Monster Cable quality Cable without the "monster price tage" ???

[pzaur]

Sorry, when i listen to a source with good vocal or some complexity, i can hear distortion at the edges. It jumps out when I compare the two wires. This is not conclusive, I'll continue listening tests. does intermodulation distortion aply to speaker wire?

Do you even know what you're talking about? Lots of big words...

-pat

 

[fractile]

Do you even know what you're talking about? Lots of big words...

-pat

I probably don't Know what I'm talking About. Some of you have a decade or more hi-fi experience. I haven't worked with the hi-fi side of audio since the 70's; until 6 months ago when I started building this surround system.
Call it the exhuberance of a nubi.

 

[highfigh]

By "edges", are you referring to the beginning and end of a particular note or sound? That kind of thing should be visible on an oscilloscope- do you have access to one? Use Audacity software (or some other source that has square wave output capability) to start at a low SPL and gradually increase it until you can see/hear the distortion. It could be a level matching/setting issue and/or clipping.

 

[fractile]

By "edges", are you referring to the beginning and end of a particular note or sound? That kind of thing should be visible on an oscilloscope- do you have access to one? Use Audacity software (or some other source that has square wave output capability) to start at a low SPL and gradually increase it until you can see/hear the distortion. It could be a level matching/setting issue and/or clipping.

By edges I mean more the upper mid and high frequencies where the detail is. I have a pocket scope; not enough resolution for much. Recommend one?
Thanks for the input.

 

[mtrycrafts]

You mean to tell me that "Magnetic Flux Tubes" is just a bunch of malarky? Sheesh, next thing you'll be telling us that Star Wars wasn't real...

I don't think I will do that. I know reality when I see it

 

[mtrycrafts]

Sorry, when i listen to a source with good vocal or some complexity, i can hear distortion at the edges. It jumps out when I compare the two wires. This is not conclusive, I'll continue listening tests. does intermodulation distortion aply to speaker wire?

No need to be sorry. We all have imaginations, until we have to sit down and demonstrate that it is real, or not.

 

[cl35m]

I use 10 ga romex solid core copper. It's hard to work with but I've gotten good at it

 

[Thaedium]

Sorry, when i listen to a source with good vocal or some complexity, i can hear distortion at the edges. It jumps out when I compare the two wires. This is not conclusive, I'll continue listening tests. does intermodulation distortion aply to speaker wire?

Regarding intermodulation distortion question you have; not likely. At least not unless there is something glaringly wrong with your wires and some other source. The only way for intermodulation noise to be occuring is from when one frequency interferes with another frequency; like listening to your radio in your car and you pass a radio tower and you hear another station break through or even overlap. There is also such a thing as passive intermodulation, which can occur in passive components. Nonetheless, you would need signal amplitude much higher then what you are dealing with for this to be occurring in speaker cables.

In any case, it is likely that you were refering to harmonic distortion. If you are hearing some harmonic distortion when you switch cables it is unlikely the fault of a "less engineered" cable (or less marketed). It is likely caused from damage to the cable somewhere, and quite possibly not visible to yourself. If the cable is damaged, then you can get reflections which can have a number of other effects.

Highfigh said it best;

IMO, if someone gets all gooey because they have, know someone who has or wants to get some special kind of cabling, they need to get a grip. Cabling exists to send voltage and current from one circuit or device to another with the least possible loss or change to that signal. Nothing more, nothing less. Some companies have attached some mystique to it, but there really is only one reason to do that- it sells more of that product without it necessarily being better.

 

[fractile]

B&K 2120 20MHz dual-trace oscilloscope ordered

By "edges", are you referring to the beginning and end of a particular note or sound? That kind of thing should be visible on an oscilloscope- do you have access to one? Use Audacity software (or some other source that has square wave output capability) to start at a low SPL and gradually increase it until you can see/hear the distortion. It could be a level matching/setting issue and/or clipping.

I took your recommendation and found that (above) B&K (used) on ebay for $80 +shpg&tax. It'll be great having that visual feedback ;-)
It's one of those old-timey analog scopes with a crt screen.

 

[Seth=L]

The crappiest thing about Monster is their higher end cables have such tight terminations I feel like I am going to break my equipment when I am connecting or disconnecting them.

