorry I just don't see what kind of political slant could be made for getting a good education that EVERYONE needs in order to land a job later on in life to put food in their mouths. Reading, Writing & Arithmetic are needed to survive in the world, and these essentials have NOTHING to do with politics!

2) Without them, you won't be an intelligent Democrat or Republican. You will simply be an uneducated, ignorant useless waste of space that ALL of our tax dollars will get wasted on supporting through welfare.:rolleyes:

3) Well hopefully if the parents did their jobs correctly, their children WILL grow up to think for themselves & that will mean that they will not ALWAYS agree with what their parents think. Times change & so do ways of thinking about various things in life. And a good portion of that comes from a good education & being exposed to different ideas, cultures, and people.

4) Would you really want a racist or whatever to raise children to think that racism is ok? Or would you rather those children learn in school & in life that it is wrong. No doubt children were raised like this, but as they went on to HS & colleges hopefully learned otherwise.
1) I meant that the teachers, who tend to be liberal, beat that agenda into the heads of the students all day, every day. Assuming that some of the kids' parents aren't liberal, that isn't going to fly if what they're told and taught doesn't include other viewpoints. Liberal parents would scream about conservative teachers doing the same thing to their kids and anyone who denies it is lying to themselves and anyone they tell that to.

There's nothing wrong with telling students that they should get a good education. Since when haven't they heard this?

2) How has this not been happening for decades?

3) Ditto- parents haven't been doing their job if kids hanging out in gangs, dropping out of school at incredibly early ages and being in the kinds of trouble they are is any indication. Clearly, not all kids will do this without outside influence and if they know the difference between right & wrong/legal/illegal and have any shred of morals, they wouldn't do this stuff but all someone has to do it read the paper, watch the news or go online for a few minutes to see that it's in every city, town and village.

4) This still happens. Also, like minded people congregate, so that bunch of losers who never hang out with other kids may just be the next Columbine shooters.

I don't know why, but your post makes it seem that you think I'm against kids getting a good education, staying in school, applying themselves and staying out of trouble. That couldn't be farther from the truth.

The disgusting way people treat each other should never be tolerated and when the courts are so backlogged that they can't spend the time needed to try people and convict on the real crime, people who have plead to a lesser crime are too often back out in a matter of hours, committing new and bigger crimes. If people would just stop to think that maybe what they're contemplating is wrong,...never mind. Some of these people will never do that and change their minds.

"school should be about educating people to handle themselves and be productive in society. Not indoctrinating them to a specific worldview."

This was my point. As an example, we had someone who went on to become a very liberal State Representative teaching history and social studies at my high school. She was rabidly liberal and at least one student was equally conservative. They got into some very loud arguments and could be heard far down the halls and around corners. It was somewhat amusing but also interesting to listen to. I don't remember hearing that she offered the opposing viewpoints and I don't remember hearing many versions of the way things are, either.
 
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markw

Audioholic Overlord


Describing someone as "rabidly liberal" doesn't really tell anyone anything other than the fact that you disagreed with her point of view. That doesn't make it right or wrong.

As with most things the extremes of anything is usually NOT the way to go, but fortunately, the majority of us are usually somewhere in the middle.

But for some sad reason it is always the rabidly whatevers that make the most noise & draw the most attention. And that's just sad, because then the main focus gets lost in all the noise.
Actually, I think that the majority of the time most of us are happy to just float along the currents of life with no extreme views.

It's just that when some see things happening that portend a quantum shift in our way of life to the detriment, we are galvanized to take a side lest we be considered one of the fat, happy cows that don't exert any influence over our situation. Without acting, we have no cause to complain about anything.
 
C

cfrizz

Senior Audioholic
1) I meant that the teachers, who tend to be liberal, beat that agenda into the heads of the students all day, every day. Assuming that some of the kids' parents aren't liberal, that isn't going to fly if what they're told and taught doesn't include other viewpoints. Liberal parents would scream about conservative teachers doing the same thing to their kids and anyone who denies it is lying to themselves and anyone they tell that to.

Could you get anymore vague? Are you just assuming that all teachers are liberal? How do you know they are preaching some liberal doctrine? Can you give an example please.

4) This still happens. Also, like minded people congregate, so that bunch of losers who never hang out with other kids may just be the next Columbine shooters.

How is this relevant to our current president or any president giving a pep talk to students about the importance of schooling?

I don't know why, but your post makes it seem that you think I'm against kids getting a good education, staying in school, applying themselves and staying out of trouble. That couldn't be farther from the truth.

Because I don't understand what you and some others are ranting & raving about! President Obama's speech had NOTHING to do with politics so what is the problem? That it is being given by a democratic president? Please get over it already. As someone pointed out, Bush did the same thing, good for him. hopefully he encouraged a few to stay in school & make something of themselves.

