The Obama Motors Corporation

Nemo128

Nemo128

Audioholic Field Marshall
I think the exchange of ideas can be healthy, as long as people don't get pissed off at each other for their differing views, as jamie said.
 
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craigsub

Audioholic Chief
You work with the dealers on the showroom floor this is where all the underwiting takes place, it is where they sell the extended warranties tell the truth!

I am not just a guy yapping on the internet, you seem to have forgotten that I work in the manufacturing plants for almost all major manufacturers as a vendor for "quality control equipment" in the US stated earlier in this post. So I see almost all of the problems that they are having first hand. Tell the truth!

Your partner runs the dealerships so all of what you hear is from a dealers prospective second hand.

The reason why I have only posted negative stuff about Ford is because you attacked me earlier in the post and started bragging about Ford.

Tell the truth I did not say that every post was absurd here!
By definition, underwriting does not take place on a showroom floor.

Underwriting is collecting the loss data on whatever product is being insured and then determining the premium required to cover those losses. You may rest assured that the underwriters don't call the local Chevrolet dealer and ask the sales staff what the premium requirements are for writing a 100,000 mile policy on a Tahoe.

One of the insurers with whom I work is Great American Insurance Group. Here is a link to their website: Link

You are correct about one issue. It was dronezero who said absurd. As you both have done nothing but ***** in this entire thread, I got you confused. Sorry about that. ;)

And here is a sampling of what it costs to underwrite a 4 year, 60,000 mile policy on a group of 2006 vehicles. As you previously stated you would like to see 5 and 7 year reliability numbers, the chance to see how much it averages in cost to keep a 3 year old vehicle on the road until it is 7 years old with 100,000 miles should answer that question of yours.

The sample group is from loss data of over 4 million vehicles.

Vehicle............... Cost
Honda Accord ..... $708
Ford 500 ............ $800
Toyota Camry ..... $773
Ford Fusion ......... $702
Chevy Malibu ........$832
Acura TL ..............$975
Jeep Gr Cherokee ..$1254
BMW 335i .............$1890
Ford Explorer .........$1050
Toyota Highlander ..$1066
Mercedes SL-550 ...$5233
Ferrari anything .... If you need to ask, don't buy a Ferrari


We can rate just about anything, so if anyone has a specfic question, please ask.
 
Nemo128

Nemo128

Audioholic Field Marshall
My friend bought a Acura TL for his wife, that thing is such a nice car. I'm jealous.
Sorry to disappoint Sensi, I drive an RSX-S, not a TL. :(

But if it makes ya feel any better, it's not riced out with vinyl and shopping cart spoiler. :)
 
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craigsub

Audioholic Chief
True, but more importantly, GM Corp NA employees 250k people at the corporate level alone. That's not counting franchised dealers, parts suppliers, temporary staff, contractor employees, and contracted support agencies. Do we really, as a society, want to see that many people systematically canned? Do we honestly believe there are enough jobs in the market for all those people to return to work immediately? I think people are much to shortsighted about this problem. Not you, jonny, but people who don't look at the VERY HUGE picture.



Sorry craig, I like ya, but I had to:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/mar/03/gm-requests-state-aid-to-survive

http://www.autonews.com/article/20090116/ANA02/901169978/1078

Granted, I believe that if we wanted to do this the right way, they'd hold a public election to decide the fate of GM's CEO, much like a board of the company would do. But again, look at the very huge picture. Bankruptcy would supposedly cost less in the end, but what will happen to parts suppliers when GM's debt to them is erased? Chain bankruptcy perhaps? I'm no expert, I just seriously doubt the general population can have much confidence in a company that is in the financial crapper, yet has no change in management.

Again, I'm no expert and I'm not trying to pretend I am, this is just my opinion and I honestly don't think it's worth much. I just really believe that the majority of people who look at this situation don't see just how unbelievably massive the problem is. It goes beyond our borders, it goes beyond our job and stock markets, and it goes far beyond all this capitalism/socialism/communism/democratic/republican/liberal/conservative/rich/poor propoganda every person on every side of every argument keeps screaming about and blaming others for.
Toyota has also asked the Japanese Government for cash.

So yes, this goes beyond our borders ... but much of this is a "we need to sell more stuff" issue, which was addressed several pages ago with the idea of tax credits for purchases.

And yes, this is also getting political, and the mods seem to be getting grumpy about it.

