DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[NicolasKL]

"No additional raffles will be completed until the two underfunded ones have been completed... "

The fact that there's contemplation of new raffles makes me want to vomit. I assume by underfunded they mean the ones for the LS4s that never had enough takers and are years old? What a scam. The guy sits on 5600 bucks for 2 years and as it sits I'm guessing the charities haven't gotten a cent, and of course no ones had a chance to win the speakers.

Not that the Ballet Company that his granddaughter dances for is a charity that would be high on my list of needy causes that I would feel compelled to shovel cash towards. I'm sure that the full retail cost of the LS4s would be deducted from the proceeds, leaving little for the Ballet company, so that makes me feel a little bit better I guess.

 

[TjMV3]

I love the choice of words.

'Error" and "underfunded".

Yeah, interesting choice of words

 

[Audioholics]

AFAIK you can provided it meets whatever guidelines. Here are some funny posts by people.

Somebody should make a text-inverter app for Jason Victor Serinus. You can faithfully take everything that guys says about an audio product or topic and invert it completely to find the truth.

 

[markw]

Comment of the day from that Stereophile article.

"Me no like that fat bastard. He sclew me good. Use my factory. Say it half his. He come China and sclew ladies. Bling them to USA and sclew them there. Him big plick."

 

[NicolasKL]

I thought "underfunded" meant the LS4 raffles, apparently I was wrong. The reason I thought that was because the term "underfunded" bears virtually no resemblance to what actually happened with the other raffles, but does somewhat accurately state what happened with the LS4 raffles. The people buying the tickets provided the funds, so they were fully funded. I'd say embezzled would be a little closer to the truth than underfunded.

But since MLS locked the thread about the LS4 raffles, he's obviously not talking about the LS4 raffles. I also like how the thread is locked and he says there won't be any FURTHER raffles. Newsflash, the LS4 raffle isn't a "further" raffle, it's a current raffle. One that put 5600 dollars into your pocket and gave everyone else involved nothing. Locking the thread is just a kick in the teeth to every single person that bought a ticket for it. Granted, it's not likely he's going to find 38 more people to buy tickets to a 2 year old raffle given his track record, but it's the thought that counts, ya know.

The guy should just suck it up, forget about the last 38 tickets, and give away the speakers. Instead he shoots himself in the foot. Again.

 

[gmichael]

Glad I got my Mini's before all this chit hit the fan. So far, no problems. (Knock on simulated wood)

 

[Chu Gai]

Somebody should make a text-inverter app for Jason Victor Serinus. You can faithfully take everything that guys says about an audio product or topic and invert it completely to find the truth.

Hehehe...he's a funny guy. You better be careful Clint that he doesn't harness the psychic healing powers of his and other like minded folks and direct them towards you through an inverter!

 

[SnowmaNick]

I was reading Niall Ferguson's The Ascent Of Money and a couple of paragraphs made me think of good old Mark. The first part is the translation off a memorial in Venice to John Law. The second part is Ferguson's commentary.

"'To the honour and memory of John Law of Edinburgh. Most distinguished controller of the treasury of the kings of the French.' It is a rather unlikely resting place for the man who invented the stock market bubble.

An ambitious Scot, a convicted murderer, a compulsive gambler and a flawed financial genius, John Law was not merely responsible for the first true boom and bust in asset prices. He also may be said to have caused, indirectly, the French Revolution by comprehensively blowing the best chance that the ancien regime monarchy had to reform its finances."

Now, I don't think MLS is a murderer (John Law was convicted of dueling, which he won) nor responsible for revolutions. The part that made me think of MLS was that Law had gone pretty far off the reservation yet was still receiving memorials for the very deeds that caused so much strife and chaos.

I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[stevo238]

I love the choice of words.

'Error" and "underfunded".

Yeah, interesting choice of words

Medicare is underfunded.
Social Security is underfunded.
A Mark Shifter Raffle is misappropriation of funds.

 

[MinusTheBear]

For the people still with unresolved issues you might find it useful to contact the better business bureau. Good luck to you all and I hope you get your money or product that is so rightfully yours.

http://www.bbb.org/

 

[Chu Gai]

It can't hurt, but I don't think AV123 is a member of the BB.

 

[MinusTheBear]

AV123 comes up using the search function. All I typed was AV123 and it gives you the company info. I seemed to not get anything when I typed Perpetual Technologies.

Edit: Both companies do come up and I think you are correct Chu.

 

[Chu Gai]

There are other approaches one can take MinusTheBear but afaik, few have taken them. I sense from what many have written, that they're almost afraid to make any noise for fear it might lead to bankruptcy. In that case, they fall to the bottom of the list and likely wouldn't get anything. It's a double edged sword there. On the one hand people have been screwed and likely acts that are criminal have occurred. They're pissed off and rightly so. Who can blame them, some who could use the money that's owed, the product they sought to build a system with, for wanting justice and payback. I would. On the other hand because of this fear that any action could precipitate the demise of AV123, they feel almost compelled to be relatively silent and wish for others to buy products in the hopes that profits somehow find their way to the monies and products they're owed.

