The Obama Motors Corporation

[craigsub]

I own a Lincoln and it has given me zero problems so far. It's my first American car. At the same point, the Nissan, Honda, Saab, Mercedes I've owned (all new), had some issues come up. I believe Ford has made some real effort to make better cars as the new Lincolns, Fusions do well in reliability ratings. I wouldn't count Ford out.

I am going to post some interesting data on 3 year old vehicles after I get the latest info back from the insurance company.

Our industry is highly regulated, and we have to post the exact losses per vehicle for the term (months and mileage) and coverage (IE - is it powertrain only or a comprehensive coverage) to the department of insurance in each state.

The info I am getting today is the underwriting cost for putting a 4 year, 60,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty on a 2006 model vehicle with 40,000 miles on it today.

Basically, these cars are typically out of factory warranty, with the exception of some possible powetrain warranty remaining.

Each vehicle would be covered from April 1, 2009 until April 1, 2013, and until it hits 100,000 miles.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Paint issues where color does not adhere to primer and peels off within 5 years.

What year was that from? In 2000 we bought two F350s at work, and both have paint problems. Our 1999 Dodge 3500s have no paint problems, the paint looks brand new... they are taken care of the same. Was there ever a recall or something for the Ford paint? It's coming off on the rear wheel wells the worse.

 

[Matt34]

What year was that from? In 2000 we bought two F350s at work, and both have paint problems. Our 1999 Dodge 3500s have no paint problems, the paint looks brand new... they are taken care of the same. Was there ever a recall or something for the Ford paint? It's coming off on the rear wheel wells the worse.

I think all the domestic manufactures have had paint issues at one time or another. Every dodge interpid or or the older model sebrings, avengers I've seen has either horrible faded or peeling paint.
My last two Nissans have had very thin paint which cause the front bumpers and hoods to develop pits. My old 94 nissan truck never had this issue however.

 

[markw]

I had a green '97 Grand Marquis I bought used in '02 with 43,000 miles. I had it for two years, or until it hit 70,000 miles.

In that time, The paint flaked off the hood, roof and trunk. In that 27k, it needed three window motors ($350/each) and a $700 AC/heater motor replaced or else it would only blow hot air full blast.

At 70,000 the check engine light came on and they said it would take $600 to fix it and even then they wouldn't guarantee it would pass NJ state inspection. That was the fina straw.

All work was done by the dealer and they always found some reason that it wasn't covered by any guarantee.

In 2004 bought a new Hyundai for what I paid for the used Merc in '02. I've had it going on five years and 53,000 miles and have had no problems, so far.

 

[Nemo128]

Scion - Toyota - Lexus works.

Honda - Acura works.

Nissan - Infiniti works.

Ford - Lincoln works (why do they need Mercury anyway?)

Saturn - Pontiac - Chevy - GMC - Cadillac - Saab - ETC? WHY??!!

Chrysler - Pfft. The ME412 was 20th century, go away already.

GM should have went with a Good/Better/Best model. Saturn - Chevy - Cadillac. The other brands are freagin useless, and I didn't even name all of them.

Hyundai has gotten significantly better. Mitsubishi, bleh. Who cares about anything but the Lancer Evos. Subaru has improved its cars as well. BMWs really are great cars.

But, I love my current 06 Acura. Won't trade it for anything.

 

[craigsub]

What year was that from? In 2000 we bought two F350s at work, and both have paint problems. Our 1999 Dodge 3500s have no paint problems, the paint looks brand new... they are taken care of the same. Was there ever a recall or something for the Ford paint? It's coming off on the rear wheel wells the worse.

This is a case where a good dealer makes a lot of difference. Check with your Ford dealer service manager, and ask him what he can do to help. His factory rep can make allowances for these occurances.

 

[craigsub]

Scion - Toyota - Lexus works.

Honda - Acura works.

Nissan - Infiniti works.

Ford - Lincoln works (why do they need Mercury anyway?)

Saturn - Pontiac - Chevy - GMC - Cadillac - Saab - ETC? WHY??!!

Chrysler - Pfft. The ME412 was 20th century, go away already.

GM should have went with a Good/Better/Best model. Saturn - Chevy - Cadillac. The other brands are freagin useless, and I didn't even name all of them.

Hyundai has gotten significantly better. Mitsubishi, bleh. Who cares about anything but the Lancer Evos. Subaru has improved its cars as well. BMWs really are great cars.

But, I love my current 06 Acura. Won't trade it for anything.

