Bass Pig's Lair Gets a Projection System

[Mika75]

I think reference levels just went up a notch....

Welcome to the forum Mark...

 

[Vinculum]

Wow Mark, You've been busy! Looks GREAT. Your system will now have an element of stealth with all those woofers hiding behind the screen.

Is that the Center Stage XD screen material? I received a sample of the XD material and it looks like the direction I'm headed.

Dr V

 

[basspig]

Thank you Mika75, I was beginning to think this was a dead thread.

I've got a ton of screen shots and more photos, but out of quota, so I'm at an impass, but I can describe what's been done since:

Center channel is up and running. That beast weighs 140lbs! Solid construction, took over a week to build it.

Left wing wall frame is built.

Had a friend over (a projector skeptic who is now a convert as of today) and we watched parts of my demo reel, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Harry Potter Order of the Pheonix, a concert DVD that he'd brought with him and a few misc videos. He was duly impressed.

Without the a/c it got so hot in here that my web server overheated and shut down. The wife is getting on me about electricity bills and the a/c is too noisy, so I'm thinking to get a new, quiet and energy efficient unit to replace the 1983 vintage model.

Gotta take the kid to the mall now...

 

[basspig]

Wow Mark, You've been busy! Looks GREAT. Your system will now have an element of stealth with all those woofers hiding behind the screen.

Is that the Center Stage XD screen material? I received a sample of the XD material and it looks like the direction I'm headed.

Dr V

Hey, nice to see you here!
Yes, that's Center Stage XD, and yes, it's ALL it's cracked up to be.
Just finished near field testing of sweeps and it's under 1dB below 15Khz and under 3dB above 15KHz in terms of attenuation. And it's bright, very bright with the InFocus IN82.

I've got new photos I took when I installed the center channel, with screen out, and that's when I also made the spectrum tests. Can't seem to upload anymore as my quota's maxed out. I may put them on my server and link later.

With a good turn of events, we may have the curtains up this weekend.


Back later... heading out to the mall now.

 

[Vinculum]

Hey, nice to see you here!
Yes, that's Center Stage XD, and yes, it's ALL it's cracked up to be.
Just finished near field testing of sweeps and it's under 1dB below 15Khz and under 3dB above 15KHz in terms of attenuation. And it's bright, very bright with the InFocus IN82.

Thats good to hear (no pun intended) Did you mount the material to the frame on a bias, or straight across? Commonly a bias is used on most materials to avoid moire patterns between pixels and holes, but I believe the high hole density on the XD material may negate the need to do this. I'm looking for real world feedback before deciding on my own needs, and I'm sure you would notice if there were irregularities.

Enjoying the pictures, keep them coming when you find a place to host them. I'm really interested in your upcoming subwoofer cabinets.

Dr V

 

[basspig]

I paid Chris Seymour $35 to cut it for me on a 14º angle. It doesn't eliminate moire, but changes the frequency of the interference patterns so that it is less obvious. In normal viewing, the screen seems completely solid, visually.

This whole project is all Ethan Winer's fault. You see, a month ago, he asked me to tweak his new projector, as he was having trouble with washed-out blacks and poor color saturation. So I figured, probably not much I can do, but what the heck, he's only 5 minutes away so it would also be a social visit.
Well to make a longer story shorter, by the time I was done tweaking, both he AND I were blown away by the plasma-like picture quality. My perceptions of projectors were turned upside down in fifteen minutes. And that's when I thought: "It's now worth revisiting the notion of installing a projection system." I wanted one ever since I'd been doing video producton in the 1980s.
So I went researching. I wanted to go one better on the shadow detail and overall brightness, which led me to checking a lot of very pricey projectors. Then I found the InFocus IN82, which dispensed with the frills like remote control zoom and offset, and put the engineering into a really super picture quality. I inspected screen shots and read reviews. And then I went looking for one. It was a $5500 item. So I turned to eBay. And, as if the video gods were smiling on me that day, I found one auction with one bid of $1399. I bid $1425 at the last second and won it. It had only 82 hours on the meter when I received it and looked practically brand new.
That's when the project started in earnest. I had to take out a lali column, build a false wall to support the screen frame and curtain wall, a center channel speaker and a whole lotta' other items. But now it's functionally complete and awaiting the finishing curtains.
I've decided to make the wing walls acoustically functional, packing them with fiberglass panels to make them act as bass traps.
I'm going to use the curtains for masking the unused portions of the screen, until a cinemascope lens is installed and/or a wide angle lens to bring the picture size up. I will talk to the InFocus people about maybe changing out the lens for a wider one, so I can fill 142" of width from only 13'. I figured even if I could move the PJ further back, it would simply force the seating to move back as the bottom of the projected image would come closer to floor level. Ideal would be to have the PJ only 6' from the screen and an appropriate lens to widen out the image. Then people could stand up without getting heads into the picture.
It's been ad adventure so far!