Schifter is a friendly man. Engaging. He's a pied piper and comparatively surrounded by moderators/order takers that excercise a ruthless control over any dissent. Yet, there are many in history who were compelling individuals and either poor or corrupt leaders, bad businessmen, and the like. While it's nice to be friendly, sometimes becoming too chummy can cause you to not see clearly. I'm reminded of this quote by Redford in The Natural..."You're standing close. I can't tell if it's your toes I'm feeling or mine."

 

[MinusTheBear]

What I am still not clear on is whether the still unresolved issues deal with just the side dealings/graham or if there is still people waiting for product/refund from AV123 or both because it is very confusing.
AV123 has made it clear they want to seperate themselves from the graham company so how does AV123 staying in business have any real effect on those people getting paid back on what you have to take up privately with the CEO?

If there is any people waiting for product/refund from AV123, that would be a different story.

 

[Chu Gai]

At this point, who can tell? MLS=AV123 despite various attempt by his step-daughter to separate the two like when people would call or email to complain and she'd pull a Pontius Pilate, wash her hands, and say it's not an AV123 issue. You'll have to deal with Mark. And no, I can't reach him. Heavens! You probably couldn't pay an accountant enough to straighten that mess out.

Hugs...
I miss you...
All my best...

Chu

 

[Alex C]

Interesting thread.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Do you know if the people that pre-paid for the LS6/LS9 if those went through the graham company paypal or through AV123? Those are the people that have thousands of dollars in limbo. The point I was trying to make is AV123 will not make good on the graham company refunds so the only way for people to receive a refund from the side dealings is for him to sell of his his own personal assets or take some other approach. Which makes my point if AV123 went out of business, it still has no effect on him paying off the graham customers unless he declares bankruptcy himself.

 

[gonk]

I tried to request info on the raffle money, too, django1. I was as polite as possible (see the quote below, which is a copy of what I posted Monday evening), but it still got deleted within maybe half an hour.

I'm glad to hear that you have the watch, mfig. Perhaps the biggest question, however, is whether the raffle funds that were donated were all delivered to Derek. I respect Derek's determination to be nearly completely quiet on this issue, but there have been reports from both sides (Derek and MLS) that MLS failed to transfer those funds directly to Derek at the time of the raffle and there is still no word about the status of those funds. The main purpose of the raffle was to get that money to Derek. Getting the watch to you was just a bonus, in many ways.

I didn't get banned when I tried, but I was told that any further attempts to ask about the raffles would lead to a ban. I didn't bother to post at AV123 again.

 

[Chu Gai]

Those two raffles - Derek & Fabrikant - which were 'underfunded' were comparatively easy to determine. Hence, when MLS speaks to properly funding the raffles (God, it's just the way a freakin' politician double speaks!) he's talking about those two individuals. One cannot help but think that at least one of those raffles (Fabrikant's I think) was a 50-50 with the other 50 going to the children of some orphanage in Khabarovsk, Russia. In fact, there have been numerous raffles conducted for the benefit of that orphanage not to mention 'dear friends' that no one knows of. Those too need to somehow properly be vetted and I don't think MLS has any intention whatsoever of addressing those. For a man who is terribly fond of telling how many times he's been to Russia doing good work, all we see are pictures of Cali, some shipments, his dogs, his granddaughter Gracie. Not a one of him with the many children. Not a one of him being thanked by the director or whomever.

Further, I've always found it peculiar during those various raffles, and that also includes the Katrina ones, that he was always looking to hit a specific price point. There are various organizations and businesses around me and they have had various fund raisers. They've never looked to hit a dollar amount other than saying we've got X amount of time and we're going to collect as much cash and goods as we can during that time period.

BTW, as it stands now, this is probably the only ongoing thread on the internet that looks to address the many injustices that have been perpetrated against numerous individuals.

Gonk, maybe you should've emailed him directly?

 

[gonk]

Chu, I have emailed him directly. I'm hardly the first, though, and I haven't seen much sign of positive change as a result. After my post was deleted Monday night, I got a warning email from Kyle letting me know that any further such posts would lead to a ban and directing me to MLS's email address. At the same time, I got a PM from MLS about my post. I started to reply to his PM, but his inbox was full so I emailed him instead. In that email, I responded both to a comment from an earlier PM from him (detailing my perspective on AV123's current status) and to his most recent PM (focusing mainly on the raffle mess). He has promised me a response once he has time to digest all that I said. It was a long email, and I told him I wasn't in a hurry to see his reply. I don't expect any sort of useful response to the raffle question (frankly there isn't any really useful response at this late date).

One point that I think I made twice in my email was that reopening AV123's forum only to try to moderate it to eliminate all bad news was a dreadful idea. They should have left it shut - completely shut, classifieds forum and all - unless they were ready to hear both sides. Letting people post anything that supports the company (including the recipient of the raffle watch criticizing people for ever doubting MLS) but then deleting posts and banning members for offering a counter-argument or asking difficult questions is not a smart move in the long run.