The disgusting way people treat each other should never be tolerated and when the courts are so backlogged that they can't spend the time needed to try people and convict on the real crime, people who have plead to a lesser crime are too often back out in a matter of hours, committing new and bigger crimes. If people would just stop to think that maybe what they're contemplating is wrong,...never mind. Some of these people will never do that and change their minds.

Agreed.

"school should be about educating people to handle themselves and be productive in society. Not indoctrinating them to a specific worldview."

This was my point. As an example, we had someone who went on to become a very liberal State Representative teaching history and social studies at my high school. She was rabidly liberal and at least one student was equally conservative. They got into some very loud arguments and could be heard far down the halls and around corners. It was somewhat amusing but also interesting to listen to. I don't remember hearing that she offered the opposing viewpoints and I don't remember hearing many versions of the way things are, either.
Describing someone as "rabidly liberal" doesn't really tell anyone anything other than the fact that you disagreed with her point of view. That doesn't make it right or wrong.

As with most things the extremes of anything is usually NOT the way to go, but fortunately, the majority of us are usually somewhere in the middle.

But for some sad reason it is always the rabidly whatevers that make the most noise & draw the most attention. And that's just sad, because then the main focus gets lost in all the noise.
 
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C

cfrizz

Senior Audioholic
Actually, I think that the majority of the time most of us are happy to just float along the currents of life with no extreme views.

It's just that when some see things happening that portend a quantum shift in our way of life to the detriment, we are galvanized to take a side lest we be considered one of the fat, happy cows that don't exert any influence over our situation. Without acting, we have no cause to complain about anything.
Who is this "OUR" that you are talking about? The question is will it be a detrement to the majority? Or will it simply be a detrement to the extremists who don't want change to happen that will benefit the most people possible?
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Who is this "OUR" that you are talking about? The question is will it be a detrement to the majority? Or will it simply be a detrement to the extremists who don't want change to happen that will benefit the most people possible?
"OUR" refers to the whole country. A lot of people took a chance with the new guy. He didn't win by a great majority so any talk of a mandate is greatly exaggerated.

And, since a lot of people voted against Bush, not necessarily for Obama, I'd say that many are not too pleased since he pulled a bait-and-switch by promising a centrist position yet going full left as soon as he got into office.

Simply put, a majority has not benefited from what he's done, and it doesn't look too likely they will. If anything, I'd say a minority will benefit but the majority will be paying for it.

I don't see too much happening to benefit Joe Sixpack. The rich bankers and financial people all got their bonus' and the unions got control of two automakers. He wants to "give" everyone health care but is nebulous when being pinned down on how it will be paid for. ...and yet he says he won't raise taxes on the middle class. So, where is the $$ coming from? All from the rich? Like that'll ever happen.

I will give him credit for attempting credit card reform but I notice some not-so-good-changes on my banking charges since then.

A lot of people don't like being lied to and this is their way of showing it. He simply squandered their trust and good will in less than a year.
 
R

redass

Junior Audioholic
"Whatever the kids don't understand, the teachers in the classrooms can explain to them."

Right. With whatever slant they consider to be appropriate and without regard for what the parents would agree with. Like it, or not, it happens to a great degree and is a major player in kids not agreeing with their parents, IMO.

I'm not sure there's much need to put the youngest through this speech. They don't care about things like these, won't understand most and won't remember it.

The teacher's aids are more of a concern- I'd like to see that, too. He can change the speech to whatever he wants but if the book doesn't match, any agenda he wants can be passed on, and I don't care which party is in power.
I agree, there is no reason to let children read books of any sort if there is even a chance that they will not understand everything literally and exactly as the author intended it after approval from all the parents on earth. After all, school is not for learning how to think, it's supposed to be where you go to learn how to be a proper upstanding citizen-clone of your parents.
 
basspig

basspig

Full Audioholic
Our local school board sent me a copy of the speech to approve or disaprove my daughter's viewing of it, tape-delayed, on Thursday. It was thoughtful of the school board to delay the broadcast by pre-recording, so that they could get parents' permission on this.

Now to the speech, I read it, and frankly, I see nothing underhanded, immoral, or Fascistic about it. It's a pep speech. Obama is asking students to work toward their goals, study hard, find a mentor if they're having trouble in school, and excel. He's asking students to think ahead 20, 50, 100 years, and ask what this country will be like, with the efforts of their generation in the mix.

What I did not see was any call to become part of a "Hitler youth" type organization. The entire speech was benign. And believe me, I read it with a critical mind, because I'm critical of O's government policies. I don't see any reason why my daughter should NOT view the speech, and I'm going to discuss it with my wife tomorrow.

While the president's economic policies are bad, we must avoid falling into the trap of inertia, blanket-judging everything he says as bad. It is an easy trap to fall into. But in this case, I have no objections to the content of Barack Obama's address to the schools.
 

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