I had a 2008 MDX that was a total Lemon. Being in the business, it did not anger me, and we finally "unwound" the deal after 4 months. The vehicle had a new transmission put in it, and was sold at auction for $28K.

Considering it was $48K new, that was a great deal for someone.

MY "work" car is now a Ford Flex, but I love the new TL. I know a lot of people think it's ugly, but I think it's great looking.

Looking at your ideas above, let's look at just the GM line up.

I don't even think Saturn needs to be around for anything. Make it Chevrolet-Cadillac. This idea makes a lot of sense.

In our area, we have a population of appx. 300,000 people. We have one Scion-Toyota, One Honda, and One Nissan dealership. We have Three Ford, Three Chevrolet, Two Buick-Pontiac-GMC and 6 Chrysler/Dodge dealerships.

One Chevy Store, One Caddy Store, One Ford-Lincoln combo, and once Chrysler "4-Pack" (Chrysler-Jeep-Dodge-Dodge Truck) makes sense to match the single Toyota and Honda outlets.

Here is the problem ... how do you compensate the 6000 Buick-Pontiac-GMC-Saturn-Hummer dealers across the country ?

Franchise law makes this very difficult ... in fact, franchise law requires the manufacturer to compensate the dealer based on the highest possible evaluation.

Fortunately, this problem is centered in the north-east and some in Ohio-Michigan, with a less concentrated dealer body in the south and west.

 

[MidnightSensi]

But, I love my current 06 Acura. Won't trade it for anything.

My friend bought a Acura TL for his wife, that thing is such a nice car. I'm jealous.

I drive a Porsche Cayenne GTS as my daily driver, it's a great SUV and has a nice balance of sporty to utility (fits four comfortibly, room for subs in the back, etc. ) .. but, I have no idea what I will get next as a daily driver. Lots of cool sports cars, not a lot of stuff I want to drive as a daily driver out there.

This is a case where a good dealer makes a lot of difference. Check with your Ford dealer service manager, and ask him what he can do to help. His factory rep can make allowances for these occurances.

Our 650s we bought from a good dealer because he is a truck guy (does the 550s, 650s, etc.), but the 350s we got from a regular dealer....which in South Florida means the people are completely useless... and probably don't speak english.

 

[jonnythan]

That is exactly what I was referring to when I referenced in another thread Obama's latest step in advancing America's fascist leanings. It is a hallmark of fascist states that the government dictates how private enterprises are run. In this case, GM's shareholders have been usurped by the government with the forced removal of their CEO. Apparently, Obama believes that because in his judgement, Wagoner was not a good CEO, the POTUS must use his power in office to remove him. This is the way a fascist state operates, not the way a free market, constitutionally limited republic operates.

GM failed. That's what happened. GM ran flat straight into a brick wall. They completely ran out of money and failed. Out of business.

The federal government comes along and says "we don't want your company to close its doors, so we're giving you a truly massive, almost unprecedented emergency bailout fund. Your company will continue to exist, thanks to our action and taxpayer dollars."

Now, in that scenario, you think it's fascist to order a change in management? Obama didn't swing his weight around to depose the CEO of a functioning company. He ordered the ejection of a CEO of a failed, bankrupt company that was saved from disaster by a massive influx of taxpayer dollars.

 

[craigsub]

GM failed. That's what happened. GM ran flat straight into a brick wall. They completely ran out of money and failed. Out of business.

The federal government comes along and says "we don't want your company to close its doors, so we're giving you a truly massive, almost unprecedented emergency bailout fund. Your company will continue to exist, thanks to our action and taxpayer dollars."

Now, in that scenario, you think it's fascist to order a change in management? Obama didn't swing his weight around to depose the CEO of a functioning company. He ordered the ejection of a CEO of a failed, bankrupt company that was saved from disaster by a massive influx of taxpayer dollars.

Nice post. Now, can you answer this question ...

Can you name another company that was forced by federal law to pay for the retirement accounts of 420,000 retirees and an additional 120,000 survivors ? Without the rules place on GM by the federal government, GM would not have such an impossible debt load.

General Motors is a functioning, profitable company internationally. They are not a functioning, profitable company in the USA.

We have the same "incompetent" management that can make money in Europe and Asia losing money here. Look no further than Washington DC and its law requiring domestic car companies to have to live with every UAW demand or face being shut down to find out why.

And yes, I think it is fascist for head of the excutive branch of the government to force the CEO of a private corporation to resign.

 

[jonnythan]

Nice post. Now, can you answer this question ...

