Warp's Build Thread...

[Warpdrv]

Yeah, but to get truly accurate results of SQ, you need to do a level of analysis that just is not possible at such meetings as a practical limitation. That is, realize, 'my' standard of analysis is what I mean - which is of course not what a normal DIYer would ever consider practical.

Just listening in uncontrolled situations like this is making a conclusion with too many variables in place to make a confident conclusion.

I would EQ both to the same response, then record both at near field, then later mix the recordings back with a full range signal and listen over reference phones. For the listening test portion, anyways. For real time listening analysis, you need to EQ them identically, and have a rotation turntable behind an acoustic curtain that will place each sub in the same exact space.

My primary interest is a proper set of ground plane measurements.

-Chris

Well I don't have a Harmon Rotating speaker swapping device in my house, so I guess we'll just have to do the best we can as pathetic as that may be.... I'm sure we can come to some conclusion with some general comparisons in a common room with some subjective listening... Does that make it perfect no...

But I don't think everything needs to be so freakin anal.... I can easily tell when something good sounds better then cr@p even through slight imperfections... I can sit around all day long and say my CR@P don't stink, but my farts will eventually give me away....
Think about it....

I would just drink a lot of beer and have a blast with all the subs....

There will plenty of that around.... This is Milwaukee, we have a really bad reputation to uphold here.....

 

[WmAx]

Well I don't have a Harmon Rotating speaker swapping device in my house, so I guess we'll just have to do the best we can as pathetic as that may be.... I'm sure we can come to some conclusion with some general comparisons in a common room with some subjective listening... Does that make it perfect no...

But I don't think everything needs to be so freakin anal.... I can easily tell when something good sounds better then cr@p even through slight imperfections... I can sit around all day long and say my CR@P don't stink, but my farts will eventually give me away....
Think about it....

I just hope that you can understand that this is MY standard, and I recognize that it's not easy or practical for others, and I was specific as to that fact.

But, would I be the WmAx that everyone has come to know without addressing the variables to this degree?

-Chris

 

[Warpdrv]

I just hope that you can understand that this is MY standard, and I recognize that it's not easy or practical for others, and I was specific as to that fact.

But, would I be the WmAx that everyone has come to know without addressing the variables to this degree?

-Chris

Forgot to put a smiley in my post for my sarcastic tone....



We do have intentions for close mic REW measurements of all the drivers, so along with listening comparisons, that should provide some more substantial info as well....

 

[Warpdrv]

And the upgrades begin.... Got my first 2 LMS's on Friday, Michael Hurd was totally gracious to transport them down to me from canada !! Can't say enough about the integrity of Mike - a great man indeed !!!! And no slouch in the knowledge of subs, he has been very helpful... Thanks Mike

3 LMS's are on pre-order. and will take the place of the drivers in my great room, I will be replacing my F112 in my 1800^3 bedroom with one of these LMS's

Had an issue with one of my Crest 8002 Amps, one of the fans went out and I think overheated one channel - getting a red light on one channel... Hoping it blew a fuse I can just replace I haven't looked into it any further at this point, but its on my list of things to do, but right now I'm running 2 LMS's, 1 TC3000 on my 3 crest amps, and a TC2000 behind the LP off a EP2500.... things sound fantastic in here at this point... better tighter and cleaner then they every have - with no signs of distress at all...

I'll be looking for a DCX 2496 from Mikes suggestion to further improve proper delay, phase, EQ and basic individual driver control...

Here are a few crappy Iphone pics for ya... Thought you all would like to see, they dropped right in the Mal-X boxes, though my cutout was a little too tight for the rubber gasket, I'll have to route it a touch bigger, that should be fun...

Brandon/Nuance left - Mike Hurd on the right...

Warp

 

[lsiberian]

Nice to see you getting stuff done.

 

[Warpdrv]

Nice to see you getting stuff done.

Thanks guys... getting ones hands on LMS's has been almost an insurmountable task.... Monsters indeed

 

[adk highlander]

Great stuff Warp. I've been keeping tabs on your SVS AS-EQ1 thread over at AVS and read you were waiting for these. When you get a chance please post some more pics of the drivers. Lets the rest of us dream.

 

[mike c]

i hope you did a side by side pic with the mal-x's!

 

[Warpdrv]

Great stuff Warp. I've been keeping tabs on your SVS AS-EQ1 thread over at AVS and read you were waiting for these. When you get a chance please post some more pics of the drivers. Lets the rest of us dream.

I won't be ordering one of those, as I have 4 drivers interacting in my room which I will work with the Behringer DCX 2496 and then my Anthem D2v's ARC will work its magic to smooth things out from top to bottom...

Brandon/Nuance and I measured my room after ARC did its thing in here, and we were both blown away by how flat my room measured in multiple spots from top to bottom... I was thrilled with the performance....

i hope you did a side by side pic with the mal-x's!

I will post some real side by side pics with a real camera when I get a chance Mike...

Got a Packer / Vikings game to watch right now..

 

[WmAx]

You are putting insane investment into buying the a large number of the best subwoofer drivers in the world (based on acoustic tests and objective motor analysis).

So when will you be getting mains to match the quality of the subs?

Perhaps B&W 802D?

-Chris

 

[lsiberian]

You are putting insane investment into buying the a large number of the best subwoofer drivers in the world (based on acoustic tests and objective motor analysis).

So when will you be getting mains to match the quality of the subs?

Perhaps B&W 802D?

-Chris

I think only a custom design would be worthy of Warp's detail.

