Official Yamaha RX-Z7 Receiver Review Thread

[Lordoftherings]

DVC--> Digital Volume Control

Cut and paste error fixed. Thanks.

I spent extensive time sonically comparing the Z7 with the SC-07. I much preferred the Z7 b/c the amps sounded far more composed and unstrained at high listening levels with my 4 ohm speakers. The SC-07 subjectively had a bit more punch in the bass but when running powered subs in your system, its a moot point. Considering better multi room features, network streaming and DSP processing, the RX-Z7 is the clear winner to me. Plus I was able to really crank it loud in my 6,000cuft room while the SC-07 reached max volume and wouldnt go any louder for me due to the volume scaling issue that I discovered plaques some products such as the Denon AVP, Onkyo receivers, and the Pioneer. The Yamaha doesn't have this problem. In most cases people may not notice this unless they play sources recorded at much lower levels like I tend to at times (HD DVD, older Dire Straits, CDs, etc).

Could you please elaborate on the volume scaling characteristic differences
between Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo and Pioneer receivers.
This is a very interesting point that you are making, I am of great technical
curiosity as the volume control differences is concern. If by any chance; would you
happen to know the company brand & serial number of the DVC, in each of these receiver companies? I believe Yamaha is using his own made DVC, and
Onkyo is using the top-of-the-line Cirrus Digital Volume Control, the CS3318
(8-channel DVC).
If you have some good information on this subject, or if you have some
references to provide, I will be much obliged.

Bob

 

[Lordoftherings]

Manual reading

Guys;

Yamaha just called me and said the FW fix for the HDMI issue will be on their site at the beginning of March. This will also include another upgrade feature to be announced then.

They also told me I could access the other zones remotely via my laptop so I will be testing that and adding a review addendum. I guess next time I should read the manual more carefully


Updates
I added a writeup about the Web Control feature on this page:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/rx-z7-7.1/rx-z7-audio-processing-configuaration

It does take time, and pause for understanding (in particular with newer A/V receivers, like Yamaha's and Denon's), but at the end; it's always worth it.
(About reading the manual more carefully)

I am reading the review right now. Oooooouuu! Ecstatically educational, informative
and invigorating.

 

[Seraphim]

Crossover query

Hi Gene, I was interested in this query made by Quenthal. Is he correct in how he has surmised the crossover arrangement, or is there some bass lost by setting the surrounds to a higher crossover than the fronts?


I would assume subwoofer crossover would be highest setting used in different speaker groups. At least I think it would be most logical choice.

For example if I were to use 60Hz for main speakers, 80hz for center and 100Hz for surrounds and rears, subwoofer would produce the sum of LFE, <60Hz from mains, <80Hz from center and <100Hz from surrounds and rears, not just LFE and <60Hz from all speakers..?

 

[gene]

Hi Gene, I was interested in this query made by Quenthal. Is he correct in how he has surmised the crossover arrangement, or is there some bass lost by setting the surrounds to a higher crossover than the fronts?


I would assume subwoofer crossover would be highest setting used in different speaker groups. At least I think it would be most logical choice.

For example if I were to use 60Hz for main speakers, 80hz for center and 100Hz for surrounds and rears, subwoofer would produce the sum of LFE, <60Hz from mains, <80Hz from center and <100Hz from surrounds and rears, not just LFE and <60Hz from all speakers..?

My comments were mostly pertaining to 2CH sources played back in PLIIX Music/Movie mode. In that case the sub crossover is based on whatever the main speakers are set to. Thus if the mains are set to 60Hz and the rears to 100Hz than the bass crossed over from 60-100Hz of the rears wont be recombined into the sub. Is this a big deal? Not really since its a 2CH source and the bass is derived from the main channels anyways.

For discrete 5.1 sources, I am fairly sure it will recombine correctly to the sub but I didn't get a chance to test it. Audio Precision is sending me their new 8CH HDMI Audio Analyzer which will make this type of testing a breeze to do and I will be looking at it in more detail in the future.

I do however suggest keeping xovers between channel groups no more than 20-30Hz difference. I found this works best in PLIIx mode which I use almost extensively for 2CH sources.

 

[gene]

Could you please elaborate on the volume scaling characteristic differences
between Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo and Pioneer receivers.
This is a very interesting point that you are making, I am of great technical
curiosity as the volume control differences is concern. If by any chance; would you
happen to know the company brand & serial number of the DVC, in each of these receiver companies? I believe Yamaha is using his own made DVC, and
Onkyo is using the top-of-the-line Cirrus Digital Volume Control, the CS3318
(8-channel DVC).
If you have some good information on this subject, or if you have some
references to provide, I will be much obliged.