SO ... Everyone is welcome to visit our Tweak City Audio Avatar Hottie contest thread. Just be careful opening this link at work ... :D

What ever you do, don't click this link

AND ... buyacarbuyacarbuyacarbuyacar

Is subliminal post whoring allowed here ? :eek: :D
 
jcilforever

jcilforever

Audioholic
Defending my character1

Craigsub the following is in response to your last post.

http://www.carcomplaints.com/top_vehicles.shtml
Link one is from customers who have owned the cars how is this different from JD Power? They give a disclamer http://www.carcomplaints.com/disclaimer.shtml

6.5 million recalled due to Fords catching fire:http://www.fordproblems.com/investigations/F-150/1997/
This is from an NHTSA Investigation that caused Ford to recall them if they were being proactive then they would have done a Voluntary recall!

More engine fires http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...0&summary=true

Yet another recall for a possible ignition source in the engine compartment, yes it does say under extreme duty, but how many people that buy the vans used them for just driving. This is also an involantary recall.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...h&summary=true

This is a petition filed against Ford that enough people had been affected that the NHTSA had to make it public. Notice the NHTSA only spent a month or less investigating it.

http://www.fordproblems.com/spark-pl...m-engine.shtml
This is the spark plug ejection problem, no the NHTSA has not forced a recall as of yet but just having this issue is bad enough. Once again Craigsub is not telling the truth the mechanic that he is referring to is a concearned reader that sent an email.

http://www.autobuyguide.com/1991/12-...lls/index.html
This has information about the tire situation, yes this is only one year but follow the whole story and it spans 8 years! Yes that is 13 million vehicles affected just for the one year.
Estimated Vehicles Affected: 13000000
1991 FORD EXPLORER Defect Summary:
THIS IS NOT A SAFETY RECALL IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE SAFETY ACT. HOWEVER, IT IS DEEMED A SAFETY IMPROVEMENT CAMPAIGN BY THE AGENCY. EQUIPMENT DESCRIPTION: FORD IS REPLACING ALL FIRESTONE WILDERNESS AT 15, 16, AND 17 INCH TIRES MOUNTED ON FORD TRUCKS AND SUVS. FORD REPORTS TREAD SEPARATION CAN OCCUR DUE TO A COMBINATION OF THE SENSITIVITY OF THE TIRE DESIGN TO STRESS, AGING, AND MANUFACTURING DIFFERENCES BETWEEN PLANTS. FORD IS REPLACING THESE TIRES TO PREVENT POSSIBLE PREMATURE TIRE FAILURE. VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: THE VEHICLES LISTED BELOW MAY HAVE BEEN ORIGINALLY EQUIPPED WITH FIRESTONE WILDERNESS AT TIRES OR MAY HAVE HAD WILDERNESS AT TIRES INSTALLED DURING THE FIRESTONE RECALL LAUNCHED IN AUGUST 2000. CERTAIN 1991 THROUGHT 2002 FORD EXPLORER CERTAIN 2001 THROUGHT 2002 EXPLORER SPORT, AND SPORT TRAC CERTAIN 1997 THROUGH 2002 MERCURY MOUNTAINEER CERTAIN 1991 THROUGH 2001 RANGER CERTAIN 1999 THROUGH 2001 EXPEDITION CERTAIN 1991 THROUGH 1994, AND 1997 MODEL YEAR F-SERIES CERTAIN 1991 THROUGH 1994 BRONCO NOTE: BOTH ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT AND REPLACEMENT TIRES ARE AFFECTED.
Defect Consequence:
SHOULD THE TREAD SEPARATE AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS, A VEHICLE CRASH COULD OCCUR, POSSIBLY RESULTING IN PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH.
Remedy:
THE REPLACEMENT/REIMBURSEMENT PROGRAM FOR THIS CAMPAIGN EXPIRED ON MARCH 31, 2002. HOWEVER, CUSTOMERS CAN CONTACT FORD AT 1-877-917-3673 OR GO ON-LINE TO WWW.FORD.COM FOR POSSIBLE ASSISTANCE.
Notes: FORD MOTOR COMPANY, 01B77

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_spark.html
Alot of unhappy people that Ford will not help who had theirs sparkplugs BLOW OUT OF THE ENGINES!

HMM why would most of the recalled tires be on Ford explorers MAYBE BECAUSE THEY DEFLATE THEM BY 5 PSI! http://www.tiredefects.com/tire-trea...ufacturing.cfmPotential Liability of Ford for its Knowledge of the Rollover Problem and the Underinflation of Tires on the Ford Explorer
As the seller of a product with defective component parts, Ford is subject to strict liability for harm caused in tread separation accidents under the same theories as Firestone. However, Ford may face additional liability based on the stability of the vehicles into which the defective tires are integrated and on its recommendation of excessively low tire pressure.