 

[lsiberian]

I find it much more "cool" to explain to my buddies that I purchased my cables from Blue Jean's and I saved a tonne of cash. I then get more enjoyment by explaining to them that I also contributed towards supporting North American jobs by doing so, and that I have much more pride of ownership because I also terminated and dressed the lines myself. But hey, thats just me.

Regardless, if your on this website then I implore and encourage people to read the multiple reviews and tests conducted here on speaker wire. As has been stated before, there is no mystical sciences that contribute to a "better sounding wire"; only real applied science in the form of ohms law and resistances. That said, purchase any product that is appropriate for the job and you will be able to hear the difference over a product that was not intended for that job.

Further, no listening test conducted by an individual without the proper procedures in place can truly be called a double-blind, or a truly unbiased test. The fact remains, that if you change the wires yourself, and if you don't level match, then you will have altered your perception based on a number of proven psychological conditions; all of which are unrelated to your perception of hearing. In which case, you have amusingly enough only fooled yourself.

My only gripe with people fooling themselves into believing that cables such as Monsters are the be-all-end-all product is that more often then not they come to websites such as these and tout the party line for that company, and they are spreading conjecture as gosspel. Simply put, its unacceptable.

I did a non blind listening test and have extremely sensitive ears. I couldn't tell the difference between the monster crap(it's a pain to terminate with the cheap plastic put in to cut manufacturing costs.) And the 16 gauge I bought. The 16 gauge was easier to strip and terminate. There was no audible difference in sound and I was running my mains off the long wires.

Not to mention the monster wire had trouble following the gauge standards.

 

[lsiberian]

I probably don't Know what I'm talking About. Some of you have a decade or more hi-fi experience. I haven't worked with the hi-fi side of audio since the 70's; until 6 months ago when I started building this surround system.
Call it the exhuberance of a nubi.

I think you don't understand what a speaker is.

It is essentially a variable resistor on an electric circuit.

That means you only need a wire with low resistance. audible difference requires significant resistance in the wire run. So as long as you aren't running bad wire you will hear no difference.

Your problem is that you are trying to analyze this with your ears and are focusing on what you perceive to be differences.

If you were just listening for pleasure then you wouldn't notice or even care in most cases. You need to be reconditioned to reason not perception on this. You have essentially conditioned yourself to hear certain things from certain wires.

IOTW all this is in your head.

You wouldn't put monster cable on a light bulb would you? I doubt it shines brighter. In the same way a speaker won't sound better with different cable.

FYI since you have the DCX2496 none of this matters. You can eq your entire system to have a nearly flat room response. I suggest you play with that instead.

 

[bandphan]

Im just waiting for all the manufactures to start recommending high end cables because their gear cant faithfully reproduce the Audio signal before it arrives to the speaker

 

[fractile]

I think you don't understand what a speaker is.

It is essentially a variable resistor on an electric circuit.

That means you only need a wire with low resistance. audible difference requires significant resistance in the wire run. So as long as you aren't running bad wire you will hear no difference.

Your problem is that you are trying to analyze this with your ears and are focusing on what you perceive to be differences.

If you were just listening for pleasure then you wouldn't notice or even care in most cases. You need to be reconditioned to reason not perception on this. You have essentially conditioned yourself to hear certain things from certain wires.

IOTW all this is in your head.

You wouldn't put monster cable on a light bulb would you? I doubt it shines brighter. In the same way a speaker won't sound better with different cable.

FYI since you have the DCX2496 none of this matters. You can eq your entire system to have a nearly flat room response. I suggest you play with that instead.

I'm not totally listening just for pleasure. The attempt is to build a reference system to be as neutral as possible within a limited budget/space, for audio production.

One _DEQ2496_ can help get a handle on the situation, but I think I'd need 4 of them to eq 8 speakers, assuming I can loop them into the Marantz SR8002.

I admit I need a lot more listening experience before jumping to crazy conclusions.

 

[markw]

Define "neutral"

I'm not totally listening just for pleasure. The attempt is to build a reference system to be as neutral as possible within a limited budget/space, for audio production.

Two things to keep in mind here.

1) Neutral is what the recording engineer deems it to be. That is to say, it's his "preference" as to what sounds best.

2) Odds are that if you actually managed to get a system that measured flat from 20 - 20khz with test tones in your room, you'll hate the sound.

