ABC New to push National Healthcare

[Tomorrow]

It's like watching an infant tell a boxer that he's about to get his *** handed to him.

SheepStar

One of the reasons that this type of thread often turns into a train wreck is because of people who don't like what is being said, contribute nothing of substance to the discussion, and offer no (logical or otherwise) debate of the matter at hand. Their sole activity is to complain about the thread and offer personal insults.

Classy.

 

[nibhaz]

It's always the same people starting them, and the same people keeping them running in circles. How productive would a thread in the speakers section be if the members never agreed on speakers?... wait, that is fairly consistent with what goes one here. Bad example. You get my point. This thread is going no where. No matter how many times you bash the keyboard you're not going to change anything, not from here. Give it up, post something that has a bit of a positive spin on it. Seriously, I'm not the person that should be pointing this out.

Canada has a surplus of bacon, we dispense it from wall units.

SheepStar

Believe it or not some people actually like to have mentally stimulating debates. Granted we are on the internet where civility is sometimes lacking, but that doesn’t mean that heated topics should be avoided.

If you really don’t like it then stay away. No one is forcing you to read these post, and you’ve been around here long enough to know exactly what the thread is going to be like before you even click it.

No matter how many time you whine about these threads they aren’t going to stop. So by your own logic you should just quit complaining about them.

Can I get free bacon

 

[MidnightSensi]

All I know is I have supposedly good health insurance (Blue Cross Blue Shield), for if you get hit by a bus, but they don't pay squat for my drugs.

My adderall is like 50 bucks for a 45 day supply.
My ambien is like 100 bucks for a 30 day supply.
My allergy eye-drops are like 90 bucks for a 60 day supply.

So, basically 250 a month I pay just for my drugs.

My sister pays less and she gets more stuff.

...

When my dad had cancer I had bills into the thousands for drugs for him, after insurance.

.....

I don't really have any point in saying this other than to spur more discussion. I don't really have an opinion anymore on healthcare because its so complex to me I can't grasp it. On one hand I want drug companies to make money, and people to be healthy, on the other I don't see doctors being doctors and researchers researching if it wasn't for them making money on it.

 

[Nemo128]

I have BCBS too, I know what you mean.

Thing is, whether or not anyone wants to admit it, insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies and doctors make money hand over fist. As Chris Rock said, his neighbors in Alpine NJ are Eddie Murphy, Jay-Z, Mary J Blige, and a dentist that isn't in the dental hall of fame and didn't invent teeth.

The woman is an architect currently doing lab design for Glaxo, and she could tell you about the MASSIVE amounts of money they throw around on meaningless crap like moving desks and chairs around, yet they complain if her company bills them for $5 lunches once a month. Greedy, arrogant, pompous a-holes run much of the world.

And my horror stories know no end (mil R&D).

 

[nibhaz]

I have BCBS too, I know what you mean.

Thing is, whether or not anyone wants to admit it, insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies and doctors make money hand over fist. As Chris Rock said, his neighbors in Alpine NJ are Eddie Murphy, Jay-Z, Mary J Blige, and a dentist that isn't in the dental hall of fame and didn't invent teeth.

The woman is an architect currently doing lab design for Glaxo, and she could tell you about the MASSIVE amounts of money they throw around on meaningless crap like moving desks and chairs around, yet they complain if her company bills them for $5 lunches once a month. Greedy, arrogant, pompous a-holes run much of the world.

And my horror stories know no end (mil R&D).

Then you should, of all people, be aware of the sticky wicket that comes from government ran programs. They provide a necessary function, but usually at a highly inflated cost to the people. This cost inflation is almost always exacerbated by rushing the legislation that creates or governs a program. I’m by no means saying that this issue doesn’t warrant government intervention, but I will say I am scared as hell at the rate at which this thing is moving forward.

 

[gmichael]

I read all the posts and am still lost.

 

[Nemo128]

Then you should, of all people, be aware of the sticky wicket that comes from government ran programs. They provide a necessary function, but usually at a highly inflated cost to the people. This cost inflation is almost always exacerbated by rushing the legislation that creates or governs a program. I’m by no means saying that this issue doesn’t warrant government intervention, but I will say I am scared as hell at the rate at which this thing is moving forward.

Honestly, what I've come to realize is that the problem is never in the paperwork or the planning. It's always in the execution. The problem, as with everything, is the people. Until we, all, as a people, truly wake up in the morning caring about the common good and working towards it, we will be, as a species, waiting for our extinction date. It'll simply be a matter of what does us in first, ourselves or nature. Nature has my vote.

