Monster Cable quality Cable without the "monster price tage" ???

F

fractile

Junior Audioholic
I'm afraid most of this is placebo or perception not fact. Heck we've all fallen for that effect before. Nothing wrong with it, but monoprice cables tend to be just as good. Though their toslink connectors can have trouble locking. They still are the place i go for almost all my cable needs except speaker wire. (they are always out of what I want.)
I mixed apples and oranges here; I don't know much about monster interconnect cables; I'm referring to up-close listening tests to speaker wire.
I can definitly hear better hi-end detail mid-range coherence and basic output level in the monster z1 cable.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I mixed apples and oranges here; I don't know much about monster interconnect cables; I'm referring to up-close listening tests to speaker wire.
I can definitly hear better hi-end detail mid-range coherence and basic output level in the monster z1 cable.
Sometimes putting in new wire means replacing other wire ends that were corroded, making for high impedance. That in of itself could have been an issue.
 
F

fractile

Junior Audioholic
Huh?! Please, explain further this "time-alignment" technology and "smear" in the sound.

Their "facilities" stand a good chance to be the same place that makes monoprice.com cables.

-pat
The monster z1 (sorry, I confused the convo with speaker wire in an interconnect thread) Has multiple gauges of wire concentrically woven together. I haven't reviewed the exact engineering details, but I know it works to help prevent image smear in the signal; call it distortion and reduced clarity.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
If anything, there is a bigger difference in interconnects than there is in speaker wire. Sorry, but that is the truth man. I have tested cable that is far more expensive than Monster and there was no difference between it and Monster XP.

"Engineering Details" = "Fresh Bull"

Try some reading here if you want REAL facts:

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
 
F

fractile

Junior Audioholic
Sometimes putting in new wire means replacing other wire ends that were corroded, making for high impedance. That in of itself could have been an issue.
The monster z1 has been in use for about 6 months with banana plugs. This is a 10 foot cable on the right main, connecting the marantz sr8002 to an ascend sierra1. In the same set-up, on the left, I connected the bare ends of 10 feet of brand new Ultralink 14/4.
 
tomd51

tomd51

Audioholic General
The monster z1 (sorry, I confused the convo with speaker wire in an interconnect thread) Has multiple gauges of wire concentrically woven together. I haven't reviewed the exact engineering details, but I know it works to help prevent image smear in the signal; call it distortion and reduced clarity.
Not to be a d*ck, but that's just a load o' crap. Not saying it's you, but wherever that information came from, it's mythical at best. :rolleyes:

You could take standard electrical romex wiring of the same gauge and you'd hear absolutely no difference in a DBT. That's because there's nothing magical about conducting electricity. Some things can conduct it better, but it doesn't alter the sonic signature in any way.

Like Dre says, don't believe the hype... -TD
 
F

fractile

Junior Audioholic
Not to be a d*ck, but that's just a load o' crap. Not saying it's you, but wherever that information came from, it's mythical at best. :rolleyes:

You could take standard electrical romex wiring of the same gauge and you'd hear absolutely no difference in a DBT. That's because there's nothing magical about conducting electricity. Some things can conduct it better, but it doesn't alter the sonic signature in any way.

Like Dre says, don't believe the hype... -TD
I stuck my head right in front of the speakers and compared the sound from each repeatedly, to make sure I was not imagining a difference. I tested 12 gauge zipcord and 10 gauge solid wire also. This was at very modest sound level, so maybe it all changes at high volume levels?
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Have someone else switch the wires so you don't know which is which and see if you can tell the difference.

Since you don't seem to have read the linked info, I will quote a point of interest here:

A 6-page article by Laurence Greenhill titled "Speaker Cables: Can You Hear the Difference?" was published in Stereo Review magazine on August 1983. It compared Monster cable, 16-gauge wire and 24-gauge wire. The price at that time for a pair of 30-foot lengths of monster cables was $55.00. The cost for 16 gauge heavy lamp cord was $.30/foot or $18.00 and the 24 gauge "speaker wire" was $.03/foot or $1.80

"...So what do our fifty hours of testing, scoring and listening to speaker cables amount to? Only that 16-gauge lamp cord and Monster cable are indistinguishable from each other with music and seem to be superior to the 24 gauge wire commonly sold or given away as 'speaker cable.' Remember, however, that it was a measurable characteristic--higher resistance per foot--that made 24 gauge sound different from the other cables. If the cable runs were only 6 instead of 30 feet, the overall cable resistances would have been lower and our tests would probably have found no audible differences between the three cables. This project was unable to validate the sonic benefits claimed for exotic speaker cables over common 16-gauge zip cord. We can only conclude, therefore, that there is little advantage besides pride of ownership in using these thick, expensive wires"
That was published in Stereo Review.
 
G

greggp2

Senior Audioholic
Have someone else switch the wires so you don't know which is which and see if you can tell the difference.

Since you don't seem to have read the linked info, I will quote a point of interest here:



That was published in Stereo Review.
Unfortunately, this is pretty true. I just did a DBS about 3 weeks ago between my Audioquest Rockefeller cables, which retail for $100/ft and $30 Monster cable. The only difference was the gauge, where the Monster was 16 gauge and the Audioquest was 12. The Audioquest maintained a more consistent sound level that was only measurable on an SPL meter, but was virtually inaudible. Had I used the same gauge wire, there would be no difference. And I have pretty decent speakers and electronics.

Bottom line, save your money on cables and use it to buy better speakers or electronics...
 
Thaedium

Thaedium

Audioholic
:rolleyes:Say what you will about Monster cable but I think it so :cool: to tell all my buddies that I wouldn't run anything but MC:).