 

[Matt34]

And the upgrades begin.... Got my first 2 LMS's on Friday, Michael Hurd was totally gracious to transport them down to me from canada !! Can't say enough about the integrity of Mike - a great man indeed !!!! And no slouch in the knowledge of subs, he has been very helpful... Thanks Mike

3 LMS's are on pre-order. and will take the place of the drivers in my great room, I will be replacing my F112 in my 1800^3 bedroom with one of these LMS's

Had an issue with one of my Crest 8002 Amps, one of the fans went out and I think overheated one channel - getting a red light on one channel... Hoping it blew a fuse I can just replace I haven't looked into it any further at this point, but its on my list of things to do, but right now I'm running 2 LMS's, 1 TC3000 on my 3 crest amps, and a TC2000 behind the LP off a EP2500.... things sound fantastic in here at this point... better tighter and cleaner then they every have - with no signs of distress at all...

I'll be looking for a DCX 2496 from Mikes suggestion to further improve proper delay, phase, EQ and basic individual driver control...

Here are a few crappy Iphone pics for ya... Thought you all would like to see, they dropped right in the Mal-X boxes, though my cutout was a little too tight for the rubber gasket, I'll have to route it a touch bigger, that should be fun...

Warp

I never get tired of seeing those monster subs and with the power you have going to them I can only imagine what they sound like, even in a huge room such as yours.

 

[Warpdrv]

You are putting insane investment into buying the a large number of the best subwoofer drivers in the world (based on acoustic tests and objective motor analysis).

So when will you be getting mains to match the quality of the subs?

Perhaps B&W 802D?

-Chris

Hey Chris, I love sealed subs and obviously I need some ridiculous excursion for this stupid big room, so the LMS's were the only way to go in this situation - its a compromise for an environment at best, but I'll be here for a long time, so I don't mind investing in quality bass.
Most def. an upgrade for my mains will be in order... 802D's would be pretty impressive, too bad my layout couldn't accommodate their large nature or weight.. It will probably be in the realm of Sig S8's....

I think only a custom design would be worthy of Warp's detail.

I wouldn't presume to think I could ever build a quality speaker, just far too complicated for me - compared to building the simple design of a sub, and sealed is so easy, nothing that needs really alot of detail... The boxes are nice, and I'll still be veneering them and putting granite on top to finish.

I never get tired of seeing those monster subs and with the power you have going to them I can only imagine what they sound like, even in a huge room such as yours.

The TC drivers really sound great best I have heard - just so tight and controlled - no compromise in build quality.

 

[lsiberian]

I wouldn't presume to think I could ever build a quality speaker, just far too complicated for me - compared to building the simple design of a sub, and sealed is so easy, nothing that needs really alot of detail... The boxes are nice, and I'll still be veneering them and putting granite on top to finish.

It's complex for sure. Constraint layering paired with a dense bracing matrix and dampening. I don't know if I'll ever complete my project for this.

 

[WmAx]

I think only a custom design would be worthy of Warp's detail.

I can not think of any custom DIY jobs posted on DIY forums that are a match to the 802D. There is a guy I know of that does this level of quality - but it's a professional custom builder, not a DIYer per say....

-Chris

 

[lsiberian]

I can not think of any custom DIY jobs posted on DIY forums that are a match to the 802D. There is a guy I know of that does this level of quality - but it's a professional custom builder, not a DIYer per say....

-Chris

7k is a lot of money for a speaker especially on a tight budget. I don't think I could ever spend that much on a speaker.

Still if it's anything like the 705 series. I'd be in heaven. I love their 705 bookshelf series speakers. Listening to them was an experience I'll never forget.

 

[Warpdrv]

The 802D's are $14K a pair, and blow the 700 series away, in fact I didn't feel anything in the 700 series sounded very good to my ears at all - basically nothing under the 803D really left me with a very good impression...

I can get a significant discount on Paradigm products... I'll be paying no where near $7k... plus - I gots me a sugar mama - enough said

 

[WmAx]

Warp, one alternative is to buy used. Search for the B&W 801 Matrix Series II or Series III. These nearly match the performance of today's 802D/801D. Pricing for excellent condition is usually around $3500-$5000 in auctions. You can also find the 802N for around $5000. It is very similar to the 802D. The only difference is the tweeter; the D has a diamond tweeter and the N has a metal alloy tweeter. The D has a little bit flatter response.

Either one will work superbly with a Behringer DCX2496 to achieve nearly any sound signature that you so desire, as the upper end B&W units referenced by me in this thread have absolute inaudible cabinets and a very linear overall response.

-Chris

 

[annunaki]

Warp, one alternative is to buy used. Search for the B&W 801 Matrix Series II or Series III. These nearly match the performance of today's 802D/801D. Pricing for excellent condition is usually around $3500-$5000 in auctions. You can also find the 802N for around $5000. It is very similar to the 802D. The only difference is the tweeter; the D has a diamond tweeter and the N has a metal alloy tweeter. The D has a little bit flatter response.

Either one will work superbly with a Behringer DCX2496 to achieve nearly any sound signature that you so desire, as the upper end B&W units referenced by me in this thread have absolute inaudible cabinets and a very linear overall response.

-Chris

The 802N & 801N are fantastic speakers. I have done extensive listening to both in an acoustically treated room. I would have no reservations about having either of them. It is amazing the level of detail present when resonances are under control/inaudible.

They are (still) my reference standard.

 

[Warpdrv]

Thanks for the suggestions guys....

I have nothing but appreciation for the higher end B&W, they are just too large of a footprint for my needs and layout... its just not possible for me to put a speaker of that size/width in the place I am looking to accommodate.

The slim tower of the Sigs are more geared toward what I need for my space, though they may be a compromise in build quality for some.

Their SQ is def up to par for my negligible room..... I truly appreciate the tweeter... very much on par with some of the best ribbon tweeters I have ever heard...