Unfortunately, tread separation often causes a sport utility vehicle such as the Ford Explorer to roll over, a type of accident that frequently results in death or catastrophic injury to the vehicle's occupants. If tread separation occurs on a vehicle traveling 65 miles per hour, it becomes extremely difficult for the average driver to safely steer the vehicle to the road's shoulder.

The driver generally loses control as a result of a combination of factors. The loss of control starts with the tread separating from one of the rear tires. For example, if the right rear tread separates, the vehicle will pull slightly to the right, causing the driver to steer to the left to compensate. However, once the tread has separated, the vehicle will oversteer because the side force capability of that tire is drastically reduced (usually to 25 percent or less of its normal value). This means that the vehicle has two tires on the front generating side force, but only one good tire on the rear to balance the turning moment.
(cut paragragh due to space)
As a consequence, any steer input will be amplified by the oversteer nature of the vehicle and lead to high lateral accelerations. Once the lateral acceleration exceeds the vehicle's stability threshold (which is approximately 70 percent of its static stability factor), the vehicle will roll over. As a result, the combination of Firestone tires and Ford Explorers can be a deadly mix.

As previously noted, many of the recalled tires were sold as original equipment on Explorers. This vehicle was introduced by Ford as a replacement of the Bronco II, which had a horrible fatal rollover record and a poor stability index. The Explorer is a bigger vehicle than the Bronco II, with a longer wheelbase and a slightly higher stability index, but it still has stability problems.

To improve the reported stability of the vehicle through rollover resistance testing, Ford manipulated the recommended air pressure in the tires to a low of 26 pounds per square inch. This is extremely low in comparison with the recommendations of other auto manufacturers, and may be one reason for the high incidence of tread separation on Explorers.

As set forth below, tire manufacturers often argue that consumers are to blame for tread separation because they drove on underinflated tires. According to the manufacturers, driving on underinflated tires generates excessive heat and results in tread separation.

If Ford recommended an excessively low tire pressure, it may share liability with Firestone for tread separation failures. Indeed, it would be disingenuous for Firestone or Ford to blame consumers for driving on underinflated tires when Ford effectively recommended that they do just that.
 
jcilforever

jcilforever

Audioholic
Defending character 2

http://www.rolloverlawyer.com/ford_defects/F150.htm
This gives very detailed information about F150s that are prone to rollover, it is relivent and has pictures of actual cars

Repair kit made for Ford spark plug blow out http://www.timesert.com/html/triton_repair.html

Why would a company make such a kit if it were not a major problem this has been cited multiple times in this post

Paint problems http://www.lemonlaw.com/wordpress/mo...0-2005-models/

Ford has issued a Technical Service Bulletin that shows a major paint defect in many large 2000-05 Ford, Lincoln and Mercury cars, trucks and SUVs that used aluminum body parts (hoods and fenders) to reduce vehicle weight. Affected models are the 2000-04 Crown Victoria, Taurus, Expedition, F-150, Ranger; Mercury Grand Marquis, Sable; Lincoln LS, Town Car Navigator and the 2000-05 Explorer, Mercury Mountaineer.


So do Michelin's cause explorers to rollover too? http://www.tiredefects.com/michelin/...er-lawsuit.cfm
It's the fourth time Ford will go to trial to defend the sport-utility vehicle's stability, which came under scrutiny after federal safety officials linked Firestone tires made for Explorers to 271 deaths. No jury has found Ford liable for alleged Explorer defects, and the automaker has blamed the wrecks on Bridgestone Corp.'s Firestone unit.

"For the past 18 months and beyond, Ford has been blaming Firestone for tread separation-related rollovers," said Tab Turner, the Aguirre family's attorney. "In this particular case, Ford will have to defend its product without having the benefit of Firestone to blame."



Government coverup for Ford http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=94233Headline: Ford / Transmission Defects
Abstract: (Studio) National Highway Traffic Safety Admin. remembered considering ordering Ford to recall 1970-79 trucks, cars and vans with automatic transmission due to defect; Representative Tim Wirth reported calling for Congress investigation of government's failure to carry out recall, manipulating statistics to defense decision in process.
REPORTER: Peter Jennings