Can national healthcare work? I'll be the one to say it for all the arrogant Americans who don't have the stones to, LESSER NATIONS have done it and they are still standing. Right Shock?

If we're supposedly the greatest nation on the planet, and we are better than everyone, and we should set the example for all, then let's prove it and show those toothless hockey players with their "Ay!"s and "ah-boots!" and those tea-drinking fairy "chaps" and those white-flag-flying crepe-eating beret-wearing pansies HOW TO DO IT RIGHT! AMEEEERRIIIIICCCAAAAAAAAA, FUUUUCK YEEEAAAHHHH!!!

 

[Tomorrow]

All I know is I have supposedly good health insurance (Blue Cross Blue Shield), for if you get hit by a bus, but they don't pay squat for my drugs.

My adderall is like 50 bucks for a 45 day supply.
My ambien is like 100 bucks for a 30 day supply.
My allergy eye-drops are like 90 bucks for a 60 day supply.

So, basically 250 a month I pay just for my drugs.

My sister pays less and she gets more stuff.

...

When my dad had cancer I had bills into the thousands for drugs for him, after insurance.

.....

I don't really have any point in saying this other than to spur more discussion. I don't really have an opinion anymore on healthcare because its so complex to me I can't grasp it. On one hand I want drug companies to make money, and people to be healthy, on the other I don't see doctors being doctors and researchers researching if it wasn't for them making money on it.

20 years ago this week, I sustained a medical emergency that cost in excess of $1/4 million. I was just starting out in my own consulting business, was young, and wasn't insured as all my money went into the business. That medical event cost us everything we had and more. We were indebted and struggled financially for many years afterward.

Here's your question...because I chose not to insure myself, should you and you and you and you have been forced by the government to pay not only for my medical costs as an uninsured person, but for the huge bureaucracy that would have needed to be in place to accomplish said payments?

I think the compassionate amongst you would say yes. I appreciate that POV. But what is at hand in this debate is about the cost of government running the medical treatment show. Is that the best and most economical way to perform those compassionate deeds? I think not. I don't have all the answers. But governmental control over broad areas of our lives, such as healthcare, for certain is not the answer.

 

[Nemo128]

20 years ago this week, I sustained a medical emergency that cost in excess of $1/4 million.

I appreciate your entire post. To put your situation into perspective, $250k means each person in Newark NJ could contribute $1 more in their taxes to your particular situation, and your entire bill could be paid with >$20k in change. One city. In one state. One time. If you extrapolate that to $1/paycheck every two weeks, you would be able to take care of 28 Tomorrows. And if there's one thing we should want to save, it's tomorrow.

Sad truth is, that $1/4M is not even a realistic figure. It should not have cost you that much and it would not cost you that much if the system wasn't one put in place to generate money waving hand over pounding fist over your dead body.

Plenty of people have been in that position and pretty much would rather die than imagine a life lived paying that back while making minimum wage and not being to get so much as a community college education. I know people like that firsthand.

We can say all we want that our costs are higher because our standards of medicine are higher, but if we continue to excuse the practices of our various industries (transportation, medical, telecommunications, financial, energy), we truly deserve to get screwed.

If we can excuse the medical and pharmaceutical industries for their gross negligence of public health, then we should all hail Exxon/Mobil and Aramco and Shell and the like as pillars of success and bringers of progress.

On the other hand, if we can point fingers at each other and get mad because we as taxpayers would have to front the bill for medical expenses, then shouldn't those of us who drive 30MPG 4cyl economy cars be mad at all the 12MPG SUV and oversized sedan drivers in the world who consume so much gas that oil companies "need" to drive up the price of a barrel to keep up with consumption?

We're quick to hate the corporate machine when their gross overestimation of their worth hits our wallet (energy industry), but we're also quick to hate our fellow man when the corporate machine puts a pricetag on the value of a human life (medical, insurance, and pharmaceutical industries).

We CHOOSE to drive gas-guzzling monsters, but complain about paying high gas prices. No one CHOOSES to get cancer, no baby CHOOSES to born addicted to drugs, no woman CHOOSES to be raped and impregnanted, but we say it's their choice to not have medical insurance?

It is their choice whether or not to see a doctor. Live in debt forever, or die. Some people, myself included, choose death. Some of us are fortunate enough to somehow make something better of their situation and get into a position to make a decent living.

And if anyone is foolish enough to believe that every one of us can be in a position to live fruitful lives with gainful employment, please show me this utopia you live in where jobs are always plentiful and money is readily available to give every person such a life, because we all need to move there.

One man's success must be another man's failure. Fact of "civilized" societies.

