speaker wire question again

[mike c]

is it ok to put interconnects (RG59) and speaker wire in the same conduit?

i know power cables and other stuff are no-no's.

 

[nibhaz]

In a perfect world it should be avoided

In the real world, you should be fine

 

[Rickster71]

Since they're both considered low voltage, I don't see any problem.

 

[highfigh]

Since they're both considered low voltage, I don't see any problem.

If the amp is capable of high current and the speakers are low impedance, it can cause problems by induction. It's best to avoid long runs of any cable that's parallel to low level conductors. Car audio installers will agree with me on this.

 

[mike c]

question #2 (i should know the answer, but i'm really not sure)

i was repositioning the speaker wires for my LCR from running across the floor to running across the ceiling, suffice to say, they're too short. so i need new cables, i have both an opened roll of gauge 12/4 and unopened 12/2

i was thinking of using the 12/4 because:
1) it's already open
2) it looks sturdier, and would end up being a heavier gauge than 12/2

question is:
is it ok to use 4 wires on the same speaker ++ --?

BJC on their website says this about their 4 wire cable:
When conventionally wired, star quad speaker cable has the advantage of reducing the EM field around the cable, which will tend to diminish the effect of the signal in the speaker cable upon nearby interconnects--though this is not, in most applications, a significant concern.

 

[MDS]

question is:
is it ok to use 4 wires on the same speaker ++ --?

Yes, and doing so will lower the effective gauge slightly. It is not acceptable to wire two different speakers to the same binding post on the receiver or at least that is what every receiver manual I've ever read says.

I would twist the two positive wires together and likewise for the negatives but then use banana plugs or tips to keep them nicely together.

 

[mike c]

Yes, and doing so will lower the effective gauge slightly. It is not acceptable to wire two different speakers to the same binding post on the receiver or at least that is what every receiver manual I've ever read says.

I would twist the two positive wires together and likewise for the negatives but then use banana plugs or tips to keep them nicely together.

thanks. i'll be doing exactly that for the center channel which has a single binding post on the speaker.

but i was thinking of twisting the ++ and -- on the amp end together (like you said) with a banana plug BUT since the L and R speakers have dual binding posts, should be no problem to use each + and - on each pair of binding post right?

 

[Alex2507]

should be no problem to use each + and - on each pair of binding post right?

I would bet money that either way is fine. I like the BJC locking bananas so I would go with just one pair of bananas and use the speaker's jumpers. For wire I use 12/4 twisted because a buddy and I got a good deal on 500 feet of it. Combining two 12 gauge wires drops the gauge to 9. My most recent wire acquisition was 14/2 so you can probably guess that in your place I would go with the 12/2. It's just easier to work with.

 

[highfigh]

Yes, and doing so will lower the effective gauge slightly. It is not acceptable to wire two different speakers to the same binding post on the receiver or at least that is what every receiver manual I've ever read says.

I would twist the two positive wires together and likewise for the negatives but then use banana plugs or tips to keep them nicely together.

The cross sectional surface area would double, which means the effective wire gauge would be 10AWG if 12/4 was used this way.

 

[Alex2507]

The cross sectional surface area would double, which means the effective wire gauge would be 10AWG if 12/4 was used this way.

I read that the gauge dropped by 3 when you doubled up the wire.

 

[mike c]

I read that the gauge dropped by 3 when you doubled up the wire.

i thought it was 1 number down i.e.

12/4 = gauge 11/2
16/4 = gauge 15/2

 

[Alex2507]

i thought it was 1 number down i.e.

12/4 = gauge 11/2
16/4 = gauge 15/2

No. Lol

I don't get to do that often so I really enjoy it.

I'm pretty sure one of the places that I read that is in an article written by Gene himself, our fearless leader but it's not the only place. I can't remember exactly where all I read it though. I do remember the first time I verbalized the question at work. The electrician I asked instead of saying that he didn't know asked me in an irritated tone why I didn't just get the right gauge. Needless to say I didn't waste any more of my time goofing off with him. The answer to his question was and is that when you're faced with a wire budget potentially running into thousands, you need information not voodoo.

12/4=9/2
16/4=13/2

Correction: Not that it matters but I am using 14/4 wire, not 12/4. My effective gauge is 11. I got confused because I sent GG some ridiculous 12/4 wire that I couldn't wait to get rid of. He's a bit of a freak for that stuff.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I read that the gauge dropped by 3 when you doubled up the wire.

Yes, you read correctly

 

[mike c]

one thing to note though is that the monoprice "12 gauge" wire seems to be smaller than the "12 gauge" wire i'm used to.

could it be, that's how they keep the prices competetive?

if i was to use a micrometer on the wire, what diameter should a 12 gauge be?
internet tables seem to point to solid core and not stranded wires.

 

[Alex2507]

internet tables seem to point to solid core and not stranded wires.

It still boils down to the cross sectional area of all the strands combined. So the thickness and number of stands tells the tale. Monoprice may have thinner insulation. I think this is where you ought to pull rank and get the scoop straight from Gene.

I see you went and searched but here is the wiki thing on the matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

My fascination with wire died once I figured out it didn't matter so much.

 

[mike c]

yes, the insulation is super thin ... but i was really talking about the copper aggregate diameter.

yep, that's the wiki i alluded to talking about solid core diameter. i have no intentions of counting the number of strands in the wire

 

[Alex2507]

i have no intentions of counting the number of strands in the wire

You might be able to find the spec on it if you're right into it. I think that many fine strands would seem thinner than fewer thick strands. This has come up before and I remember my thought on it was that if monoprice was duping people, somebody would have caught on by now and it just wouldn't be worth it to them to ruin their name like that.

 

[mtrycrafts]

one thing to note though is that the monoprice "12 gauge" wire seems to be smaller than the "12 gauge" wire i'm used to.

could it be, that's how they keep the prices competetive?

if i was to use a micrometer on the wire, what diameter should a 12 gauge be?
internet tables seem to point to solid core and not stranded wires.

I doubt there is a table for stranded as it depends on the strands. Just measure it and see how close it is to solid. If the strand count is low, measure one and count the number of strands and see what the total area is

 

[mtrycrafts]

You might be able to find the spec on it if you're right into it. I think that many fine strands would seem thinner than fewer thick strands. This has come up before and I remember my thought on it was that if monoprice was duping people, somebody would have caught on by now and it just wouldn't be worth it to them to ruin their name like that.

With fine strands, the actual diameter should be very close to the solid wire diameter, less air space between strands.

 

[mike c]

well, altogether (estimating by eye) they seem to be bigger than the required 2.0+mm diameter. it's just that i have another gauge 12 that's a lot bigger.