(Saint Joseph, Missouri) Transmission defect of 1970-79 Fords explained, demonstrated; government consideration of situation reviewed. Problem reported continuing; death of Michael Kretzer due to transmission failure cited as example [Donna KRETZER - describes son's death.] [John KRETZER - criticizes Ford's reaction to lawsuit.] [Center for Auto Safety spokesperson Clarence DITLOW - notes number deaths, injuries and accidents since warnings were mailed to Ford owners.] Govt. mentioned refusing to reopen investigation despite acknowledging deaths. [WIRTH - accuses NHTSA of refusing to recognize problem.] [Ford vice president Helen PETRUASKAS - blames drivers for mishaps.] [WIRTH - claims Ford acknowledged transmission problem by its warning labels sent owners.] Ford noted changing transmission design in 1980 to prevent such incidents; Trans. Department' defense of its position outlined. 1982 court of appeals ruling recalled. [John KRETZER - accuses government of not wanting to admit fault; notes his permanent loss.]
REPORTER: Bettina Gregory



Fords on fire http://www.flamingfords.info/index.htm
Loss of house first time I have heard of a car causing someone to loose their house but then again it was a FORD

What about this website craigsub it gives lawsuit cases, recall information and pictures!

http://www.vehicle-injuries.com/ford-fire-defect.htmYes this is a lawyers page but it backs up the claims of the previous website and gives a good descrition of how your Ford can catch on fire even when it ihas not been driven for a while:eek:

Paint flaking http://www.autosafety.org/ford

MSNBC report on fords recall of trucks that catch fire http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/14167908#14167908http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14166291/

craigsub I believe that I have showed that Ford has major issues even though this was not my original intention. Since you challanged me I just gave information that is truthful of which you discounted most of it as being untrue. I do agree with you that this is enough, I just could not let you get away with misleading people.

Yes all car manufacturers do have recalls and Ford is not the only manufacturer that has them, but it is definatly one of the more continual offenders.

I have one final request from you to post the information that shows the manufactures from which ones are the least to greatest to insure from 1-10 so that you will give the people a true representation.

Thank you, my intention was not to offend or hurt you it was to show what was really happening, also you would be surprised if you would just listen to someone who works behind the scenes in the manufacturers plants and could give you first hand knowlege of problems.:)
 
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billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
UMMMMMM its a political thread buy the one and only Buckeye. That should say enough about this thread Matt..CLOSE IT and we should start banning political threads as they just seem to pisss everyone off........:rolleyes:
Why Buckeye_Nut gets a free pass I'll never know! My guess is he has pictures of the mods or its because they share the same party lines.;)
 
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craigsub

Audioholic Chief
Average cost by manufacturer for a 4 year, 60,000 mile warranty on a 2006 vehicle with 40,000 miles at time of sale. The top ten ...

1. Honda - $902
2. Mercury - $934
3. Toyota - $957
4. Nissan - $996
5. Ford - $1021
6. Lincoln - $1035
7. Subaru - $1046
8. Chevrolet - $1134
9. Buick - $1157
10. Mazda - $1211

Other notables, just the average underwriting costs ...

Porsche - $5344
BMW - $2122
Audi - $1956
Lexus - 1788
Cadillac - $1729

Sorry guys, I gotta run, there is a guy in the showroom asking about the new Fusion Hybrid. :D

Sorry, I could not resist !
 
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craigsub

Audioholic Chief
To the vast majority of forum members who are fun, I have added a certain member to my ignore list, as it has occured to me that each response from this individual has grown exponentially. Two more posts in response to him, and he may actually break the internet. In half.

The ramifications are too scary to even contemplate.

To keep things fun, several of my fellow showroom underwriters and I are going to do tequila hits and then go out Explorer tipping ... you know, like cow tipping, but with Ford Explorers.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
Defending my character1
Now do the same type of hostile write-up for Honda and Toyota. I already gave you a head start by posting a link to Toyotas catching fire and hiding recalls, but there are plenty of others out there for you to find. You do seem to have gone to a lot of trouble dig up every recall Ford ever had. Perhaps you could do an equally scathing review of Mitsubishi covering up safety defects in their vehicles, to the point that their executives received criminal convictions and led to at least one executive suicide.

For the record, my current Town Car was listed under a recall but it did not catch fire. My previous Explorer did not roll over. Nor did my F-150 catch fire, roll over or eject spark plugs. In fact, my Crown Vic did not have any peeling paint. In fact, none of my Fords have ever had any paint peel.

To be fair, and this applies to the many, many recalls of offshore brands as well, recalls can be initiated by a single incident and the recall initiated due to the "potential" for similar incidents occurring. I hope you would be willing to admit that ALL manufacturers have had multiple recalls issued and that this is not a situation that is unique to Ford or North American manufacturers in general.
 
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jcilforever

jcilforever

Audioholic
Now do the same type of hostile write-up for Honda and Toyota. I already gave you a head start by posting a link to Toyotas catching fire and hiding recalls, but there are plenty of others out there for you to find. You do seem to have gone to a lot of trouble dig up every recall Ford ever had. Perhaps you could do an equally scathing review of Mitsubishi covering up safety defects in their vehicles, to the point that their executives received criminal convictions and led to at least one executive suicide.