Can you name another company that was forced by federal law to pay for the retirement accounts of 420,000 retirees and an additional 120,000 survivors ? Without the rules place on GM by the federal government, GM would not have such an impossible debt load.

General Motors is a functioning, profitable company internationally. They are not a functioning, profitable company in the USA.

We have the same "incompetent" management that can make money in Europe and Asia losing money here. Look no further than Washington DC and its law requiring domestic car companies to have to live with every UAW demand or face being shut down to find out why.

And yes, I think it is fascist for head of the excutive branch of the government to force the CEO of a private corporation to resign.

Honestly, I don't know the situation well enough to answer your questions. I'm not saying that it was a good idea. I didn't say that I backed the bailout, I didn't say that I support the decision to oust Wagoner.

I am saying that it's not fascist to force management changes when the government gives a corporation an enormous sum of money so it can avoid immediate bankruptcy. Is firing Wagoner the best idea? Maybe, maybe not.

I think your corporation stops being so private when it begs the federal government to come in with billions and billions of taxpayer dollars so that it can simply continue to exist.

 

[billy p]

I had a green '97 Grand Marquis I bought used in '02 with 43,000 miles. I had it for two years, or until it hit 70,000 miles.

In that time, The paint flaked off the hood, roof and trunk. In that 27k, it needed three window motors ($350/each) and a $700 AC/heater motor replaced or else it would only blow hot air full blast.

At 70,000 the check engine light came on and they said it would take $600 to fix it and even then they wouldn't guarantee it would pass NJ state inspection. That was the fina straw.

All work was done by the dealer and they always found some reason that it wasn't covered by any guarantee.

In 2004 bought a new Hyundai for what I paid for the used Merc in '02. I've had it going on five years and 53,000 miles and have had no problems, so far.

I had a 2000 Ford Focus ZTS and went through 2 fuel pumps and 1 water pump before it reached 100 km. Now granted the first fuel pump was replaced due to warranty, but not he second one. However the final straw for me occured when I took my car to be fixed by my mechanic and after 3 attemps to replace my ICS(idle control valve) the problem still persisted. So I paid him for his work and returned home very PO.
Needless to say I called Ford and booked an appointment, figuring they'll be able to handle the problem..... The next day I go to my dealer and shortly after they run a full diagnostic test, the results show I needed to replace my ICS... I freak out and tell them it was replaced 3 times... I call up my mechanic and he tell the dealer the replacement parts where ordered from them and he has the receipts and defecteive sensors to prove it. Anyways my mechanic came over to the dealer, paid for my diagnostic and I drove my car back to his shop. After he did some research he decided to order a sensor from a later model Focus and the pinging and engine run ....on was never an issue again.

PS:I consider Ford like a close friend, but after you've been stiffed(over and over), don't come knocking on my door.

 

[craigsub]

Honestly, I don't know the situation well enough to answer your questions. I'm not saying that it was a good idea. I didn't say that I backed the bailout, I didn't say that I support the decision to oust Wagoner.

I am saying that it's not fascist to force management changes when the government gives a corporation an enormous sum of money so it can avoid immediate bankruptcy. Is firing Wagoner the best idea? Maybe, maybe not.

I think your corporation stops being so private when it begs the federal government to come in with billions and billions of taxpayer dollars so that it can simply continue to exist.

Let's put it this way ... The same government that forced these rules on GM then fired the CEO because he could not make a profit under these rules.

Now the government is going to force a bankruptcy to get rid of the rules it placed on GM in the first place.

 

[jonnythan]

Let's put it this way ... The same government that forced these rules on GM then fired the CEO because he could not make a profit under these rules.

Now the government is going to force a bankruptcy to get rid of the rules it placed on GM in the first place.

Obama's administration placed the rules on GM that led to its insolvency?

And "force" a bankruptcy? What would have happened if the Obama administration did nothing at all for GM?

 

[craigsub]

Obama's administration placed the rules on GM that led to its insolvency?

And "force" a bankruptcy? What would have happened if the Obama administration did nothing at all for GM?

The federal government has forced these rules on General Motors for decades. When one is running a company, Federal Government rules continue from one administration to the next. My issue with how Wagner was dismissed is the Federal government acted as if they had no fault in the issues that are causing GM so much pain today.

General Motors has to enter into a contract with the UAW. They have no choice. For decades, if General Motors does not pay to the UAW what the UAW wants, the UAW goes on strike, and GM is out of business.

Accoding to estimates from the US Dept. of Transportation, this has led General Motors to pay $1500 more PER VEHICLE just in health care costs.