 

[Alex2507]

I was beginning to think this was a dead thread.

Not to me. I'm in RI. If you invite me over I will come over. Don't worry though, I'm not from RI. I'm just in RI.

 

[basspig]

You make it sound like Rhode Island has some sort of stigma attached to it.

We're getting so close to done that we should be having a 'grand opening' event next week. The wife is sewing the trandsom curtains as I write this. I got the right wing wall erected this evening. We're stapling felt to the framing where curtains will go, as a backing. Got one curtain up so far. It looks great.

No more speakers! The whole enchelada is hidden. Acoustics have improved enormously with the added sound absorbers. The rack must have about 900lbs of amplifiers in it now. I'm concerned that the rollers might collapse. Oh well, it's a Zero rack, the strongest of its kind, so hopefully it will hold. Moving it has become a real challenge though, as it twists and bends when pulled on, instead of easily rolling out. The BTU output from that rack is breathtaking. If I could duct it throughout the house, I won't need the furnace anymore!

Going to put some images on Basspig.com and see if I can link them here..

 

[basspig]

Here are some more pics, hosted on my server:

Here's the new center channel speaker, all 140lbs of it:

Here's the center speaker, installed, screen removed for maintenance:

Screen wall as of Aug 7:

Folks from all over come to visit my studio and hear this sound system. They come from as far as Okayama, Japan and as close as my home town. The editor from Stereophile was here last year. I'd like to have Peter Aczel of The Audio Critic visit, but he's all the way over in Quakertown, PA. Rhode Island is probably a 5-hour drive, since I'm on the northwest part of the state (Litchfield county).

The listening experience has changed radically with the addition of video in recent years. But now with the projector, it takes center stage, given that the sound equipment is effectively concealed from view. We no longer just sit and listen to CDs now. We watch movies and I love to show off the super resolution I shoot with the CineAlta cameras. One of my fun little demos is showing how much more detailed digital cinema is compared with film transferred to Blu-ray. The differences are dramatic on a screen this size. 90%of Blu-ray movies don't contain detail down to the single pixel level. So when I show footage that DOES have full on/off detail on the boundary of a single pixel, it looks sharp and clear as 20/20 vision, even on a screen this size.

My friend, Bill, estimated out that he would have to sit 8" from his monitor to get the same subtending of his view that he got sitting in the seating 8' from the screen here.

Next month, the digitally-restored and remastered Wizard of Oz is coming out on Blu-ray and my friend, Bill, is going to bring it over for viewing. Movie fans will recall it was shot with the Technicolor Three-Strip Camera, and the remastering involves scanning each frame to a 54MB uncompressed still, and digitally cleaning it up, reassembling the red, green and blue film frames from the three color strips of film and remastering into one humungous digital file. That Blu-ray disc ought to look amazing. I do wonder what they'll do to make the 1939-vintage audio sound better. Should be interesting.

The red velvet looks great. It's really dark because of the way it reflects light anisotropically, so it just blends into blackness when the lights are dimmed.

I rolled out a 5' x 12' carpet in front of the screen wall this evening. It is a remnant left over from the w-w livingroom carpeting installation that I saved for 32 years. Now it have found an ideal use as a light absorber and acoustic absorber. The sound is so dead in front of the screen it feels as though one has gone deaf. There aren't any early reflections anymore. This should make a nice difference in soundstage imaging.

So, a vision I have had for three decades finally comes to fruition.

 

[basspig]

Screen Shots!

'Was watching 2001: A Space Odyssey the other night. Tried to take some photos with a digital SLR, but the camera didn't have enough lattitude to capture the dynamic range of the scenes, so I got out the "big gun", my CineAlta and used a cine gamma curve to capture in excess of 12 f-stops of range. It took the images from that and this is what you see...