For the record, my current Town Car was listed under a recall but it did not catch fire. My previous Explorer did not roll over. Nor did my F-150 catch fire, roll over or eject spark plugs. In fact, my Crown Vic did not have any peeling paint. In fact, none of my Fords have ever had any paint peel.

To be fair, and this applies to the many, many recalls of offshore brands as well, recalls can be initiated by a single incident and the recall initiated due to the "potential" for similar incidents occurring. I hope you would be willing to admit that ALL manufacturers have had multiple recalls issued and that this is not a situation that is unique to Ford or North American manufacturers in general.
Please see prior post, lets get back to the subject of Why Obama had the head of GM fired and is attempting to nationalize the automotive industry, and automotive company bankruptcy please.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
Please see prior post, lets get back to the subject of Why Obama had the head of GM fired and is attempting to nationalize the automotive industry, and automotive company bankruptcy please.
It's all in the questions you ask. For instance:

Q. Why would Obama spend a trillion dollars bailing out banks and another trillion dollars bailing out irresponsible home buyers, yet makes automakers prostrate themselves, jump through hoops like circus ponies, fire the CEO and demand a merger with a foreign competitor for a few billion dollars IN LOANS?

A. No other recipient of federal bailout money in the US, Europe, Japan or Canada has been required to submit plans or make structural changes in order to receive the money. It is only GM and Chrysler that have been taken to task despite the fact that the laws and regulations of that very same government are responsible for their current position and despite the fact that all the world's automakers are struggling from the same weakness in automotive demand. Even venerable Honda has revised it's forecasts downward three times in the last few months and wiped out the rest of the year's profit in the fourth quarter of last year alone. With all the free-flowing capital to all the various corporations and individuals from all the various nations, why does Obama treat GM and Chrysler this way? BECAUSE HE CAN and it FEELS REALLY GOOD to exercise such enormous power. BTW, this simple explanation also applies to Obama's most recent and most enormous power grab in the financial sector.
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
Please see prior post, lets get back to the subject of Why Obama had the head of GM fired and is attempting to nationalize the automotive industry, and automotive company bankruptcy please.
Trying to nationalize the auto industry?

What was the alternative? Let GM and Chrysler close up shop? You'll notice he's leaving Ford alone. Ford didn't go completely bankrupt and beg for billions of government dollars.
 
DTS-HD MA

DTS-HD MA

Junior Audioholic
Trying to nationalize the auto industry?

What was the alternative? Let GM and Chrysler close up shop? You'll notice he's leaving Ford alone. Ford didn't go completely bankrupt and beg for billions of government dollars.
Don't worry, they're not too far away from it.
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
Don't worry, they're not too far away from it.
You're essentially claiming that Obama is planning to take over Ford as well.

That's a big, big statement. Where is the indication that Obama is trying to take over any solvent companies?

The only thing I've seen his administration do is try to lay down some rules on companies that went totally broke-*** bankrupt and begged for government money not to shut down completely.
 
darien87

darien87

Audioholic Spartan
I bought another Ford this year.

I love my 07 Mustang.





I did pay about $1,500 to get the extended 3-year warranty. I talked the dealer WAY down though. I just hope she doesn't catch on fire. :eek:
 
Nemo128

Nemo128

Audioholic Field Marshall
Whole lot of feelings and assumptions going on now. From how Obama "feels" about "having power" to how close Ford is to the same situation as GM and Chrysler, we're totally diverging from referenced facts and published information to everyone's personal assumptions and beliefs.

/thread
 
itschris

itschris

Moderator
I think the truth of the matter is, in modern history, we have never had an administration use the power of the office to run, let alone, determine compensation and Sr. Management tenure of private companies.

You can argue all day long about the wisdom of how a GM, Ford, or banks for the matter are run, but you we're going down a road here that should cause at least some pause for most people. I'm not saying you should run in the streets chanting "communist" but you should at least have some concern in the back of your mind about the Federal Gov't taking over corporations and having the mindset to replace the people they want and pay others what they feel they deserve. Even today, Tim Geitner said it's not at all improbable that they would replace more members of other corporations.

You're starting to see at least some concern, even amongst liberals. What they are doing is fairly well unprecedented in it's specific context and combine that with an administration that doesn't really appear to have a good grasp yet on what it is they're doing or plan to do, it should at least cause you to maybe not scratch your head, but perhaps at least rub your chin a bit.
 
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