Let's forget the rest of the Legacy costs and higher labor costs as demanded by the UAW (appx. $4 per hour), and just look at what the health care costs mean on a product.

Let's also put this into scale. According to the latest stats, the average vehicle price in the first quarter of 2009 was $24,627.

A $1500 per vehicle cost difference on a $24,627 retail price is more than any company can handle.

Getting to your last question ... I am not saying it is a bad thing to force the bankruptcy. In fact, I have been a proponent of this bankruptcy.

Here is a link to post #4, which is an outline I penned last September, and sent to Ford, a couple of political sites, and to a senator.

You will find a reference to the idea of bankruptcy near the bottom of the post.

 

[jcilforever]

Here is an easy example of your bias. I don't "work on a showroom floor". I work in the underwriting industry for long term warranties for every manufacturer that sells vehicles in North America. Underwriting data is better source of objective data than is one guy on the internet yapping about "I saw them in a parking lot".

I own the dealerships, with partner, who runs them on a daily basis.

Another example of your bias, the only company against whom you have posted negative links is Ford.

That is anything but unbiased, nor is it reasonable.

But that's ok, you started in this thread by calling every post absurd.

Being reasonable is not something which is possible for you.

I will, however, look at your "evidence", and post an appropriate response later. This should be fun.

You work with the dealers on the showroom floor this is where all the underwiting takes place, it is where they sell the extended warranties tell the truth!

I am not just a guy yapping on the internet, you seem to have forgotten that I work in the manufacturing plants for almost all major manufacturers as a vendor for "quality control equipment" in the US stated earlier in this post. So I see almost all of the problems that they are having first hand. Tell the truth!

Your partner runs the dealerships so all of what you hear is from a dealers prospective second hand.

The reason why I have only posted negative stuff about Ford is because you attacked me earlier in the post and started bragging about Ford.

Tell the truth I did not say that every post was absurd here!

 

[Matt34]

I'll tell you the truth, this thread is off-topic and rather annoying, kinda like the chaffing I have in a certain part of my anatomy.

 

[Nemo128]

The federal government comes along and says "we don't want your company to close its doors, so we're giving you a truly massive, almost unprecedented emergency bailout fund. Your company will continue to exist, thanks to our action and taxpayer dollars."

True, but more importantly, GM Corp NA employees 250k people at the corporate level alone. That's not counting franchised dealers, parts suppliers, temporary staff, contractor employees, and contracted support agencies. Do we really, as a society, want to see that many people systematically canned? Do we honestly believe there are enough jobs in the market for all those people to return to work immediately? I think people are much to shortsighted about this problem. Not you, jonny, but people who don't look at the VERY HUGE picture.

We have the same "incompetent" management that can make money in Europe and Asia losing money here. Look no further than Washington DC and its law requiring domestic car companies to have to live with every UAW demand or face being shut down to find out why.

And yes, I think it is fascist for head of the excutive branch of the government to force the CEO of a private corporation to resign.

Sorry craig, I like ya, but I had to:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/mar/03/gm-requests-state-aid-to-survive

http://www.autonews.com/article/20090116/ANA02/901169978/1078

Granted, I believe that if we wanted to do this the right way, they'd hold a public election to decide the fate of GM's CEO, much like a board of the company would do. But again, look at the very huge picture. Bankruptcy would supposedly cost less in the end, but what will happen to parts suppliers when GM's debt to them is erased? Chain bankruptcy perhaps? I'm no expert, I just seriously doubt the general population can have much confidence in a company that is in the financial crapper, yet has no change in management.

Again, I'm no expert and I'm not trying to pretend I am, this is just my opinion and I honestly don't think it's worth much. I just really believe that the majority of people who look at this situation don't see just how unbelievably massive the problem is. It goes beyond our borders, it goes beyond our job and stock markets, and it goes far beyond all this capitalism/socialism/communism/democratic/republican/liberal/conservative/rich/poor propoganda every person on every side of every argument keeps screaming about and blaming others for.

 

[jonnythan]

I'll tell you the truth, this thread is off-topic and rather annoying, kinda like the chaffing I have in a certain part of my anatomy.

What topic is it "off" of? This is The Steam Vent.

 

[jamie2112]

I'll tell you the truth, this thread is off-topic and rather annoying, kinda like the chaffing I have in a certain part of my anatomy.

UMMMMMM its a political thread buy the one and only Buckeye. That should say enough about this thread Matt..CLOSE IT and we should start banning political threads as they just seem to pisss everyone off........