;)
I find it much more "cool" to explain to my buddies that I purchased my cables from Blue Jean's and I saved a tonne of cash. I then get more enjoyment by explaining to them that I also contributed towards supporting North American jobs by doing so, and that I have much more pride of ownership because I also terminated and dressed the lines myself. But hey, thats just me.

Regardless, if your on this website then I implore and encourage people to read the multiple reviews and tests conducted here on speaker wire. As has been stated before, there is no mystical sciences that contribute to a "better sounding wire"; only real applied science in the form of ohms law and resistances. That said, purchase any product that is appropriate for the job and you will be able to hear the difference over a product that was not intended for that job.

Further, no listening test conducted by an individual without the proper procedures in place can truly be called a double-blind, or a truly unbiased test. The fact remains, that if you change the wires yourself, and if you don't level match, then you will have altered your perception based on a number of proven psychological conditions; all of which are unrelated to your perception of hearing. In which case, you have amusingly enough only fooled yourself.

My only gripe with people fooling themselves into believing that cables such as Monsters are the be-all-end-all product is that more often then not they come to websites such as these and tout the party line for that company, and they are spreading conjecture as gosspel. Simply put, its unacceptable.
 
H

Highbar

Senior Audioholic
Man I knew I should have check the site today before I went to work:(.... I always miss out on the good threads. As far as MC goes, I've had the same issues as everyone else. Connectors fit way to tight and seem to always be too big, they seem to push the jacks apart on the equipment which can never be good. As far as Monoprice, I love them. I wont go anywhere else now that I've found them. Great cables at an incredible price. :D
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
... I haven't reviewed the exact engineering details, but I know it works to help prevent image smear in the signal; call it distortion and reduced clarity.
You mean Monster has engineering behind their cables? LOL
They have marketing and snake oil claims. That what those marketeers are great at, imagining things up:D

Protect their product? From whom? A bunch of kids skiing? Folks selling old clothing?, folks having miniature golf places? Monster cars? LOL Give me a break. They are a bunch of predators and delusion of grandeur thinking that Monster is some sort of proriatery famous name like Xerox?
Good try.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I stuck my head right in front of the speakers and compared the sound from each repeatedly, to make sure I was not imagining a difference. I tested 12 gauge zipcord and 10 gauge solid wire also. This was at very modest sound level, so maybe it all changes at high volume levels?
No, nothing like that. Your imagination and most everyone else, has a mind of its own, unless you do proper DBT protocol testing;):D
 
F

fractile

Junior Audioholic
I find it much more "cool" to explain to my buddies that I purchased my cables from Blue Jean's and I saved a tonne of cash. I then get more enjoyment by explaining to them that I also contributed towards supporting North American jobs by doing so, and that I have much more pride of ownership because I also terminated and dressed the lines myself. But hey, thats just me.

Regardless, if your on this website then I implore and encourage people to read the multiple reviews and tests conducted here on speaker wire. As has been stated before, there is no mystical sciences that contribute to a "better sounding wire"; only real applied science in the form of ohms law and resistances. That said, purchase any product that is appropriate for the job and you will be able to hear the difference over a product that was not intended for that job.

Further, no listening test conducted by an individual without the proper procedures in place can truly be called a double-blind, or a truly unbiased test. The fact remains, that if you change the wires yourself, and if you don't level match, then you will have altered your perception based on a number of proven psychological conditions; all of which are unrelated to your perception of hearing. In which case, you have amusingly enough only fooled yourself.

My only gripe with people fooling themselves into believing that cables such as Monsters are the be-all-end-all product is that more often then not they come to websites such as these and tout the party line for that company, and they are spreading conjecture as gosspel. Simply put, its unacceptable.
It's good for everyone to be aware of all the pitfalls with both physical equipment variables and psychological expectation. Having golden ears has its flipside, too...

I don't have any fancy test gear like a smear meter, but I do have on delivery a Behringer DEQ2496 which has 61-band real-time FFT analysis and SPL metering. This might give some objective comparison of frequency response and sound-level output variation between different wires, by connecting a mic in front of the speakers. If nothing else it'll give me some practice using the new gear.
 
K

k9jdk

Audiophyte
Monoprice and Bluejeans for me. You may want to peek at the Monster Vs Bluejeans articles on Bluejeans's web site. It makes for interesting reading.

And my thanks for all the neat links in this thread. I really enjoyed reading the McIntosh story.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Read this:
http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/

Regular RG-9 or RG6 will do what you want. You don't need anything that's "Super Fast", "Super Transparent" or any of that marketing garbage. You need decent cable with proper terminations.

Sorry if this was covered but I posted it without realizing that I was logged out, so what I saw was only the first post.

IMO, if someone gets all gooey because they have, know someone who has or wants to get some special kind of cabling, they need to get a grip. Cabling exists to send voltage and current from one circuit or device to another with the least possible loss or change to that signal. Nothing more, nothing less. Some companies have attached some mystique to it, but there really is only one reason to do that- it sells more of that product without it necessarily being better.
 
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Geno

Geno

Senior Audioholic
You mean Monster has engineering behind their cables? LOL
They have marketing and snake oil claims. That what those marketeers are great at, imagining things up:D

Protect their product? From whom? A bunch of kids skiing? Folks selling old clothing?, folks having miniature golf places? Monster cars? LOL Give me a break. They are a bunch of predators and delusion of grandeur thinking that Monster is some sort of proriatery famous name like Xerox?
Good try.
You mean to tell me that "Magnetic Flux Tubes" is just a bunch of malarky? Sheesh, next thing you'll be telling us that Star Wars wasn't real...:rolleyes:
 
F

fractile

Junior Audioholic
Sorry, when i listen to a source with good vocal or some complexity, i can hear distortion at the edges. It jumps out when I compare the two wires. This is not conclusive, I'll continue listening tests. does intermodulation distortion aply to speaker wire?
 

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