Bob

I don't have all of the part#s that are affected by this but I do know that the latest generation Denon, Pioneer and Onkyo receivers have this issue. Check out my Denon AVP Review where I go into great detail about it. Manufacturers haven't been forthcoming to me about it but I did make Denon fully aware of this. Onkyo is a bit more cunning as they will allow you to keep turning up the volume but it just stops getting louder

 

[gene]

Macrovision issue?

Attention all Z7 owners;

If you can do me a favor and set your DVD player to 480i via HDMI and let your Z7 doing the scaling to 1080p, let me know if you occasionally get no picture when you first put a DVD into your player and try to navigate the DVD setup menu or when you select DTS and the DTS logo and sound come on right before a movie starts. I am experiencing this here but would like confirmation from others. thanks.

 

[Lordoftherings]

I don't have all of the part#s that are affected by this but I do know that the latest generation Denon, Pioneer and Onkyo receivers have this issue. Check out my Denon AVP Review where I go into great detail about it. Manufacturers haven't been forthcoming to me about it but I did make Denon fully aware of this. Onkyo is a bit more cunning as they will allow you to keep turning up the volume but it just stops getting louder

Thank you,
I already started reading that review, now I'm going to finish it.
I feel a bit let down by Onkyo implementation, should I be? I was under
the impression that they were using a top-notch digital volume control!

Bob

 

[fresno1232001]

The Z7 heat issue.

Gene- The ONLY qualm I have about the RX-Z7 after reading your review is the heat issue you mention. The Onkyos have the same problem, with people even reporting fires! That's all I need- to lose my house to a "receiver fire!"

I have been very interested in the Pio SC-07 but one owner says compared to his Pio VSX-49 receiver, his "is lacking in fullness". I don't notice you saying the Z7 lacks in fullness. I don't mind that the Z7 costs more than the 07, I'm happy to pay for better SQ.

Would you say that the Z7 has noticably better SQ than the Pio 07? This is important to me. I don't need to run sound in other rooms of the house. The one huge consideration for me is SQ.

Re the heat the Z7 puts out, if one had it on a little table, outside of a rack or AV stand, and maybe put one of those little AV fans on the top of it, would that take care of the issue? Would the Z7 make a room significantly warmer? My room is 16' X 21', opening into a kitchen and entry way at one end, with a 12' vaulted ceiling. I live in Fresno, Ca., and it gets hot here some days June through Sept. I usually don't need A/C until 4 PM, and I'd hate to need it earlier. Is the heat issue one of heating up one's room or is it just that one should not, as you say, put the unit in a rack without adequate space around it?

Is the Z7 "glorious sounding?" How would you compare it with the mighty Pio 59? Real bottom line for me: Does it sound better than the Pio. SC-07? If you could have either one for free, which one would you choose?

Finally, I'm not sure if you gave the WxHxD dimensions in your review. I need those.

Thanks for a good review. Fresno

I would also like to know if the RX-Z option of shutting the amp off makes it perform as a better pre-pro compared to the other two.

If nothing else, I am thinking the unit would draw less voltage. Can you check that too? Please, can ya?

 

[cdub]

My comments were mostly pertaining to 2CH sources played back in PLIIX Music/Movie mode. In that case the sub crossover is based on whatever the main speakers are set to. Thus if the mains are set to 60Hz and the rears to 100Hz than the bass crossed over from 60-100Hz of the rears wont be recombined into the sub. Is this a big deal? Not really since its a 2CH source and the bass is derived from the main channels anyways.

For discrete 5.1 sources, I am fairly sure it will recombine correctly to the sub but I didn't get a chance to test it. Audio Precision is sending me their new 8CH HDMI Audio Analyzer which will make this type of testing a breeze to do and I will be looking at it in more detail in the future.

I do however suggest keeping xovers between channel groups no more than 20-30Hz difference. I found this works best in PLIIx mode which I use almost extensively for 2CH sources.

First off thanks for the great review, as a one time nervous Z7 owner, this was the review I wanted to see.