 

[Vinculum]

I figured Ethan had some influence when I seen the DIY fiberglass absorbers.

It appears you have half the ports plugged on your Bassmaxx woofer cabinets and single EV180 cabinet? Trying some lower tuning tests?

Looks GREAT. One of these days I'm going to make the 5+ hr drive myself!

Pickup the Bluray disc called Baraka. It was shot on 70mm film and transfered to 8k, then "dumbed down" to 1080 for Bluray. Its a fabulous demo and interesting piece of work. Search for it on Youtube for a preview. Have I ever steered you wrong?

Dr V

 

[Alex2507]

Pickup the Bluray disc called Baraka.

I watched this on DVD and it was really something.
Blu-ray would be something else.

A little review of our own:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54797&highlight=Baraka

You make it sound like Rhode Island has some sort of stigma attached to it.

Really ??? ... (read with full sarcasm)

I'm not important like the guys you mentioned having had over. I didn't even sleep at a Holiday Inn last night however I did recently get 9 pieces of Owens Corning 703 rigid insulation that your thread is motivating me to stuff into a speaker of hang on a wall. You are definitely on the wrong side of the state for a quick type casual visit. I'm gonna need to stay the week.

Just kidding. Everything looks fantastic. As a heads up I want to tell you to check your 'User CP' on the top left of any page to check the comments from positive reputation points that people may leave for you.

 

[basspig]

Hmmmm, that description in the thread sounds a lot like Koyaanisqatsi, which I have on DVD. Interesting visuals, to say nothing else. I'll rent it if I can find it.

Dr. V, those cabinets weren't designed for the Bassmaxx drivers. They were designed for Altec 3184 drivers. I've a new design on the drawing board that's more on the scale of Wilson's "XS" now. The port plugs were necessary to get the tuning down to 14Hz. I'm going to be building a scale model for testing; the idea is to have a vent area equal to all the driver surface area. The ZR18s want 34 cu ft of volume to have optimum alignment for sub-10Hz tuning. I'm planning on an unusual Hemholtz resonator with a broad bandwidth and low Q to extend the tuning's usefulness up to 20Hz.

It's fair to say that knowing Ethan (he's one of the nicest, most gracious and generous people I know, BTW) has brought acoustics back into the forefront of my consciousness. I've been aware of these principles all along, but seeing it at work in his livingroom just makes it more 'real' to me and seeing/hearing is believing. We're having "projector wars" now.. he and Elli are coming next Tuesday to experience my theater in all its glory.

 

[jostenmeat]

Oink!

Wow, basspig, you are one serious hobbyist to say the least. You seem to possess a wealth of knowledge, and to be next door neighbors to Ethan and Kal must be very cool. That would be a LOT of knowledge in one room about AV, besides other things like medicine and music. Ethan has always seemed like a super cool dude, from the advice I've seen him give, as well as his general disposition. He is even well known among non-AV hobbysits, namely musicians who need help in fixing up their DIY studios.

I feel you on the whole PJ thing. I got my first 1.5 yr ago, and there's really no going back.

btw, it's just my opinion, and even if I really enjoy the film itself, I do believe you can find better demo material than 2001. Yes, space scenes become a whole new thing when supersized in a dark cave. Maybe try Wall-E space scenes. The launch of Apollo 13 (only on HDDVD, I think) is impressive. Or even the recent documentary release, For All Mankind has incredible footage of the moon, considering its age. Speaking of doc's, Galapagos looks the best, by far, but it is in 16:9 AR.

Congrats!

 

[Vinculum]

Hmmmm, that description in the thread sounds a lot like Koyaanisqatsi, which I have on DVD. Interesting visuals, to say nothing else. I'll rent it if I can find it.

Dr. V, those cabinets weren't designed for the Bassmaxx drivers. They were designed for Altec 3184 drivers. I've a new design on the drawing board that's more on the scale of Wilson's "XS" now. The port plugs were necessary to get the tuning down to 14Hz. I'm going to be building a scale model for testing; the idea is to have a vent area equal to all the driver surface area. The ZR18s want 34 cu ft of volume to have optimum alignment for sub-10Hz tuning. I'm planning on an unusual Hemholtz resonator with a broad bandwidth and low Q to extend the tuning's usefulness up to 20Hz.