 

[MidnightSensi]

20 years ago this week, I sustained a medical emergency that cost in excess of $1/4 million. I was just starting out in my own consulting business, was young, and wasn't insured as all my money went into the business. That medical event cost us everything we had and more. We were indebted and struggled financially for many years afterward.

Here's your question...because I chose not to insure myself, should you and you and you and you have been forced by the government to pay not only for my medical costs as an uninsured person, but for the huge bureaucracy that would have needed to be in place to accomplish said payments?

I think the compassionate amongst you would say yes. I appreciate that POV. But what is at hand in this debate is about the cost of government running the medical treatment show. Is that the best and most economical way to perform those compassionate deeds? I think not. I don't have all the answers. But governmental control over broad areas of our lives, such as healthcare, for certain is not the answer.

But people without insurance down here in Miami go to Jackson Memorial hospital, which is actually a really, really good hospital. I mean, you wouldn't want to hang out there, but if you get really hurt Jacksons the best place to patch you together.

I guess I don't understand the difference (and I mean that not sarcastically at all, I know there must be a difference, but I don't understand)

I mean, if you can get fixed at Jackson without insurance... whats the difference between that and national healthcare?

 

[gmichael]

But people without insurance down here in Miami go to Jackson Memorial hospital, which is actually a really, really good hospital. I mean, you wouldn't want to hang out there, but if you get really hurt Jacksons the best place to patch you together.

I guess I don't understand the difference (and I mean that not sarcastically at all, I know there must be a difference, but I don't understand)

I mean, if you can get fixed at Jackson without insurance... whats the difference between that and national healthcare?

Basicly, even people who choose not to pay for health care now would be forced to chip in.

 

[Sheep]

Question:

How does your health insurance cost you Per Month, RIGHT now?

How much will it cost you in taxes with Healthcare?

You know, you can drop the insurance when health care comes in, you don't pay for both.

SheepStar

 

[bandphan]

Question:

How does your health insurance cost you Per Month, RIGHT now?

How much will it cost you in taxes with Healthcare?

You know, you can drop the insurance when health care comes in, you don't pay for both.

SheepStar

for some its not just money but quality of care or lack thereof

 

[Nemo128]

Question:

How does your health insurance cost you Per Month, RIGHT now?

How much will it cost you in taxes with Healthcare?

You know, you can drop the insurance when health care comes in, you don't pay for both.

SheepStar

Oh come on, everyone knows that only the good ole Yoo Ess of Ay has quality healthcare.

*sells his first born to slave labor in China to pay for his colon cancer screening*

 

[Shock]

Aderall is an amazing drug they should be prescribing obese people.

I had a friend who was prescribed it for his "ADD" ( he was just lazy ) and he lost 40 pounds in 6 months.

The only bad part is at the 6 month mark your wang falls off.

 

[bandphan]

Aderall is an amazing drug they should be prescribing obese people.

.

They did for 25 + years untill the enough negative side effect manifested. I took it for about a year and the focus was amazing but I can see where it could cause major problems.

 

[griffinconst]

They did for 25 + years untill the enough negative side effect manifested. I took it for about a year and the focus was amazing but I can see where it could cause major problems.

I am sorry to hear that your wang has fallen off.

 

[Sheep]

for some its not just money but quality of care or lack thereof

Pretty hard sell considering I use that exact health care system. I won't go into details but a family member has been in and out of the hospital for the last 2 years, and we've never had any problems.

SheepStar

 

[Nemo128]

Sheep, dude, seriously, if it's one thing you should know, it's that you can sell ANYTHING to the average American consumer... ANYTHING. Think about it, we're fed bullshit on an hourly basis and many of us digest it like it's filet mignon.

BTW, doesn't Canada only have witch doctors who perform divine healing in igloos?

It's ok, since France doctors just blow cigarette smoke in your face until you're healed or you die, and Italian doctors just pour wine on you until you're healed or you die, and British doctors just smile at you and feed you tea and biscuits until... guess when?

 

[gmichael]

Sheep, dude, seriously, if it's one thing you should know, it's that you can sell ANYTHING to the average American consumer... ANYTHING. Think about it, we're fed bullshit on an hourly basis and many of us digest it like it's filet mignon.

BTW, doesn't Canada only have witch doctors who perform divine healing in igloos?

It's ok, since France doctors just blow cigarette smoke in your face until you're healed or you die, and Italian doctors just pour wine on you until you're healed or you die, and British doctors just smile at you and feed you tea and biscuits until... guess when?

Are you trying to tell us that NOT all Canadians are really afraid of the dark?