When you say to keep the channel groups no more 20-30Hz difference, are you saying that all channel groups should be no more than 20-30z apart such that if mains are @ 60Hz, don't the center/side/rear's any higher than 80-90Hz, or if my mains are @ 60Hz, center is @ 80Hz then I could set the side/rear's @ 100Hz and still be within your recommended settings?

cw

 

[cdub]

Re the heat the Z7 puts out, if one had it on a little table, outside of a rack or AV stand, and maybe put one of those little AV fans on the top of it, would that take care of the issue? Would the Z7 make a room significantly warmer? My room is 16' X 21', opening into a kitchen and entry way at one end, with a 12' vaulted ceiling. I live in Fresno, Ca., and it gets hot here some days June through Sept. I usually don't need A/C until 4 PM, and I'd hate to need it earlier. Is the heat issue one of heating up one's room or is it just that one should not, as you say, put the unit in a rack without adequate space around it?

It runs hot under load for sure, I have listened to 2 ch music for 2+ hours at 105+ db though my 4 ohm mains, and it gets hot to the touch, warms the general vicinity of the amp, but I don't think your A/C bill will be affected by it Especially in a warm climate. I have mine alone on the top shelf of an open sided rack with ~4" clearance above and don't have any heat related issues. If you're willing to put it on an open table, you'll be fine.

Is the Z7 "glorious sounding?"

IMO yes

Finally, I'm not sure if you gave the WxHxD dimensions in your review. I need those.

17-1/8” x 7-11/16” x 17-3/8”

it's in the manual - http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=5016802&CTID=5000300&RLTID=1505&DETYP=RELATION#

on the yamaha z7 spec page - http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=5016802&CTID=5000300&ATRID=1020&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE

in gene's review - http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/rx-z7-7.1

 

[Jeepers]

Fresno, for the dimensions; check first page of the review; click on the specifications and go to the bottom.

 

[DougSmith]

Attention all Z7 owners;

If you can do me a favor and set your DVD player to 480i via HDMI and let your Z7 doing the scaling to 1080p, let me know if you occasionally get no picture when you first put a DVD into your player and try to navigate the DVD setup menu or when you select DTS and the DTS logo and sound come on right before a movie starts. I am experiencing this here but would like confirmation from others. thanks.

Tried it 5 times. Works OK. My Samsung BDP2500 won't actually output 480i over HDMI, however, only 480p (setting to 480i outputs 480i to Component video and 480p to HDMI). Maybe that might invalidate my test.

-Doug

 

[gene]

Thank you,
I already started reading that review, now I'm going to finish it.
I feel a bit let down by Onkyo implementation, should I be? I was under
the impression that they were using a top-notch digital volume control!

Bob

Its not an issue of quality. Even the Denon AVP has the same issue and thats one of the best A/V processors out there. It has to do with the enormous processes these things have to do now such as room correction, THX post processing, DPLIIx, TrueHD, etc and the VC companies simply haven't caught up yet. In most cases this won't be an issue. It was for me in my large room when listening to HD DVD's that were recorded at very low levels which I rarely even watch anymore b/c the format is dead.

 

[gene]

Gene- The ONLY qualm I have about the RX-Z7 after reading your review is the heat issue you mention. The Onkyos have the same problem, with people even reporting fires! That's all I need- to lose my house to a "receiver fire!"

I have been very interested in the Pio SC-07 but one owner says compared to his Pio VSX-49 receiver, his "is lacking in fullness". I don't notice you saying the Z7 lacks in fullness. I don't mind that the Z7 costs more than the 07, I'm happy to pay for better SQ.

Would you say that the Z7 has noticably better SQ than the Pio 07? This is important to me. I don't need to run sound in other rooms of the house. The one huge consideration for me is SQ.

Re the heat the Z7 puts out, if one had it on a little table, outside of a rack or AV stand, and maybe put one of those little AV fans on the top of it, would that take care of the issue? Would the Z7 make a room significantly warmer? My room is 16' X 21', opening into a kitchen and entry way at one end, with a 12' vaulted ceiling. I live in Fresno, Ca., and it gets hot here some days June through Sept. I usually don't need A/C until 4 PM, and I'd hate to need it earlier. Is the heat issue one of heating up one's room or is it just that one should not, as you say, put the unit in a rack without adequate space around it?

Is the Z7 "glorious sounding?" How would you compare it with the mighty Pio 59? Real bottom line for me: Does it sound better than the Pio. SC-07? If you could have either one for free, which one would you choose?

Finally, I'm not sure if you gave the WxHxD dimensions in your review. I need those.

Thanks for a good review. Fresno


Quote:
I would also like to know if the RX-Z option of shutting the amp off makes it perform as a better pre-pro compared to the other two.

If nothing else, I am thinking the unit would draw less voltage. Can you check that too? Please, can ya?

Yes the Z7 sounded better to my ears on my equipment than the SC-07. You can't even compare the feature set of the two as the Z7 is light years beyond it in that respect.