It's fair to say that knowing Ethan (he's one of the nicest, most gracious and generous people I know, BTW) has brought acoustics back into the forefront of my consciousness. I've been aware of these principles all along, but seeing it at work in his livingroom just makes it more 'real' to me and seeing/hearing is believing. We're having "projector wars" now.. he and Elli are coming next Tuesday to experience my theater in all its glory.

Mark,

Yes, Baraka is like a modern high def version of Koyaanisqatsi, only not as much time lapse. There are some fantastic shots of the Cambodian ruins of Ankor Wat. And the monkey men dance has to be my favorite!

I never seen those port plugs in your system before, so I thought I'd ask. I look forward to seeing your new sub boxes. I'm interested how the Helmholtz resonator will achieve low tuning with such a large cross sectional area.

I've had a projection system since 2002 and I'll never go back. A friend of mine has a JVC RS1 which is properly calibrated and it has no rivals! Have fun at your get together. I only wish I could charter a small plane and make it there! I did finally end up buying a diesel vehicle that gets excellent fuel mileage, so perhaps someday I can stop in.

Dr V

 

[basspig]

Mark,

Yes, Baraka is like a modern high def version of Koyaanisqatsi, only not as much time lapse. There are some fantastic shots of the Cambodian ruins of Ankor Wat. And the monkey men dance has to be my favorite!

That should be visually interesting. We just got done watching "Dinosaur" a movie I bought for my daughter, who just loves reptiles. Quite a bit of fun. Mary Ann is seeking out a BD of Jurassic Park.

I never seen those port plugs in your system before, so I thought I'd ask. I look forward to seeing your new sub boxes. I'm interested how the Helmholtz resonator will achieve low tuning with such a large cross sectional area.

They've been on there since 2006, late summer. I too, am interested in how the resonator will work. It will be a lengthy path and a very large box. Actually three paths of different lengths.

I've had a projection system since 2002 and I'll never go back. A friend of mine has a JVC RS1 which is properly calibrated and it has no rivals! Have fun at your get together. I only wish I could charter a small plane and make it there! I did finally end up buying a diesel vehicle that gets excellent fuel mileage, so perhaps someday I can stop in.

Even over last year's technology, they have come a long way! The contrast ratios, brightness, sharpness, etc. The InFocus can even be viewed with the lights on, albeit the blacks are not as deep. With the lights off it's... well, like those screen shots above. In fact it's far superior to the LCD that it replaced, aside from size.
Well, distance is distance.. usually folks generally call ahead when they have business in CT. Anything from VA to ME should be within 6 hours of here. Lima, OH is 11 hours. Raleigh, NC is 16 hours. Columbia, SC is another 3.

An update tidbit: The curtains are nearly completed and 60% of them installed. I have to buy some more U-channel for the lower curtain, but it's looking great, like I spent tens of thousands instead of tens of hundreds.
It's been a challenge to get everyone out of the house.. so far not yet, so I have a strong appetite for some serious shakedown!

 

[Seth V]

Here are some more pics, hosted on my server:

Here's the new center channel speaker, all 140lbs of it:

Here's the center speaker, installed, screen removed for maintenance:

Screen wall as of Aug 7:

Folks from all over come to visit my studio and hear this sound system. They come from as far as Okayama, Japan and as close as my home town. The editor from Stereophile was here last year. I'd like to have Peter Aczel of The Audio Critic visit, but he's all the way over in Quakertown, PA. Rhode Island is probably a 5-hour drive, since I'm on the northwest part of the state (Litchfield county).

The listening experience has changed radically with the addition of video in recent years. But now with the projector, it takes center stage, given that the sound equipment is effectively concealed from view. We no longer just sit and listen to CDs now. We watch movies and I love to show off the super resolution I shoot with the CineAlta cameras. One of my fun little demos is showing how much more detailed digital cinema is compared with film transferred to Blu-ray. The differences are dramatic on a screen this size. 90%of Blu-ray movies don't contain detail down to the single pixel level. So when I show footage that DOES have full on/off detail on the boundary of a single pixel, it looks sharp and clear as 20/20 vision, even on a screen this size.

My friend, Bill, estimated out that he would have to sit 8" from his monitor to get the same subtending of his view that he got sitting in the seating 8' from the screen here.