Not that it means anything, but I've been playing with this stuff since the early 60's, both asa hobbiest and in and out of sales over the years. But, I'm always willing to learn if what's being thrown down makes sense.

 

[j_garcia]

Let me put it to you this way: in the grand scheme of things that influence the sound in your system, speaker wire has the LEAST effect on your overall sound, providing it is of sufficient AWG. Repositioning your speakers will have a larger affect on the resulting sound than any speaker wire.

 

[fractile]

Do these speakers make me sound flat?

Two things to keep in mind here.

1) Neutral is what the recording engineer deems it to be. That is to say, it's his "preference" as to what sounds best.

2) Odds are that if you actually managed to get a system that measured flat from 20 - 20khz with test tones in your room, you'll hate the sound.

Not that it means anything, but I've been playing with this stuff since the early 60's, both asa hobbiest and in and out of sales over the years. But, I'm always willing to learn if what's being thrown down makes sense.

I agree that flat can be annoying if the source is mixed 'wrong'. And I would like to have a quick option to 'fix' it sometimes. However, my quest to achieve a somewhat flat system is to be _able_ to tell the difference between the mix and the system.

 

[markw]

Well now, hold on there, podner.

I agree that flat can be annoying if the source is mixed 'wrong'.

Define "wrong".

Remember, the final mix reflects the preferences of the recording/mixdown people and sometimes even the performers themselves. Therefore, it's never "wrong"

You may not like it, but that doesn't make it wrong.

 

[fractile]

Sometimes it's wrong in the bad sense

Define "wrong".

Remember, the final mix reflects the preferences of the recording/mixdown people and sometimes even the performers themselves. Therefore, it's never "wrong"

You may not like it, but that doesn't make it wrong.

I did put it in 'quotes'. However, that is a mixed bag, considering all the music productions that have been done in different conditions and with differing capabilities of the recording and mastering engineers. In that lght, some productions are actually 'bad'.

 

[Swerd]

One DEQ2496 can help get a handle on the situation...

I admit I need a lot more listening experience before jumping to crazy conclusions.

A digital parametric equalizer like the DEQ2496 is a very potent tool. When used appropriately, it can smooth out the unnatural sounding bass response caused by unfortunate artifacts of reflected sound from the walls, ceiling and floor of your listening room. When used inappropriately, it can suck the life out of your speakers.

No speaker has perfectly flat frequency response. These deviations in frequency response contribute to each speaker's characteristic sound. This is why one speaker might be preferred over another. When a speaker is put into a room with walls, floor and a ceiling, reflected sounds from these boundaries can cancel or reinforce one another further altering the frequency response.

At higher frequencies, hundreds of small peaks and dips can be measured in the frequency response. Attempts to remove all these small deviations would result in colorations to the sound that may not be desirable. The characteristic sound that made a particular speaker attractive could be completely lost. Even if the hundreds of small peaks and dips would be adjusted, it would only be correct for a single position in the room. Moving your head just a few inches would require a completely different set of corrections. Resist the urge to equalize these frequencies.

At low frequencies (below about 300 Hz), the picture is different. There are fewer peaks and dips, but they are much more dramatic. The peaks and dips persist over a much larger portion of the listening area. Dips can't be corrected electronically. Putting out more power at the dip frequency can't help. If the original sound wave from the speaker and reflected waves coming from room boundaries cancel each other, they will cancel at 1 watt or 1000 watts. If you have major dips in the frequency response you can try repositioning your speakers, particularly the subwoofer. Fortunately, dips in the bass response are typically not that noticeable. When an instrument plays that particular frequency, that bass tone may be lost, but the higher harmonics of the instruments tone are still there. To some degree, your brain fills in the missing information.

The situation is different for large low-frequency peaks. These peaks are what tend to make windows and doors vibrate, shake knick-knacks off of shelves, and result in an overall muddy sound to the bass. Fortunately, this CAN be remedied electronically without drastically altering the characteristic sound of your speakers. Typically a room will have 3 large peaks due to added reflections coming from the front/back walls, left/right walls, and the floor/ceiling. Usually, depending on room dimensions, these peaks occur below approximately 300 Hz.

With equalizers, less is more. Limit your use of the equalizer to lowering the largest bass peaks that typically occur below approximately 300 Hz, and you will likely have good results.