Dimensions are in the review.

Power consumption in premode and normal mode are in the review and virtually identical.

The Z7 is a fantastic pre/pro regardless if in pre mode or not. No real difference.

 

[mvp2005fan]

It runs hot under load for sure, I have listened to 2 ch music for 2+ hours at 105+ db though my 4 ohm mains, and it gets hot to the touch, warms the general vicinity of the amp, but I don't think your A/C bill will be affected by it Especially in a warm climate. I have mine alone on the top shelf of an open sided rack with ~4" clearance above and don't have any heat related issues. If you're willing to put it on an open table, you'll be fine.

Hi, cdub: Is there an exhaust fan on the unit? If so, what side of the receiver is it on? (Just clearing space for when mine shows up next week )

Gene had mentioned he never heard his unit's fan come on--does yours come on under load? If so, how loud is it?

I've had my old Pioneer Elite stuck inside an enclosed space with basically no ventilation (bad, I know), but never had problems. Hopefully my new BDI Icon stand will give the Z7 enough room to breathe...(I was finally able to post the image of my stand in my previous post )

 

[fresno1232001]

Edit to ask re LFE adj and phono stage on Z7

Gene- The ONLY qualm I have about the RX-Z7 after reading your review is the heat issue you mention. The Onkyos have the same problem, with people even reporting fires! That's all I need- to lose my house to a "receiver fire!"


Re the heat the Z7 puts out, if one had it on a little table, outside of a rack or AV stand, and maybe put one of those little AV fans on the top of it, would that take care of the issue? Would the Z7 make a room significantly warmer? My room is 16' X 21', opening into a kitchen and entry way at one end, with a 12' vaulted ceiling. I live in Fresno, Ca., and it gets hot here some days June through Sept. I usually don't need A/C until 4 PM, and I'd hate to need it earlier. Is the heat issue one of heating up one's room or is it just that one should not, as you say, put the unit in a rack without adequate space around it?


Edit- Gene: 1) Does the Z7 have a phono stage? If not, is it easy to hook a phono pre-amp to it?

Also, 2) does it allow one or more dB adjustments for the LFE bug? I think you said in your review of the Pio SC-07 that it had ONE adjustment for LFE- a 10 dB adjustment, if I recall, and I think you said that that was adequate.

Also, 3) please comment a little more about the heat. I just found a review you did of the RX-Z9 on July 3, 2004 in which you said "Runs extremely hot to the touch". Is the Z7 just as bad? I guess we won't know if that is a fire hazard until consumers run them in their homes for a few years. When you review these "hot" receivers, I wish you could put a little A/V fan on the top of them and report if that substantially reduces the problem. I think these are a little flat fan you lay on the top of a receiver to draw air (hot air) out of the top vents.



Thanks for a good review. Fresno

----------

 

[cdub]

Hi, cdub: Is there an exhaust fan on the unit? If so, what side of the receiver is it on? (Just clearing space for when mine shows up next week )

Gene had mentioned he never heard his unit's fan come on--does yours come on under load? If so, how loud is it?

I've had my old Pioneer Elite stuck inside an enclosed space with basically no ventilation (bad, I know), but never had problems. Hopefully my new BDI Icon stand will give the Z7 enough room to breathe...(I was finally able to post the image of my stand in my previous post )

my z7 does not have a fan that I can see/hear, haven't taken the cover off, but I'm pretty sure there isn't one.

cw

 

[mvp2005fan]

my z7 does not have a fan that I can see/hear, haven't taken the cover off, but I'm pretty sure there isn't one.

cw

Hi, cdub: Thanks for the info.

Gene: did you also not find a fan when you were examining the unit? This would seem like a curious omission for a unit that runs this hot. Either that, or perhaps Yamaha engineers determined it didn't need a fan, and therefore, the heat of the unit was not a huge deal to them (?)

 

[gene]

I'm pretty sure there was a fan but I may be confusing it with the SC-07. I had like 3 products in at the same time. Here is a pic of the top cover off which I dont see the fan. If anyone has a new Z7 not hooked up, perhaps they can peer at the bottom cover to see if the fan is somewhere there.

I know my 2700 had a fan which you could regulate in the Advanced Setup menu. I don't see that option on this receiver though???

 

[mvp2005fan]

Hi, Gene:

The SC-07 has an exhaust fan port on the left side for sure.

When my Z7 gets here, I'll check the bottom and report back (unless someone who has theirs already beats me to it).

Thanks!