Next month, the digitally-restored and remastered Wizard of Oz is coming out on Blu-ray and my friend, Bill, is going to bring it over for viewing. Movie fans will recall it was shot with the Technicolor Three-Strip Camera, and the remastering involves scanning each frame to a 54MB uncompressed still, and digitally cleaning it up, reassembling the red, green and blue film frames from the three color strips of film and remastering into one humungous digital file. That Blu-ray disc ought to look amazing. I do wonder what they'll do to make the 1939-vintage audio sound better. Should be interesting.

The red velvet looks great. It's really dark because of the way it reflects light anisotropically, so it just blends into blackness when the lights are dimmed.

I rolled out a 5' x 12' carpet in front of the screen wall this evening. It is a remnant left over from the w-w livingroom carpeting installation that I saved for 32 years. Now it have found an ideal use as a light absorber and acoustic absorber. The sound is so dead in front of the screen it feels as though one has gone deaf. There aren't any early reflections anymore. This should make a nice difference in soundstage imaging.

So, a vision I have had for three decades finally comes to fruition.

Holy crap!! Just when I think I've seen a mega sub install, I see your setup! I'll bet those things literally rock the foundation.

Sweet system!


Seth

 

[basspig]

Wow, basspig, you are one serious hobbyist to say the least. You seem to possess a wealth of knowledge, and to be next door neighbors to Ethan and Kal must be very cool. That would be a LOT of knowledge in one room about AV, besides other things like medicine and music. Ethan has always seemed like a super cool dude, from the advice I've seen him give, as well as his general disposition. He is even well known among non-AV hobbysits, namely musicians who need help in fixing up their DIY studios.

We kinda' feel like our own private Mensa group.
Ethan possesses extraordinary intelligence, both scientifically and practically. He's also practical and free of any beliefs in voodoo, which makes us able to have meaningful discussions about anything. Me, Ethan and Peter Aczel are pretty much on the same page with regard to any audio science.
I've only met Kal once, when he visited my studio for a preview of the GBSO recording that I'd made the autumn before. He's got a weekend hideaway here in town.
Ethan is fun to work with, and he's been a key camera operator on most of my major concert videos. He knows all the cello section players in most of the orchestras in the area, too.

I feel you on the whole PJ thing. I got my first 1.5 yr ago, and there's really no going back.

No kidding!
It's a whole new experience, because, unlike sitting 8" from a monitor, there is a sense of space that you just don't get with near field viewing. A vastness that we sense, especially where there are huge dinosaurs with sharp teeth about to devour something, just in front of you.

btw, it's just my opinion, and even if I really enjoy the film itself, I do believe you can find better demo material than 2001. Yes, space scenes become a whole new thing when supersized in a dark cave. Maybe try Wall-E space scenes. The launch of Apollo 13 (only on HDDVD, I think) is impressive. Or even the recent documentary release, For All Mankind has incredible footage of the moon, considering its age. Speaking of doc's, Galapagos looks the best, by far, but it is in 16:9 AR.

Congrats!

Yes, indeed there are many great films, though 2001 is a personal favorite of mine. I love Kubrick's story-telling. He takes his time, draws you into the lifestyle of the characters and then leads you through the story. I want to get other films too.. The Dark Knight is one. I have The Prestige, which has a wonderful look to it--I just love the lighting.
We have the Blue Planet BD, and the wife wants to get the BBC Planet Earth series on BD. I have the BD Over America, but the video quality is earlier HD cam and not the best.
I can't wait to wow my clients with previews on this screen. Now I have a proper way to play the Blu-ray discs that I author.

 

[basspig]

Here is the present construction progress photo:

 

[basspig]

Holy crap!! Just when I think I've seen a mega sub install, I see your setup! I'll bet those things literally rock the foundation.

Sweet system!


Seth

Yes, and a good portion of the neighborhood, too. The bass below 25Hz penetrates the concrete quite a lot. A quarter mile up the road, I took an SPL reading and on the lowest (24Hz) bass note, I was getting 97dB levels on a CEL 241/1 sound level meter in flat position. That was scary and made me realize how much of a nuisance it might be for a wide area, so no more extreme testing after that June 30, 2006 experiment. It be forever indelibly marked in my memory!